Price of the Pint - What would make you go back to the pub ?

fontanalis · 09-12-2010 05:16PM

Does it not depend on the pub? Some of the old pubs are nice places and have a nice atmosphere, I like the idea of going to a place that not wedged with morons and stinking of red bull.
The attitude of drinking in Ireland comes into it too, the idea of drinking as much as possible in as little time as possible to get as drunk as possible is moronic.

stimpson · 09-12-2010 05:20PM

Crucify Daire O'Brien in a pay-per-view event on Sky and we'll talk.

If there is one thing putting me off the pub it's that fúckers ads on the radio.

ardinn · 09-12-2010 05:22PM

thebigbiffo wrote: »

people forget that the vintners associations froze the price of drink for members back in 2008. at first it made sense because you thought they were tackling the recession early then it sunk in that what they were in actual fact doing was standardising the price so individual members wouldn't drop prices thereby forcing widespread drops across the industry.

it was a disgrace imo and something that didn't recieve enough attention.

The Vintners did not do this.

After discovering diageo had yet another increase in the pipeline they lobied against it. Declaring they would not increase the price of drink and would not pay for increases on the keg.

They also tried to ease fears by introducing a price freeze - this was for the good of he customer - in the vintners eyes anyway.

It was meant to say - things are getting tough, we wont put up the prices - The competition authority went ballistic because at the time we had started to go into deflation - yet there had been no decrease in the price of supplies.

The CA then turned the situation on its head declaring it was a country wide price FIX? Which was not the case - it was just an undertaking by individual members not to increase their individual prices.

Accusing them of fixing the price for the country is far from fair - at the time they were trying to be helpful to people.

ColeTrain · 09-12-2010 05:27PM

20goto10 wrote: »

You could take out the over priced alcohol and still do everything you mentioned above. The problem is it's the only thing Irish people know. Well that is until recent years when people have started doing other things. Pubs have nothing to offer. You can do so much more calling over to a mates. Watch a movie, play poker, xbox/ps3. You can have a cigarette and listen to your own taste in music and at a comfortable volume. You can have a drink if you like but drink becomes part of something else. It's not a drinking occasion, it's a poker game or it's a console session and the fact someone may or may not have a drink as part of it becomes irrelevant.

The whole point of going to the pub is to just drink and talk to people, that's what appeals to most people. To get away from everyday things.

I go over to my mates house for poker and xbox but the thing about the pub is that you always meet people you wouldn't normally see unlike a mates house where it is a closed circle. Pub = public, that's the appeal.

Nate--IRL-- · 09-12-2010 05:31PM

ardinn wrote: »

Accusing them of fixing the price for the country is far from fair - at the time they were trying to be helpful to people.

LOL

Nate

seamus · 09-12-2010 05:34PM

20goto10 wrote: »

You can do so much more calling over to a mates. Watch a movie, play poker, xbox/ps3. You can have a cigarette and listen to your own taste in music and at a comfortable volume.

That's all well and good for the single twentysomethings. For the rest of the planet with children and spouses, a pub is the only venue that doesn't require ten days planning in advance to sit down and have a chat with people.

knipex · 09-12-2010 05:37PM

Cú Giobach wrote: »

max €3.50 a pint and this back on the tables.

That would do it for me as well.

Smoking ban put an end to my pub days.

High energy · 09-12-2010 05:38PM

€3 a pint and I'd pretty much live in pubs.

bryaner · 09-12-2010 05:49PM

knipex wrote: »

That would do it for me as well.

Smoking ban put an end to my pub days.

And started a lot of non smokers pub days..

PeakOutput · 09-12-2010 06:07PM

thebigbiffo wrote: »

bog master wrote: »

lets say you've 50 in your small local pub on a Sat night then and they each drink an average of 7 pints each - that's €511 profit. when you've to pay for heating, electricity, insurance etc it doesn't really make you think they're on a goldmine.

i never said small locals were sitting on a goldmine though and 3.60 for a pint is quite reasonable however there is nowhere in limerick city or dublin city were i can get a pint of heineken for 3.60. 4-5 euro is the norm

i dont think anyone is talking about small local pubs in the countryside being expensive. its large pubs and clubs in towns and cities that are the rip offs

there is also far higher markup on spirits and mixers then on beer

bog master wrote: »

My point exactly!

thats great, his figures arent for the type of pub or club im talking about though he is talking about a small local pub

if i assume that the costs are the same for say, smyths in limerick city as it is for that small pub then

price of a pint is around 5euro(some are a bit more some are a bit less with guiness being the cheapest)
Selling price ex VAT €3.95
Buy from Diageo ex VAT €1.46
Profit from Pint €2.49

the capacity of that place is at least 500 and probably close to 800/900 if you include the club its attached onto. if every person buys one pint thats 2K profit right there, if everyone buys 2 pints thats all the wages of the barmen and other staff taken care of for the night(besides possibly the managers and head of security). now how many pints do you think people buy? and then dont forget shots and spirits and mixers and water with 1 euro splashes in them and the 10-15 euro cover charge and the 2/3 euro for the cloak room

thats a goldmine

Cú Giobach · 09-12-2010 06:17PM

bryaner wrote: »

And started a lot of non smokers pub days..

Couldn't have been that many seeing as pubs all over the country are closing down.

PeakOutput · 09-12-2010 06:21PM

Cú Giobach wrote: »

Couldn't have been that many seeing as pubs all over the country are closing down.

due to high prices

not lack of people willing to spend their money

just lack of people who dont care about value for money

gamgsam · 09-12-2010 06:29PM

€3 pints

Or bitty

Cú Giobach · 09-12-2010 06:41PM

PeakOutput wrote: »

due to high prices

Check out this. I know it's from Guinness, and there are other factors to take into account, but it is interesting.
The price hasn't changed much (apparently) with respect to wages.

I like the figure on the right, how many pints you can get for a weeks wages...(hic)

PeakOutput · 09-12-2010 06:52PM

Cú Giobach wrote: »

Check out this. I know it's from Guinness, and there are other factors to take into account, but it is interesting.
The price hasn't changed much (apparently) with respect to wages.

I like the figure on the right, how many pints you can get for a weeks wages...(hic)

ye ok i can understand that but that dosnt mean that the pint is worth that much if you know what i mean, i could earn a million that dosnt mean that to me a pint is worth 4grand

i know thats not what you were implying but still its not a very relevant index

also there is no point in using countrywide averages because the prices from cities and towns to rural areas varies massively, as it should, but that also means you cant discuss them in the same context.

people in cities and towns who go to large pubs and clubs are being seriously ripped off, and to an extent they have themselves to blame as they still flock to these places in the thousands but at the same time i dont have any sympathy for a publican who says they cant run a viable business in this climate

ardinn · 09-12-2010 06:53PM

PeakOutput wrote: »

thebigbiffo wrote: »

i never said small locals were sitting on a goldmine though and 3.60 for a pint is quite reasonable however there is nowhere in limerick city or dublin city were i can get a pint of heineken for 3.60. 4-5 euro is the norm

i dont think anyone is talking about small local pubs in the countryside being expensive. its large pubs and clubs in towns and cities that are the rip offs

there is also far higher markup on spirits and mixers then on beer

thats great, his figures arent for the type of pub or club im talking about though he is talking about a small local pub

if i assume that the costs are the same for say, smyths in limerick city as it is for that small pub then

price of a pint is around 5euro(some are a bit more some are a bit less with guiness being the cheapest)
Selling price ex VAT €3.95
Buy from Diageo ex VAT €1.46
Profit from Pint €2.49

the capacity of that place is at least 500 and probably close to 800/900 if you include the club its attached onto. if every person buys one pint thats 2K profit right there, if everyone buys 2 pints thats all the wages of the barmen and other staff taken care of for the night(besides possibly the managers and head of security). now how many pints do you think people buy? and then dont forget shots and spirits and mixers and water with 1 euro splashes in them and the 10-15 euro cover charge and the 2/3 euro for the cloak room

thats a goldmine

OK - there's allot wrong with that post -

Rates
Insurance
Fit-out

To name but three.

I would estimate a venue of that size the rates hit over €50,000
Insurance could be well over €10k
The fit out of venues - especially clubs is unreal - if the lighting system is anyway decent it would have cost up to 300k for sound & vision - probably more

Electrcity for the year - €60,000 - Heat - €15,000

Alot of extras in there so we'll call it €450,000 per year at an absolute minimum. - for just the club.

Factor in staff for the night - 900 people - maybe 50 people including managers and cloakroom, cleaners - security - averaging €15 per hour for 8 hours. - Thats €6,000

multiplied by 3 per weekend - 18,000 - by 52 weeks - €936,000

Sooooooo - your lookin at 1.5mil running costs for the year at best.

which is €9,615,38 per night open

Not including cost of sales - so you could probably conclude they need to clear over €20,000 per night to cover themselves alone.

So in conclusion - Nightclubs all over this country are closing down because there is no such thing as a goldmine anymore.

beaver111 · 09-12-2010 06:55PM

PeakOutput wrote: »

thebigbiffo wrote: »

i never said small locals were sitting on a goldmine though and 3.60 for a pint is quite reasonable however there is nowhere in limerick city or dublin city were i can get a pint of heineken for 3.60. 4-5 euro is the norm

i dont think anyone is talking about small local pubs in the countryside being expensive. its large pubs and clubs in towns and cities that are the rip offs

there is also far higher markup on spirits and mixers then on beer

thats great, his figures arent for the type of pub or club im talking about though he is talking about a small local pub

if i assume that the costs are the same for say, smyths in limerick city as it is for that small pub then

price of a pint is around 5euro(some are a bit more some are a bit less with guiness being the cheapest)
Selling price ex VAT €3.95
Buy from Diageo ex VAT €1.46
Profit from Pint €2.49

the capacity of that place is at least 500 and probably close to 800/900 if you include the club its attached onto. if every person buys one pint thats 2K profit right there, if everyone buys 2 pints thats all the wages of the barmen and other staff taken care of for the night(besides possibly the managers and head of security). now how many pints do you think people buy? and then dont forget shots and spirits and mixers and water with 1 euro splashes in them and the 10-15 euro cover charge and the 2/3 euro for the cloak room

thats a goldmine

and now all the pubs are buying there drink in tesco by the van load i asked the guy working there were all the heiniken and bud was on sale at the time 15 yo yo a caseand he told me there buying it by the van load fcuking cowboys there all at it rip off ireland

benjamin d · 09-12-2010 06:56PM

In most bigger towns and cities there is at least one pub where you can get pints for around three euro. The problem that I see is that with cheap pubs atmosphere is sacrificed. Pubs that have cheap drink tend, by their nature, to have a rowdy/scummy/gobsh1te crowd because those kind of people go there to get hammered. I would love to see a cheap pub with a strict policy on behaviour of its patrons. This way people could relax in a nice atmosphere without having to pay extra for the privilege.

ardinn · 09-12-2010 07:00PM

beaver111 wrote: »

PeakOutput wrote: »

and now all the pubs are buying there drink in tesco by the van load i asked the guy working there were all the heiniken and bud was on sale at the time 15 yo yo a caseand he told me there buying it by the van load fcuking cowboys there all at it rip off ireland

Tesco sells alcohol at below cost - if publicans do buy it they still need a vat reciept - and there is not one supermarket that will sell in bulk to one person - if that tesco is selling van loads of stock they are breaching there own policies.

Cú Giobach · 09-12-2010 07:10PM

PeakOutput wrote: »

ye ok i can understand that but that dosnt mean that the pint is worth that much if you know what i mean, i could earn a million that dosnt mean that to me a pint is worth 4grand

i know thats not what you were implying but still its not a very relevant index

also there is no point in using countrywide averages because the prices from cities and towns to rural areas varies massively, as it should, but that also means you cant discuss them in the same context.

people in cities and towns who go to large pubs and clubs are being seriously ripped off, and to an extent they have themselves to blame as they still flock to these places in the thousands but at the same time i dont have any sympathy for a publican who says they cant run a viable business in this climate

Well that index shows something I knew for years (having spent most of the last 30 years in the pub getting pissed), that is the price hasn't changed that much with respect to income.
People have always paid way over the average for the dubious pleasure of the bigger pubs and clubs in the cities.

PeakOutput · 09-12-2010 07:16PM

ardinn wrote: »

PeakOutput wrote: »

OK - there's allot wrong with that post -

Rates
Insurance
Fit-out

To name but three.

I would estimate a venue of that size the rates hit over €50,000
Insurance could be well over €10k
The fit out of venues - especially clubs is unreal - if the lighting system is anyway decent it would have cost up to 300k for sound & vision - probably more

Electrcity for the year - €60,000 - Heat - €15,000

Alot of extras in there so we'll call it €450,000 per year at an absolute minimum. - for just the club.

Factor in staff for the night - 900 people - maybe 50 people including managers and cloakroom, cleaners - security - averaging €15 per hour for 8 hours. - Thats €6,000

multiplied by 3 per weekend - 18,000 - by 52 weeks - €936,000

Sooooooo - your lookin at 1.5mil running costs for the year at best.

which is €9,615,38 per night open

Not including cost of sales - so you could probably conclude they need to clear over €20,000 per night to cover themselves alone.

So in conclusion - Nightclubs all over this country are closing down because there is no such thing as a goldmine anymore.

there is nothing wrong with the post, his example didnt include running costs neither did mine. im obviously quite aware that there are running costs for a venue or a pub

also all your figures are over inflated especially the staff numbers. i used to work there.

if i had a couple of hours i could find out exact figures for every position but i dont to be honest.

from doing quick calculations on paper herei would say that the cost for running the place is about 30-45% lower then your figure and thats mainly because of your staff estimates. there are probably 40 people max staff over the entire course of a saturday there and the average wage excluding manager and assitant manager is nothing like 15euro. in fact i would say the assistant manager is on no more then 15 an hour.

PeakOutput · 09-12-2010 07:18PM

ardinn wrote: »

beaver111 wrote: »

Tesco sells alcohol at below cost - if publicans do buy it they still need a vat reciept - and there is not one supermarket that will sell in bulk to one person - if that tesco is selling van loads of stock they are breaching there own policies.

just to be clear thats not my post you quoted, i know its a type but still its not from me

Copper23 · 09-12-2010 07:18PM

I still go to the pub, myself and the GF are still young, earning well, and are far too young to be having a very brats running around.

It's expensive but when was it not?

PeakOutput · 09-12-2010 07:21PM

ardinn wrote: »

Not including cost of sales - so you could probably conclude they need to clear over €20,000 per night to cover themselves alone.

even if that is how much they need to cover their costs, which i dont believe for a second.

800 people paying 15 euro into a nightclub plus 2/3 euro for the cloakroom is close to 15K

ardinn · 09-12-2010 07:38PM

PeakOutput wrote: »

ardinn wrote: »

there is nothing wrong with the post, his example didnt include running costs neither did mine. im obviously quite aware that there are running costs for a venue or a pub

also all your figures are over inflated especially the staff numbers. i used to work there.

if i had a couple of hours i could find out exact figures for every position but i dont to be honest.

from doing quick calculations on paper herei would say that the cost for running the place is about 30-45% lower then your figure and thats mainly because of your staff estimates. there are probably 40 people max staff over the entire course of a saturday there and the average wage excluding manager and assitant manager is nothing like 15euro. in fact i would say the assistant manager is on no more then 15 an hour.

After working and managing venues across the country when you take head door-men - and managers wages it takes the average well up - in dublin the average wage of a barmen exceeds €11ph and more. I also left out a massive proportion of overheads and other costs - so im probably pretty close - alot closer than you 35-40% guess.

ardinn · 09-12-2010 07:46PM

PeakOutput wrote: »

even if that is how much they need to cover their costs, which i dont believe for a second.

800 people paying 15 euro into a nightclub plus 2/3 euro for the cloakroom is close to 15K

Why dont you believe it???

PeakOutput · 09-12-2010 07:55PM

ardinn wrote: »

Why dont you believe it???

because the estimate that makes up the bulk of your 1.5million figure is wrong. the average wage is not 15euro an hour and there arent 50 people working there over the course of an entire day not to mind in one night. your other estimates i am prepared to accept but as i said i would say you are over estimating the cost of labour by about double

bog master · 09-12-2010 08:07PM

Just a point here as one who enjoys his few pints and has intimate knowlede of the pub trade in a RURAL area.

Most people are not aware of Health & Safety regulations and the cost involved in serving any kind of prepared ie cooked food. Several years ago, one of the three locals used to serve homemade soup, made by the publicans partner and simple sandwiches, toasted ham and cheese. Told
to STOP, as the the soup ingredients could not be traced. The sandwiches were made behind the bar in a secure area, all ingredients in a fridge. NOT ON says the health board. Publican was advised you have to put in a proper kitchen. Not having the space and with a estimated cost of tiled floors, tiled walls or stainless steal, extractors fans, one sink for washing up when handling a vegetable, one sink for when handling a meat, and one general washing up sink, along with a separate toliet for kitchen staff, he gave up.

So to serve that bit of food, is not as easy as some make it out to be.

But I stress, I am not talking large town, city type pubs!

On to cheap pints now! One of the locals is doing a deal on lagers, Carlsberg and Bud I believe. 4 pints for €11.00. It seems from reports,I ,have not been there, the "regulars" are switching from stout or whatever, and the custom has not really increased by much. Another sad side effect seems to be more trouble on the weekend, when lads totally go mad, just to get pissed because they perceive the drink to be cheap and half a good reason to do just that.
But at the end of the day, I prefer to go into a pub where the service is good,the atmosphere and decor welcomng, warm and clean, and my mates are. I go for the good time, not to get drunk!

Antomus Prime · 09-12-2010 08:12PM

Back the the opening question...........
For me it's not really the cost of the drink that bothers me, yeah 4.50-5.00 is too much for a pint (and higher in clubs) but for me anyway the problems are as follows,

Alot of pubs around my area have no security sunday - thursday so they let any auld scumbag or nacker in who just annoy everyone there

The poor seating layouts... For example - The Old Mill Tallaght.
They have one huge round bar in the middle of the pub, seems like a great idea but it takes up too much space and the place is always really cramped on a busy nite cause the walkways between the bar and the seats are so narrow and everybody has to stand there cause theres nowhere left to sit. 2 bars, one on both side walls would free up so much space in the middle.

Smoking area's, now before all you anti-smokers go off on your "if you wanna smoke it's your problem" i'll say this...... That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. But MY opinion is that publicans know that when you drink you tend to smoke more, so if you want the smokers to visit your establishment regularly then you need to facilitate them, being a usually cold and wet country, a decent shelter and a heater wouldn't go astray. Not only would it not cost alot but it would be very appreciated by the punters.

Now in saying that none of these reason stop me going to the pub but resolving them would make the experience alot more enjoyable......

ardinn · 09-12-2010 08:14PM

PeakOutput wrote: »

because the estimate that makes up the bulk of your 1.5million figure is wrong. the average wage is not 15euro an hour and there arent 50 people working there over the course of an entire day not to mind in one night. your other estimates i am prepared to accept but as i said i would say you are over estimating the cost of labour by about double

O.K. say barmen are on €12 head barmen and supervisors on €13 doormen on €18 and head and supervisory doormen on €20 Manager on €20 cleaners on €9

For 900 - you need
10 cleaners / back bar/ cloak room - €90
18 doormen - 1 per 50 patrons - recommended €324
12-14 barmen € 143
2-3- supervisors €30
2 managers €40 - €5016 minimum = €782,500 Minimum - so say €800k

Taking my original estimate back to €19,000 per night.

If I can later i might do a full estimate - its only my estimate and can be incorrect depending on different places but its a rough giude - not to be taken as gospel of course - just trying to make it a little clearer and do sum light sums for people.

Price of the Pint - What would make you go back to the pub ?

Comments