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RTE Two transmitting in HD resolution

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Comments

  • #92
    cauliflower69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 151 ✭✭cauliflower69


    Do you think theres anyway that they will run both side Sd & HD to lower the prices of the Standard STB's ?

    M8 of mine bought some SD STB's and when I told him of the Hd only RTE2 he contacted the Seller that informed him of a meeting with RTE with some manufactures about the HD only RTE2 and this is the latest response he received. (This sounds very suspect to me as I told him to return the units)

    hi - have heard some news from the meeting with rte - they are promising to return rte2 to sd transmission in the next few days so fingers crossed they will keep their word - thanks for your patience, regards,


  • #93
    fat-tony
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,713 ✭✭✭fat-tony


    HappyHarry wrote: »
    RTENL Test channel is now showing RTE Two in what looks like SD.
    Description in info says "RTE Two Temporary Service"

    May be useful to those that already have non HD STB at least for a another few hours/days/weeks
    It's even worse than SD - it's 480x576 - the race to the bottom of the resolution pile is well and truly on:eek:

    just checked the data stream - the service type is 22 (0x16) (it was x01 on the testcard) - so it's not for Panasonic TVs


  • #94
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,390 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    HappyHarry wrote: »
    RTENL Test channel is now showing RTE Two in what looks like SD.
    Description in info says "RTE Two Temporary Service"

    May be useful to those that already have non HD STB at least for a another few hours/days/weeks

    Should be around until early Jan according to Tony - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=69425176#post69425176. There for the Christmas and New Year period (gone after the holidays, Jan 10th maybe).


  • #95
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,390 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    cauliflower69 wrote: »
    Do you think theres anyway that they will run both side Sd & HD to lower the prices of the Standard STB's ?

    No (according to RTÉ).


  • #96
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    cauliflower69 wrote: »
    Do you think theres anyway that they will run both side Sd & HD to lower the prices of the Standard STB's ?

    M8 of mine bought some SD STB's and when I told him of the Hd only RTE2 he contacted the Seller that informed him of a meeting with RTE with some manufactures about the HD only RTE2 and this is the latest response he received. (This sounds very suspect to me as I told him to return the units)

    hi - have heard some news from the meeting with rte - they are promising to return rte2 to sd transmission in the next few days so fingers crossed they will keep their word - thanks for your patience, regards,

    It would truely STUPID to have the WASTE of an SD copy on Saorview when for OVER TWO years the set-box spec has said "Down convert HD to SD on SCART" for non-HD TVs.

    There is little enough space to be wasting it on pointless duplication.

    RTE2 will only temporarily be SD. It will be HD only.

    RTE1, TG4 and even TV3 will be HD while TVs and set-boxes bought for Saorview are still in their prime.

    http://www.saortv.info/terrestrial-saorview/
    http://www.saortv.info/terrestrial-saorview/the-black-list/


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  • #97
    St Senan
    Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 3,591 Mod ✭✭✭✭St Senan


    cauliflower69 wrote: »
    Do you think theres anyway that they will run both side Sd & HD to lower the prices of the Standard STB's ?

    M8 of mine bought some SD STB's and when I told him of the Hd only RTE2 he contacted the Seller that informed him of a meeting with RTE with some manufactures about the HD only RTE2 and this is the latest response he received. (This sounds very suspect to me as I told him to return the units)

    hi - have heard some news from the meeting with rte - they are promising to return rte2 to sd transmission in the next few days so fingers crossed they will keep their word - thanks for your patience, regards,

    I Know of a couple of installers who bought Triax DTT receivers off a certain supplier. When they contacted the supplier about these Boxes not receiving RTE 2 they were told more or less that they won't be getting a refund or credit for these boxes as RTE only decided to switch to HD on the 1st of December 2010 and told no one
    One of the installers only had the receivers delivered a week before the change. Surely this is not Acceptable from the Supplier.


  • #98
    Harry.c
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 72 ✭✭Harry.c


    I too know no an installer who also bought some of these triax recievers from a certain supplier, when he contacted them regarding the rte/Hd issue, was basicly told wasn,t their problem, and were not getting a refund or exchange!


    scaller wrote: »
    I Know of a couple of installers who bought Triax DTT receivers off a certain supplier. When they contacted the supplier about these Boxes not receiving RTE 2 they were told more or less that they won't be getting a refund or credit for these boxes as RTE only decided to switch to HD on the 1st of December 2010 and told no one
    One of the installers only had the receivers delivered a week before the change. Surely this is not Acceptable from the Supplier.


  • #99
    lawhec
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,757 ✭✭✭lawhec


    fat-tony wrote: »
    It's even worse than SD - it's 480x576 - the race to the bottom of the resolution pile is well and truly on:eek:

    just checked the data stream - the service type is 22 (0x16) (it was x01 on the testcard) - so it's not for Panasonic TVs
    SVCD FTW!!!


  • #100
    mcwhirter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭mcwhirter


    Watched a bit of rte2 last night. There was a black/white movie on and it looked great. Some commercials were pin sharp.
    Even if it is upscaled it is still an improvement over SD as noticed the difference instantly when switching over to rte1.


  • #101
    fat-tony
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,713 ✭✭✭fat-tony


    lawhec wrote: »
    SVCD FTW!!!
    The picture on my PC was woeful, but I hadn't seen it on my main TV (42" plasma) until now. OMG:eek: - from the sublime upscaled picture on RTE2 to this godawful ridiculous image. Someone in RTENL must be trying to make a point!


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  • #102
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 22,785 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    scaller wrote: »
    I Know of a couple of installers who bought Triax DTT receivers off a certain supplier. When they contacted the supplier about these Boxes not receiving RTE 2 they were told more or less that they won't be getting a refund or credit for these boxes as RTE only decided to switch to HD on the 1st of December 2010 and told no one
    One of the installers only had the receivers delivered a week before the change. Surely this is not Acceptable from the Supplier.
    It I would think is against the law.
    The item should be fit for purpose and it is not.
    Small claims court territory.


  • #103
    byte
    Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 19,224 Mod ✭✭✭✭byte
    byte


    Harry.c wrote: »
    I too know no an installer who also bought some of these triax recievers from a certain supplier, when he contacted them regarding the rte/Hd issue, was basicly told wasn,t their problem, and were not getting a refund or exchange!
    In that case, that supplier should get no more of the installer's business.

    I think a supplier should look after installers, just as much as installers should look after their customers.


  • #104
    St Senan
    Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 3,591 Mod ✭✭✭✭St Senan


    byte wrote: »
    In that case, that supplier should get no more of the installer's business.

    I think a supplier should look after installers, just as much as installers should look after their customers.

    I agree 100% this supplier should look after any installer who bought these Triax DTT boxes from him. I know these 2 guys well and they spend {did spend} a lot of money with this particular supplier. This supplier is well known in the satellite an TV trade. I was just speaking to 1 of the installers tonight he was in touch with the supplier again yesterday and still he was told that there wont be any refund on these receivers. This is not good business at all this supplier will end up losing a lot of business if he don't get his act together.


  • #105
    Harry.c
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 72 ✭✭Harry.c


    Very very true, I think he has finished with that supplier now and is bringing his buisness elsewhere, any supplier that has that attitude deserves no more buisness from any installer

    byte wrote: »
    In that case, that supplier should get no more of the installer's business.

    I think a supplier should look after installers, just as much as installers should look after their customers.


  • #106
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,160 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    My TV (Samsung LE40C530) seems to rescan automatically, I noticed the RTENL channel is now called RTE Two Temp.


  • #107
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Deleted User wrote: »
    It I would think is against the law.
    The item should be fit for purpose and it is not.
    Small claims court territory.

    Sadly Trade Customers from a Wholesale may not have same protections as Retail customer.


  • #108
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    Who is the supplier ? Name and shame if you are getting stone walled. Because someone dropped the ball here. They are obviously stuck with loads of them. Expensive mistake!!

    The spec published in 2008 explicity states:

    To conform to the minimum receiver specification the IRD shall be compliant with the following standards:

    1) NorDig 2.0 Basic Profile @ High Definition Level (For info: MPEG-4 AVC HL@L4 SDTV + HDTV video IS mandatory)

    Compared to NorDig Unified 2.0 basic profile specification, the following major additional minimum requirements and clarifications are applicable for all IRDs:

    • MPEG4 HD Level mandatory on all IRDs which among other things includes:
    o Video decoding (see chapter 5.2)
    MPEG4 HP@L4 HDTV (observe this includes HP@L3 SDTV)

    Source: http://www.rtenl.ie/downloads/RTE-FTA-DTT-Receiver-Spec.pdf

    What does it even say on the front page?

    It couldnt be more explicit. Go demand your money back. Suppliers should know what they are sourcing! Its not as if its the best kept secret ffs. RTFM and you will make no mistakes suppliers.


  • #109
    St Senan
    Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 3,591 Mod ✭✭✭✭St Senan


    watty wrote: »
    Sadly Trade Customers from a Wholesale may not have same protections as Retail customer.

    Watty these Triax tr110 boxes were/are sold by the Supplier to receive Irish Dtt channels now these boxes cant receive RTE 2 and will eventually receive no Irish channels. As STB has said all reputable Retail shops and Suppliers were made aware of the receiver Requirements since 19-12-2008 surely this supplier was aware of the changes and he still went a head and sold these incompatible boxes. That is wrong to do on his customers and now for him to refuse refunding to anybody who bought boxes from him. It says it here http://www.consumerconnect.ie/eng/Hot_Topics/FAQs/Faulty-goods/ that be fit for the purpose they were bought for which these receivers are clearly not.


  • #110
    Tom Slick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 393 ✭✭Tom Slick


    Business to business ain't consumer.


  • #111
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    They are being sold to consumers though Tom.

    Simple mistake by the suppliers. They dont meet the minimum specification. Give em back.

    You dont need analogies to figure it out.


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  • #112
    Tom Slick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 393 ✭✭Tom Slick


    Yes, but who's selling to the end user. Would have thought wholesalers deal with trade only to avoid this kind of thing.


  • #113
    St Senan
    Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 3,591 Mod ✭✭✭✭St Senan


    Tom this wholesaler/supplier sells to the public aswell.


  • #114
    irishchris
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,309 ✭✭✭irishchris


    so is rte two testing on rte nl to switch back to sd again shortly??


  • #115
    lawhec
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,757 ✭✭✭lawhec


    fat-tony wrote: »
    The picture on my PC was woeful, but I hadn't seen it on my main TV (42" plasma) until now. OMGeek.gif - from the sublime upscaled picture on RTE2 to this godawful ridiculous image. Someone in RTENL must be trying to make a point!
    480x576 can look decent or awful depending on a few things, if the material is broadcast as 4:3, or letterboxed with 4:3 flag, the 480 vertical lines should be OK (given sufficient bit rate) as it's the rough equivalent of 640 lines anamorphic widescreen, cropped to a 4:3 display (720 lines anamorphic widescreen cropped to 4:3 gives 540 vertical lines), becoming around 2/3rds of the amount of D1 (704/720x576) pixels in a 4:3 display with a negligible loss of quality on displays, especially CRT's, up to around 26 inches.

    However, if it's 480 vertical lines in anamorphic widescreen 16:9, then there's going to be a significant reduction in sharpness that no ample amount of bit rate can salvage. Even worse, if cropped to 4:3, you have only 360 lines of vertical display, around 1/2 D1 resolution, approaching a standard used for extended capacity (3-4 hours) on DVD recorders, about slightly better than a good quality commercial VHS tape.

    Having looked at the RTÉ2 temp. service, it's quite clear that artefacts are spoiling an already very soft picture. If there is an ulterior motive behind this beyond some technical "real world" testing, it's RTÉ telling people "You want a decent picture for RTÉ2? Get something that is officially Saorview badged that can display HD!"


  • #116
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Save bit rate for the real channels?


  • #117
    fat-tony
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,713 ✭✭✭fat-tony


    lawhec wrote: »
    Having looked at the RTÉ2 temp. service, it's quite clear that artefacts are spoiling an already very soft picture. If there is an ulterior motive behind this beyond some technical "real world" testing, it's RTÉ telling people "You want a decent picture for RTÉ2? Get something that is officially Saorview badged that can display HD!"
    They were exactly my thoughts - the two extremes of picture quality on show. Looking at the picture even on my smaller TV, the compression artefacts are plainly visible and make it unwatchable.


  • #118
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,390 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    irishchris wrote: »
    so is rte two testing on rte nl to switch back to sd again shortly??

    No, will be gone again sometime in Jan.

    RTÉ probably switched over to 1080i HD to kill the dodgy box sales on the run in to Christmas. Maybe as a concession to owners of these boxes they have given them a low resolution RTÉ 2 for the Christmas/New Year period.

    This from the "RTÉ Two Temporary Service" programme info banner (including the bit of gibberish on the last line)
    This is a temporary service which will cease in early 2011, viewers unable to receive RTÉ Two pictures on EPG
    channel 2 are using a TV or Set Top Box (STB) which is not compatible with the Irish DTT platform - Saorview
    Approved TV or STB will display RTÉ Two on EPG ch 2 viewers unable to view RTÉ Two pictures on EPG ch 2 need
    to replace their current DTT receive equipment and should contact the equipment supplier. RTÉNL endorse only
    Saorview approved equipment ÿengùöApproved TV or STB will display RTÉ Two on EPG ch 2 viewers unable t vie...

    EDIT: On Friday 10th the programme info banner text was changed to include a more specific end date for the "Tempoeary Service" - 18 April 2011
    This temporary service will cease 18 April 2011, viewers unable to receive RTÉ Two pictures on EPG channel 2 are
    using a TV or Set Top Box (STB) which is not compatible with the Irish DTT platform - Saorview RTÉNL endorse
    only Saorview approved equipment. Approved TV or STB will display RTÉ Two on EPG ch 2, viewers unable to view
    RTÉ Two pictures on EPG ch 2 need to replace their current DTT equipment and should contact the equipment
    supplier


  • #119
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Their Analogue RTE2 would be better :)


  • #120
    Stinicker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,099 ✭✭✭Stinicker


    I just rescanned on my Technomate 6900HD Combo box and Ch. 7 RTENL has now been renamed RTÉ Two Temp.

    The epg given states:

    This is a temporary service which will cease in early 2011, viewers unable to receive RTÉ Two pictures on EPG channel 2 are using a TV or Set Top Box (STB) which is not compatible with the Irish DTT platform - Saorview

    So this is a goodwill gesture from RTE towards those with incompatible receivers so as not to leave them stranded over Christmas it would seem and also to buy the the installers and suppliers some breathing space.


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  • #121
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    Stinicker wrote: »
    I just rescanned on my Technomate 6900HD Combo box and Ch. 7 RTENL has now been renamed RTÉ Two Temp.

    The epg given states:

    This is a temporary service which will cease in early 2011, viewers unable to receive RTÉ Two pictures on EPG channel 2 are using a TV or Set Top Box (STB) which is not compatible with the Irish DTT platform - Saorview

    So this is a goodwill gesture from RTE towards those with incompatible receivers so as not to leave them stranded over Christmas it would seem and also to buy the the installers and suppliers some breathing space.

    You could read it that way. However, it is also letting people know they may have been sold a dud especially if they were told it would meet the requirements they bought it for.


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