EU ready to end drug prohibition

Elevator

yes you seen it right, I cannot wait, read on

http://encod.org/info/EU-READY-TO-END-DRUG-PROHIBITION.html?sms_ss=facebook&at_xt=4cffe5ad708c21f2%2C0

cypharius

QUICK! SOMEBODY CALL JOE!

Biggins

O' good.
Something more we can slap a tax on then!
Another few million in the coffers then a year later.

Dean820

Forget the drugs... legalise the hoes, y'all.

mikom

The hearing was organised by Member of European Parliament Michael Tremopoulos (Greens, Greece) and ENCOD, a coalition of citizens for drug policy reform. It brought together the expertise of representatives of civil society -among others leading Spanish activist for legal cannabis Martin Barriuso, spokesman of the Union of Dutch Coffeeshops Marc Josemans, and Richard Cowan, former director of NORML, USA’s largest reform organisation

Oh ****..............

Duggy747

So this means I can carry my crack-pipe to work, then?

FunkZ

I was gonna clean my room until I got high
I gonna get up and find the broom but then I got high
my room is still messed up and I know why
- cause I got high
- cause I got high
- cause I got hiii-iiigh

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Duggy747 wrote: »

So this means I can carry my crack-pipe to work, then?

Of course. No more will we be unable to have a nice relaxing smoke of crack just because we're 'working'.

barrackali

Except in the case of medical use, I can't see any government in this country ever ending drug prohibition.

liah

About time this idiotic prohibition starts to come apart. This is great news, or at least, has the potential to be.

ejmaztec

barrackali wrote: »

Except in the case of medical use, I can't see any government in this country ever ending drug prohibition.

They will when they realise that being stoned is the only way that anyone living in Ireland will ride out the financial storm for the next 30 years.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

did anyone read the link?

the eu is not ready to end prohibition, they're just not going to stop it if a member state decides they want to..

thirtythirty

Dibs on distribution contracts!




Sweet. Now that I got that locked down, just gotta wait for the cash to roll in :pac:

Wazdakka

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

did anyone read the link?

the eu is not ready to end prohibition, they're just not going to stop it if a member state decides they want to..

Still a step in the right direction imo..

liah

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

did anyone read the link?

the eu is not ready to end prohibition, they're just not going to stop it if a member state decides they want to..

Exactly.

That's all it takes. Once one country actually goes ahead and legalizes it fully, it'll go like dominoes when they realize the tax benefits and the crime drops.

prinz

EU body confirms they have no role in forcing drug policy on Member States. No impact whatsoever on national legislation.

......and they say drugs have no effect on people :pac:

TheZohanS

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

did anyone read the link?

the eu is not ready to end prohibition, they're just not going to stop it if a member state decides they want to..

Pity the election is so near, if the tokers got together a political party and won a few seats on the back of it they might have been able to get a trial run on a few smoking "Coffee Shops".

prinz

liah wrote: »

Exactly.
That's all it takes. Once one country actually goes ahead and legalizes it fully, it'll go like dominoes when they realize the tax benefits and the crime drops.

What fully, exactly? You realise different EU countries already take different approaches yes? This does nothing whatsoever to alter the status quo as it is.

liah

prinz wrote: »

What fully, exactly? You realise different EU countries already take different approaches yes? This does nothing whatsoever to alter the status quo as it is.

It will help to alter the status quo in the long term, massively I believe.

The way the war against prohibition needs to be won is exposure, education and people just plain talking about drugs. This will make people talk about drugs-- the fact that the EU has basically given the go ahead is a massive step forward.

Like I said, all it's going to take is one big player of a country to legalize it and over the next 20 years or so it will be like dominoes once they realize the world isn't going to end.. or even change all that much with drugs legalized.

prinz

liah wrote: »

It will help to alter the status quo in the long term, massively I believe. The way the war against prohibition needs to be won is exposure, education and people just plain talking about drugs. This will make people talk about drugs-- the fact that the EU has basically given the go ahead is a massive step forward..

The EU hasn't given any kind of go ahead. They have reaffirmed the current position.

liah wrote: »

Like I said, all it's going to take is one big player of a country to legalize it and over the next 20 years or so it will be like dominoes once they realize the world isn't going to end.. or even change all that much with drugs legalized.

............ Again, are you talking about one drug in particular? The approach of Portugal is already different to the approach of Poland. Has there been any hint of a domino effect?

bleg

Can't read the link, not provided in Gaeilge, an official language of the EU.

liah

prinz wrote: »

The EU hasn't given any kind of go ahead. They have reaffirmed the current position.



............ Again, are you talking about one drug in particular? The approach of Portugal is already different to the approach of Poland. Has there been any hint of a domino effect?

It doesn't matter if they've given any sort of official go ahead or not changed their stance. The point is, they brought it into the news, it will drive conversation towards it now that pretty much all of Joe Public will know the official stance. Especially the bit about how much money it could generate.

It will get people thinking and it's driving the people who actually want to do something about legalization one step closer now that they know the only barrier without a doubt is their own government.

Mostly I'm talking about pot, because it's the most innocent of them and the most well-documented. I would like to see others legalized but for the sake of argument just assume I'm talking about pot, hash, and other relatively harmless (in the sense that they're certainly no worse than alcohol) drugs.

prinz

bleg wrote: »

Can't read the link, not provided in Gaeilge, an official language of the EU.

It doesn't have to be as it's not an official EU document. It's in fact an article by a lobby group from the looks of it.

Duggy747

This news isn't going to exactly open the floodgates for other countries to legalise drugs. What works in one culture won't neccessarily work in another. Anyways, the government isn't the pro-drug lobby's only barrier, there's also the anti-drug gang and other groups as well as people who would surely protest such a move. It'll be a long haul and a nightmare through endless red-tape.

The whole mullarkey with Amsterdam and it's cafes and what-not hasn't been exactly welcomed with open arms by other countries in the EU, despite the mutual agreement that it plays a huge factor in it's tourism industry. Hasn't the Dutch government been pushing to tighten up these cafes for the past few years and recently stepped it up a gear, too?

Whatever about Hash / Weed but the rest like coke / tabs / acid / etc can stay illegal, too many idiots using the stuff already.

scientific1982

All drugs should be legal.

prinz

liah wrote: »

It doesn't matter if they've given any sort of official go ahead or not changed their stance. The point is, they brought it into the news, it will drive conversation towards it now that pretty much all of Joe Public will know the official stance. Especially the bit about how much money it could generate..

I'll watch the news tonight with interest.

Procasinator

liah wrote: »

It doesn't matter if they've given any sort of official go ahead or not changed their stance. The point is, they brought it into the news, it will drive conversation towards it now that pretty much all of Joe Public will know the official stance. Especially the bit about how much money it could generate.

It will get people thinking and it's driving the people who actually want to do something about legalization one step closer now that they know the only barrier without a doubt is their own government.

Mostly I'm talking about pot, because it's the most innocent of them and the most well-documented. I would like to see others legalized but for the sake of argument just assume I'm talking about pot, hash, and other relatively harmless (in the sense that they're certainly no worse than alcohol) drugs.

To be honest, I would only expect Ireland to fall like a domino if the UK, and to a lesser extent the US made the move.

As already stated, Portugal has been very liberal with drug use for over 5 years now. This hasn't had any domino effect, despite a glowing review of the benefits of the drug reform in Portugal.

The Netherlands, on the other hand, are gradually getting stricter.

Political heads often avoid this issue because it is so controversial and with so many differing opinions. I don't expect to see this change soon, as all the EU has said is that we can make our own mind up. That much could have been assumed.

papajimsmooth

Ireland is too old fashioned and religious to ever allow this to happen. The only way drugs will be legalized in Ireland is if the EU forces us to.

Sanjuro

Duggy747 wrote: »

Whatever about Hash / Weed but the rest like coke / tabs / acid / etc can stay illegal, too many idiots using the stuff already.

Exactly. There's a demand. And where there's a demand, no matter how you try to police it, these people will find a way to get what they want, and criminals will find a way to supply it. Now, I'm not saying, drugs for some, miniature European flags for others, but regulating the supply and the taxation it would generate would make far more sense than persuing the failed drug war.

liah

I already stated it wasn't going to be instant. Things are always rocky at the beginning while things get fine-tuned and sorted out-- it's why I ballparked it at roughly 20 years or so. Currently legalization in the EU is still in its infancy with the Netherlands and Portugal, and, no offense meant to either-- neither of them are exactly the big players in the EU, and in the Netherlands it has always been restricted and not fully legalized. I don't know the actual status in Portugal.

People expecting instant change are very short-sighted; in the case of drugs things tend to get worse before they get better, but they do certainly get better. Again and as always, alcohol prohibition is a perfect example.

Dean820

We've enough dopes in this country without adding to them.

Jagle

am currently telling politicians that come to my door i wanna be able to legally smoke a planet that has a zero record for killing people while my car parked over there i can easily kill alot with, dont be afraid to talk about it, everyone,(and by that i mean most) have done or do some type of illegal drug.
honestly the biggest hurdle i see in this country with the issue, is not the backwards thinking politicians or are arseways laws, but the vintners association of ireland, big money will be spent by them to not get this thing passed as itll take people outta pubs

Dravokivich

Jagle wrote: »

am currently telling politicians that come to my door i wanna be able to legally smoke a planet ...

You got a pipe big enough for that?

prinz

We have already seen that there is a significant section of Irish society incapable of dealing with alcohol maturely despite it's long legal history. Perhaps we, as a society, should master one drug first. When we have responsible partaking of one, we may be able to manage responsible partaking in another.

prinz

Dravokivich wrote: »

You got a pipe big enough for that?

Just give me a place to stand and a fulcrum to place my pipe on....

Procasinator

liah wrote: »

I already stated it wasn't going to be instant. Things are always rocky at the beginning while things get fine-tuned and sorted out-- it's why I ballparked it at roughly 20 years or so. Currently legalization in the EU is still in its infancy with the Netherlands and Portugal, and, no offense meant to either-- neither of them are exactly the big players in the EU, and in the Netherlands it has always been restricted and not fully legalized. I don't know the actual status in Portugal.

People expecting instant change are very short-sighted; in the case of drugs things tend to get worse before they get better, but they do certainly get better. Again and as always, alcohol prohibition is a perfect example.

While it was never fully legalized, they are getting less lax in what they allow.

Portugal decriminalised possession of drugs. Read more:
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html

I wouldn't necessary disagree with you on time frame and stuff, just don't think this article is highlighting a catalyst in any form. The campaign to legalise many drugs has been ongoing for many years now, and all this article highlights is that no EU law regarding drugs is in the making, and that each country is allowed to act as a free agent. It's got nothing to do with the EU being ready to end drug prohibition, because they are not the ones who made the prohibition of have the power to end it.

All this was was hearing. As the article says, the EU has "no competence to take any initiatives for opening the debate on drug reform". The EU as a collective has no opinion in this matter.

Procasinator

prinz wrote: »

We have already seen that there is a significant section of Irish society incapable of dealing with alcohol maturely despite it's long legal history. Perhaps we, as a society, should master one drug first. When we have responsible partaking of one, we may be able to manage responsible partaking in another.

Well, that will never happen. And that line of reasoning is questionable. So many humans have died in auto mobile accidents on roads, but that didn't stop us taking to the skies.

Orando Broom

liah wrote: »

About time this idiotic prohibition starts to come apart. This is great news, or at least, has the potential to be.

Pot, smack and Coke, pilla and all that sh**e are for eejits.

Porther is a real man's drug.


I'd jail every C*** for using those pansy drugs.

liah

prinz wrote: »

We have already seen that there is a significant section of Irish society incapable of dealing with alcohol maturely despite it's long legal history. Perhaps we, as a society, should master one drug first. When we have responsible partaking of one, we may be able to manage responsible partaking in another.

I would also argue that that in and of itself is a side effect of nanny-stateism.

Look at countries with low to no legal drinking age compared to ones that are higher. Inevitably, the countries with low to no legal drinking age have more exposure and the binge or otherwise unhealthy drinking just isn't as big as a problem as countries with higher ages and little exposure until that age. It's very much a noticeable trend.

It's the simple taboo factor. Take the taboo out of the equation and the appeal is diminished considerably. Add education and exposure into the equation and people are doing their drugs of choice responsibly, as the example is set for them.

If something is banned then there is no standard or example set. That leads to unhealthy behaviour and drug use and solves absolutely nothing, because people can still, and always will be able to get the drugs. Might as well pre-empt it and make it safe.

I just don't understand how this simple fact still eludes people. Banning solves nothing, never has, especially when it's something people really want. It just creates bigger, dirtier problems that can only be brushed under the carpet for so long.

prinz

Procasinator wrote: »

Well, that will never happen. And that line of reasoning is questionable. So many humans have died in auto mobile accidents on roads, but that didn't stop us taking to the skies.

We have pilots for that.

Oh_Noes

prinz wrote: »

We have already seen that there is a significant section of Irish society incapable of dealing with alcohol maturely despite it's long legal history. Perhaps we, as a society, should master one drug first. When we have responsible partaking of one, we may be able to manage responsible partaking in another.

This works on the assumption that all "drugs" have the same effect. I agree that legalizing marijuana would most likely cause people to get themselves into problems much like alcohol, but I certainly can't imagine 10 lads and their girlfriends out in the middle of main street on a Saturday night night killing each other and pissing/puking everywhere as a result of smoking cannabis.

Ecstasy/cocaine and friends are a different kettle of fish in my opinion and I wouldn't like to see these become more commonly used. That being said, using the law to control them obviously doesn't work.

Any discussion of this issue is progress IMO. Talking about it legitimizes the debate and as far as I can see, a huge chunk of society disagree with the legal status of cannabis. The issue isn't progressing at a fast pace by any means, but it is coming up more and more, which can only be a good thing.

Procasinator

prinz wrote: »

We have pilots for that.

Sorry for continuing the bad analogy:

A lot of people didn't think like what the Wright brothers were trying to do. And even with all the advances with flying and the auto mobile industry, people die each year on our roads.

prinz

liah wrote: »

I would also argue that that in and of itself is a side effect of nanny-stateism.

Look at countries with low to no legal drinking age compared to ones that are higher. Inevitably, the countries with low to no legal drinking age have more exposure and the binge or otherwise unhealthy drinking just isn't as big as a problem as countries with higher ages and little exposure until that age. It's very much a noticeable trend..

It's not the fault of the State. It's the fault of parents being unwilling, incapable and ignorant of (a) setting a good example and (b) teaching kids about responsible drinking. It's a societal problem. Being in Germany you'll find that the historically low drinking rules are actually being raised because society is changing. Not because the state is 'nannying' but because kids were no longer getting educated at home, as society changes. The same problem is occurring in France where teenage binge drinking, a relatively previously unknown phenomenon, is becoming commonplace. It seems more parents are abdicating responsibility for their offspring and in such circumstances the State must step in.

In this country it is the parents perogative to share alcohol with their kids at home and supervised. This system, properly implemented allowed other countries to enjoy relatively low drinking ages because even at those relatively young ages the youths were mature about drinking. Lowering the drinking age here would be a disaster because not enough parents will properly engage with their kids on the matter. The same problem spans a few issues alcohol, general social responsibility and sex ed being the most obvious.

What you seem to suggest is to lower the drinking age thereby encouraging a healthy attitude towards drink. That's IMO putting the cart before the horse. Get a healthy attitude and then lower the drinking age if needs be.

Wolf Club

It's hard to see the legalisation of any drugs in Ireland for quite a long time. The fact of the matter is, the conservative, religious "moral majority" types are, well, in the majority and are much better at making their voices heard through use of sensationalist headline grabbing and religious rhetoric than most in favour of legalising drugs. A good example would be that disgruntled, Nancy Reagan type lunatic from Roscommon. As long as people like that are around (and I can only imagine there are loads), it's hard to see drug prohibition coming to an end.

Mr E

Why-is-the-topic-hyphenated-and-IN-CAPS?
Maybe-you-should-spend-your-money-on-a-working-keyboard-instead-of-drugs.

Elevator

Mr E wrote: »

Why-is-the-topic-hyphenated-and-IN-CAPS?
Maybe-you-should-spend-your-money-on-a-working-keyboard-instead-of-drugs.

copy and pasted from the link

gee, thanks for your insight there mr e

liah

prinz wrote: »

It's not the fault of the State. It's the fault of parents being unwilling, incapable and ignorant of (a) setting a good example and (b) teaching kids about responsible drinking. It's a societal problem. Being in Germany you'll find that the historically low drinking rules are actually being raised because society is changing. Not because the state is 'nannying' but because kids were no longer getting educated at home, as society changes. The same problem is occurring in France where teenage binge drinking, a relatively previously unknown phenomenon, is becoming commonplace. It seems more parents are abdicating responsibility for their offspring and in such circumstances the State must step in.

In this country it is the parents perogative to share alcohol with their kids at home and supervised. This system, properly implemented allowed other countries to enjoy relatively low drinking ages because even at those relatively young ages the youths were mature about drinking. Lowering the drinking age here would be a disaster because not enough parents will properly engage with their kids on the matter. The same problem spans a few issues alcohol, general social responsibility and sex ed being the most obvious.

What you seem to suggest is to lower the drinking age thereby encouraging a healthy attitude towards drink. That's IMO putting the cart before the horse. Get a healthy attitude and then lower the drinking age if needs be.

I'd argue that you could look at the reason for parents not properly educating their children on it is because of people not being able to drink until the age at which parents kinda stop parenting. Which leads to the age going higher and higher, which accomplishes nothing.

Chicken and egg situation, but raising the age is only going to make things worse. And has been proven to do so.

thebigbiffo

first i was like :D:D

then i was like :(:(

now i'm like :mad::mad::mad:

this is really a non-story. a few potheads lobbied together to get a hearing on drug prohibition - the EU is a massive democracy and that's not hard to do. the outcome was 'yeah, we're hearing ya. but take it to individual states - we dont do law'.

i'm very much anti-prohibition and i do see changes coming down the road but the immediate campaign should focus on medical MJ. if we get that it may very well open the floodgates so to speak. it's about normalising the drug in the mind of the majority of our citizens and with that comes education about it and with that, hopefully, the 'ahhh shure it's harmless, johnny down the road swears by it for his bad back' senario where people just dont give a **** anymore. that's our best chance - look at California.

prinz

liah wrote: »

I'd argue that you could look at the reason for parents not properly educating their children on it is because of people not being able to drink until the age at which parents kinda stop parenting. Which leads to the age going higher and higher, which accomplishes nothing..

You can drink alcohol with your parents in private residences and under proper supervision under 18. The problem continues though when the parents then drink irresonsibly in front of/around their kids.

Procasinator

liah wrote: »

Look at countries with low to no legal drinking age compared to ones that are higher. Inevitably, the countries with low to no legal drinking age have more exposure and the binge or otherwise unhealthy drinking just isn't as big as a problem as countries with higher ages and little exposure until that age. It's very much a noticeable trend.

It only a trend though. The US has a higher legal drinking age on average yet Ireland would have a higher alcohol consumption per capita.

Some countries have an almost outright ban (Muslim), and while it would of course be hard to measure illegal consumption, it safe to assume it less than that of Ireland for instance.

What I mean to say is culture comes into this too and Ireland has a big drinking culture. It's widely accepted to drink in this Country, I don't think the "taboo" you talk about is that sizeable.

While I personally think the Dutch model might suit Ireland - allowed to drink at 16, but not hard liquor until 18 - I don't think Ireland will ever have what is considered a low consumption of alcohol, at least not just from fiddling of +/- the legal age to drink.

liah

prinz wrote: »

You can drink alcohol with your parents in private residences and under proper supervision.

Depending on the country you're from. Keep in mind I'm not Irish and I don't know the ins and outs of Irish law and am more speaking in a broad sense than any sort of specific one.

Unless you mean regardless of legality. In which case I would agree, but would you not agree that a higher age is a deterrent for parents to bother to teach their kids about these things because "ah sure, we won't have to worry about it til he's sixteen and sure he can learn from his friends then"?

I completely agree that it's as much the parent's fault as anything else, but the fact is the state (again, speaking in a broad sense and about nowhere specific) keeping the ages so high is not helping and is more counter-productive than anything.