EU ready to end drug prohibition

syngindub · 09-12-2010 10:29PM

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

It will be a sad day for Ireland if drugs are legalized. The very fact that they are illegal keeps many people from taking up the habit.

We are adults, and as an adult, can decide whatever it is we want to do.

Elevator · 09-12-2010 10:30PM

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

It will be a sad day for Ireland if drugs are legalized. The very fact that they are illegal keeps many people from taking up the habit.

and the gangs continue to cash in on the multi million euro business of supplying the drugs to everyone or anyone, no age restrictions, getting people into debt and then sometimes killing them over a nominal amount of money to keep up appearances!!

Wolfe Tone · 09-12-2010 10:35PM

syngindub wrote: »

We are adults, and as an adult, can decide whatever it is we want to do.

Eh, no you cant.

syngindub · 09-12-2010 10:37PM

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Eh, no you cant.

Well within reason, and certainly consuming toxic substances should be my own choice.

Elevator · 09-12-2010 10:42PM

2 words

Personal responsibility

then look after those who can't handle it, current conditions are doing nothing to stop drug trade for 40/50 years!!

the writing is well and truely on the wall like

Orando Broom · 09-12-2010 10:46PM

rockynavan wrote: »

pot calling the the kettal black.you go to any court in ireland and see how many stoners are there for smashing someones face in zero alcohol on the other hand?

I'll fight any man who says alcohol is bad.

seensensee · 09-12-2010 10:54PM

In Ireland there are too many long established powerful groups who rely on the illegality of recreational drugs as a source of lifeblood.

An end to drug prohibition in Ireland ? " It will never happen "

Elevator · 09-12-2010 11:02PM

prohibition Ireland sees many millions being spent "fighting" the war on drugs, so many depend on it remaining a criminal problem, Garda, judges, solicitors, barristers, reporters sensationising the whole thing and writing books on the back of the madness of criminal gangs, blah blah blah

if we freed up all that money we could help so many people to improve their lives here, homeless, addicts, troubled kids and teenagers, adult supports, oap support etc.

the industry is worth an absolute fortune and like it or not, until drugs are legalised and sold by the government criminal gangs will kill anyone in their way!

if the decent person buyin a small amount of their favourite drug for whatever effect is funding criminality well then the government are as much to blame as they know damn well they're talking through their asses when it comes to drug laws.

seensensee · 09-12-2010 11:14PM

.... Vintners association, pharmaceutical companies, EURAD, CAB, the church, all dead against a reduction in profit and power. They are the Establishment, They run the show and " it will never happen "

Elevator · 09-12-2010 11:18PM

seensensee wrote: »

.... Vintners association, pharmaceutical companies, EURAD, CAB, the church, all dead against a reduction in profit and power. They are the Establishment, They run the show and " it will never happen "

ahhhh I dunno bout that

there's way too much money in it!

will someone please think of the money!!

there's never been so much drugs around and available at the drop of a hat everywhere

it's time we woke up and embraced a nation of stoners

Amhran Nua · 09-12-2010 11:37PM

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

It will be a sad day for Ireland if drugs are legalized.

It will certainly be a sad day for criminal organisations north and south of the border.

Elevator wrote: »

it's time we woke up and embraced a nation of stoners

No, its not, if life isn't interesting enough for you as-is, read a book and develop that imagination. It is time we started dealing with the issue on a realistic level however.

seensensee · 09-12-2010 11:51PM

Do you ever wonder how changes to the law could be affected? Who will take a stand? We have seen some representation by occasional politicians and strong willed individuals, a few colourful marches (one day events) and eh.... that's about it so far.
There is a looooooooooooong way to go yet and I really can't see the users of recreational drugs unionising into any kind of formidable action group which would be the very least required to make the establishment reconsider their views.
Remember we are living in a country where an individual who sells cannabis can receive a longer jail sentence than an individual who is guilty of killing somebody, Ireland is closer to Texas than Texel.

How could things ever change?

Elevator · 10-12-2010 12:12AM

I've been saying for a while now that the banking crisis could be the straw to finally break the back of prohibition!!

the cash take for the governments would be through the roof and that's what it will come down to imo

drugs could be the next "bubble" in the making

I can't see it being beyond the realms of possibility, there's just so much fact around the failed drug war that it's begining to chip away all the bull and is gathering pace afaic

CorkMan · 10-12-2010 12:19AM

It would be great if Cannabis and LSD were legalised.

I would be against Cocaine, Crack, Crystal Meth, heroin etc though.

Except: For knackers, legalise crystal meth for knackers

CorkMan · 10-12-2010 01:27AM

The EU has said that it will not block any possible Member State initiative to move towards legalizing cannabis or other previously illegal plants.

The move has already been heralded by cannabis supporters as as major turning point in the Union’s legal stance on the plant.
An LCI Cork representative told Cork Student News that the event had been “almost completely ignored” by mainstream media, but said that it portended real hope for the future:

“Legalise Cannabis Ireland’s efforts have been reiterated today in the EU parliament. Finally, common sense has prevailed as personal cannabis consumption moves away from law enforcement,” he said.

“Prohibition has failed, particularly in it’s main efforts to combat drug use and supply. ENCOD estimate this as a €50bn industry. This leaves one staggering prospect. Could we take this multi billion industry away from criminals and simultaneously be-rid the state of the IMF? Two birds, one stoned.”
The hearing was organised by Member of European Parliament Michael Tremopoulos (Greens, Greece) and ENCOD, a coalition of citizens for drug policy reform, and saw contributions from several noted cannabis activists.

The pro-cannabis movement called on the European Commission at the meeting to evaluate the costs of drug prohibition in terms of public spending and the benefits that alternative policies could generate, and urged member states’ leaders to consider legalizing the drug.

http://www.corkstudentnews.com/news/eu-holds-breakthrough-discussions-on-cannabis-19786

seensensee · 10-12-2010 01:59AM

June 2009

UN Backs Drug Decriminalization In World Drug Report

In an about face, the United Nations on Wednesday lavishly praised drug decriminalization in its annual report on the state of global drug policy.

In previous years, the UN drug czar had expressed skepticism about Portugal's decriminalization, which removed criminal penalties in 2001 for personal drug possession and emphasized treatment over incarceration. The UN had suggested the policy was in violation of international drug treaties and would encourage "drug tourism".

But in its 2009 World Drug Report, the UN had little but kind words for Portugal's radical (by U.S. standards) approach. "These conditions keep drugs out of the hands of those who would avoid them under a system of full prohibition, while encouraging treatment, rather than incarceration, for users. Among those who would not welcome a summons from a police officer are tourists, and, as a result, Portugal's policy has reportedly not led to an increase in drug tourism," reads the report. "It also appears that a number of drug-related problems have decreased."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/24/un-backs-drug-decriminali_n_220013.html

So from reading this thread we can see that Global Authorities approve of the decriminalisation/legalisation of drugs.

How does that translate into Irish society? Are those who wish for a change in legislation content to wait for some sign of benevolence from the irish establishment? Do you think they care for your demands? What are your demands? Do you have any?

Despite the green light given from the UN and EU remember ...
"it will never happen"
unless you are prepared to work for it.

Elevator · 10-12-2010 11:35AM

the only reason the un and eu have turned their views on drugs is money imo

we'll sit around and do nothing

I'll open a cannabis/coffee shop in Galway and see how that fares out

Pace2008 · 10-12-2010 12:17PM

ScumLord wrote: »

That's really your only option at the moment. You can't enjoy cannabis socially any where other than at friends of like mind. If cannabis consumption was legal you could use it out socially. You could have restaurants that sold cannabis starters or vaporiser cafes. Coffeeshops in Amsterdam are sociable enough places.

Ah yeah, you'd often get a chat going with the clientele in a coffeshop or the smoking area of the hostel in which you’re staying. But they’re much quieter places than the average bar, both in terms of decibel levels and the number of patrons around, and a million miles away from the shoulder-to-shoulder, twenty-minute squeeze from bar to smoking area setup in typical commercial club in Dublin.

biko · 10-12-2010 12:21PM

EU ready to end soma prohibition

In Aldous Huxley's dystopian novel Brave New World, Soma is a popular dream-inducing, hallucinogenic drug. It provides an easy escape from the hassles of daily life and is employed by the government as a method of control through pleasure.

thebigbiffo · 10-12-2010 12:29PM

Elevator wrote: »

the only reason the un and eu have turned their views on drugs is money imo

we'll sit around and do nothing

I'll open a cannabis/coffee shop in Galway and see how that fares out

in fairness - a group of people willing to sacrifice themselves in some way would bring major attention to the issue. lets say someone did open a normal coffee shop and made it very very clear to stoners that they could smoke and distribute small amounts of weed on the premises (well, on the outside decking area for the actual smoking) - as in have an official policy of being smoker friendly. yes, the owners and clientele would be taking a risk - but only a very small one as long as an under 2 grams policy was set.

it would be very difficult to shut the place down. it would be very difficult to prosecute so many people for possession and if they tried i'm sure it would garner great attention to the issue and the ridiculousness of not allowing people to partake in smoking small amounts.

in fact i think this is essentially what happened in holland. the decision was made that prosecuting people for small amounts was pointless, a guy took a chance with the bulldog and the authorities, by extention of their non-prosecution policy, let the place go ahead and operate. it snowballed from there.

i wish i was a businessman now

Elevator · 10-12-2010 12:47PM

@ biffo ; I totally agree, it would probably take a few to sacrifice themselves for the greater good

we might really be onto something here and I can only thank my 1st jack herer of the day for the inspiration lol

what did you mean about the 2 grm being set?

seensensee · 10-12-2010 12:49PM

Elevator wrote: »

the only reason the un and eu have turned their views on drugs is money imo

we'll sit around and do nothing

I'll open a cannabis/coffee shop in Galway and see how that fares out

I'd like to support your initiative , you will need the peoples consent and commitment to stand along side you through the hard times, your coffeeshop must be supported by all the proponents of cannabis, county and nationwide, councillors and politicians who agree with your stance must come out and be heard, they now have the highest level of support through organisations that shape and govern our world.

You must not suffer persecution or prosecution as you are providing a service which is demanded by the taxpaying public, the same public who have a responsibility to ensure you succeed in you goal.

PM to me anytime.

Pace2008 · 10-12-2010 12:52PM

biko wrote: »

EU ready to end soma prohibition

In Aldous Huxley's dystopian novel Brave New World, Soma is a popular dream-inducing, hallucinogenic drug. It provides an easy escape from the hassles of daily life and is employed by the government as a method of control through pleasure.

Brave New World was an interesting one for me. I thought a general feeling of “wrongness” permeated the entire novel, but I still haven’t been able to put my finger on what exactly was wrong with a societal structure in which everyone is happy to the point of being in perpetual bliss, and unafraid of death.

I’ve often said that if a drug were synthesised that had no potential to cause adverse health effects, conservatives would still rail against it because it got you high. Maybe I share their feelings to some degree, though obviously on a much lesser level.

ScumLord · 10-12-2010 01:00PM

thebigbiffo wrote: »

in fairness - a group of people willing to sacrifice themselves in some way would bring major attention to the issue. lets say someone did open a normal coffee shop and made it very very clear to stoners that they could smoke and distribute small amounts of weed on the premises (well, on the outside decking area for the actual smoking) - as in have an official policy of being smoker friendly. yes, the owners and clientele would be taking a risk - but only a very small one as long as an under 2 grams policy was set.

it would be very difficult to shut the place down. it would be very difficult to prosecute so many people for possession and if they tried i'm sure it would garner great attention to the issue and the ridiculousness of not allowing people to partake in smoking small amounts.

in fact i think this is essentially what happened in holland. the decision was made that prosecuting people for small amounts was pointless, a guy took a chance with the bulldog and the authorities, by extention of their non-prosecution policy, let the place go ahead and operate. it snowballed from there.

i wish i was a businessman now

They tried something like this in the UK a few years ago but the police shut it down. There are many concerns with opening a place like that that don't include the law, you still have to pay all your bills and if you don't have a paper trail for your money your premisses are sunk with the tax man.

Elevator · 10-12-2010 01:11PM

ScumLord wrote: »

They tried something like this in the UK a few years ago but the police shut it down. There are many concerns with opening a place like that that don't include the law, you still have to pay all your bills and if you don't have a paper trail for your money your premisses are sunk with the tax man.

but we wouldn't be selling cannabis there, teas and coffees, munchies, decent grub, some original funky decor, nice sounds

surely the proprietor couldn't be expected to be checking what people are rolling up, when the tobacco ban came in in holland I remember the loophole was the staff couldn't be expected to smell out tobacco amongst the pure weed j's,

people could smoke away, unwind, socialise etc

we supply refreshments

Amhran Nua · 10-12-2010 01:11PM

ScumLord wrote: »

They tried something like this in the UK a few years ago but the police shut it down. There are many concerns with opening a place like that that don't include the law, you still have to pay all your bills and if you don't have a paper trail for your money your premisses are sunk with the tax man.

Yeah it wouldn't last five minutes here. What you need is to advocate the real reason why less dangerous drugs should be legalised, and thats the trail of bodies stretching from Belfast to Galway to Limerick to Cork to Dublin city centre left behind by armed and dangerous criminal gangs, and drugs are still as available as alcohol.

You do need to couple that with a serious educational effort to ensure people know that taking drugs is unwise at best. The numbers of people smoking tobacco has been reduced year on year, more of the same can be achieved readily enough.

thebigbiffo · 10-12-2010 01:15PM

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Yeah it wouldn't last five minutes here.

why?

thebigbiffo · 10-12-2010 01:18PM

ohh i just thought of the name: the canna cafe :pac:

what would be ideal is if there was a co-ordinated campaign ie. 4 open in one day, 1 each in dublin, cork, galway and waterford.

or maybe it'd be best to do it relatively quiet at first and let the acceptance of such a place build among the community?

Elevator · 10-12-2010 01:23PM

thebigbiffo wrote: »

ohh i just thought of the name: the canna cafe :pac:

what would be ideal is if there was a co-ordinated campaign ie. 4 open in one day, 1 each in dublin, cork, galway and waterford.

or maybe it'd be best to do it relatively quiet at first and let the acceptance of such a place build among the community?

I have been pondering this myself, too many open with too much fanfare and we'll have an imaginary problem on our hands of such epic proportions that joe would have to be called

we're definately onto something here!

we need honest people with absolutely nothing to do with head shops or criminality to be involved

thebigbiffo · 10-12-2010 01:33PM

Elevator wrote: »

I have been pondering this myself, too many open with too much fanfare and we'll have an imaginary problem on our hands of such epic proportions that joe would have to be called

we're definately onto something here!

we need honest people with absolutely nothing to do with head shops or criminality to be involved

i genuinely think it's one of the more realistic ways to at least force some level of decriminalisation. i dont think there'd be much appetite for closing such a place down as long as it was frequented by enough of the right people and the owner was not involved in dealing. after that, it becomes a matter of widespread knowledge that such places exist and then after that...well, we can but hope

EU ready to end drug prohibition

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