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Wikileaks merge (Assange loses extradition appeal)

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,575 ✭✭✭✭FlutterinBantam


    Here we f@cking go, the red terror argument. No one is asking for every single decision to be put to the people but just a little accountability and transparency being applied to the rule of government and a halt on their attacks on the freedom of speech and expression.

    As for your ridiculous claim that there has been no major conflict in the West over the past 65 years, you have a point but only because we finally decided crapping on our own porch was stupid and it makes more sense to wage wars against the poor yellow and brown people who dare to oppose us and our glorious democracy.


    You know who you are starting to sound like, good old Bill O Reilly, please for your own sake and our sanity try to come up with better arguments other then Wikileaks are dirty socialist, liberal deviants who want to destroy our democracy and take away our freedoms by having the gall and the cheek to presume they are actually allowed to use those very same freedoms.

    Countries are allowed to take actions to defend themselves.

    Only punters who disagree with that are the lefty reds who just want social chaos when they can slip in under the radar and sponge on other peoples efforts.

    This idiot is providing a platform for gimps with ultra views to stoke up the uneducated and deflect the spotlight from their real agenda.

    Most of us who understand this can see through this.


    Where does his funding come from??


  • Posts: 3,251 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It's impractical. Wikileaks is taking a hold of diplomat's balls and yelling YOU MUST CONSULT IN PUBLIC OR BECOME A SOVIET SECRET STATE ORGANISATION OR WE WILL DESTROY YOU!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,797 ✭✭✭karma_


    Countries are allowed to take actions to defend themselves.

    Only punters who disagree with that are the lefty reds who just want social chaos when they can slip in under the radar and sponge on other peoples efforts.

    This idiot is providing a platform for gimps with ultra views to stoke up the uneducated and deflect the spotlight from their real agenda.

    Most of us who understand this can see through this.


    Where does his funding come from??

    You claim to 'understand' yet have to ask where the funding comes from? And have the neck to accuse others of being uneducated...


  • Posts: 3,251 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    My question- why should less open societies do business with Assangeian ideal ones, if they risk being opened up more than they are willing to? Or should we cast off there regimes into the cold, and open dialogue when they have a democratic revolution?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,379 ✭✭✭Sticky_Fingers


    Countries are allowed to take actions to defend themselves.

    Only punters who disagree with that are the lefty reds who just want social chaos when they can slip in under the radar and sponge on other peoples efforts.

    This idiot is providing a platform for gimps with ultra views to stoke up the uneducated and deflect the spotlight from their real agenda.

    Most of us who understand this can see through this.


    Where does his funding come from??

    Oh the irony and your complete lack of self awareness is delicious
    It's impractical. Wikileaks is taking a hold of diplomat's balls and yelling YOU MUST CONSULT IN PUBLIC OR BECOME A SOVIET SECRET STATE ORGANISATION OR WE WILL DESTROY YOU!
    This makes no sense whatsoever, Wikileaks are doing what the do to chip away at the faux capitalist "secret state organisation" so we can get back to something resembling functional democracy, not the sham we are currently stuck with.

    This isn't communism versus capitalist, this is democracy versus plutocracy.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,575 ✭✭✭✭FlutterinBantam


    Oh the irony and your complete lack of self awareness is delicious


    This makes no sense whatsoever, Wikileaks are doing what the do to chip away at the faux capitalist "secret state organisation" so we can get back to something resembling functional democracy, not the sham we are currently stuck with.

    This isn't communism versus capitalist, this is democracy versus plutocracy.

    Smart comments won't cut it .

    Do you expect everybody to do their business,and diplomacy, totally in the public arena,as you seem to be suggesting.?

    If you do you are more naive that I gave you credit for.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,485 ✭✭✭Thrill


    S
    Do you expect everybody to do their business,and diplomacy, totally in the public arena,as you seem to be suggesting.?


    When it tries to hush stuff up like this.......


    Report: Wikileaks cables show Texas company "helped pimp little boys to stoned Afghan cops"

    http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2010/12/wikileaks_texas_company_helped.php

    Then yes.


  • Posts: 3,251 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Thrill wrote: »
    When it tries to hush stuff up like this.......

    Then yes.

    That's one (very valid for exposure) example. But Assange demands all diplomacy be either public or unworkably secret. Neither are doable.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,575 ✭✭✭✭FlutterinBantam


    Thrill wrote: »
    That's one (very valid for exposure) example. But Assange demands all diplomacy be either public or unworkably secret. Neither are doable.

    Selective exposure bud, nobody is against that, however to expect that international diplomacy and procedures be totally open and accessible is stupid in the extreme and shows the paucity of your grasp of reality.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 510 ✭✭✭steo87


    capitalist czars

    Oxymoron alert.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    gizmo wrote: »
    What are you even trying to say here? Some US politicians have certainly used similar wording to describe him and in many cases, they'd be correct, he facilitated the publication of secret US documents, it's espionage at the very least.

    Yet they're careful not to fire the same charges at the New York Times....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 383 ✭✭Scrambled egg


    This whole wikileaks thing got me thinking , would it not be a much better idea for governments to just release all their documents after a time period of say 4 or 5 years.

    I know that they already have a system like this in place , but its over decades and IIRC and they don't release all files. So if they adopted this policy they would have discretion in the short run to get things done , but in the long run they would be accountable for their actions.

    Just my two cents.


  • Posts: 3,251 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    steo87 wrote: »
    Oxymoron alert.

    Parody understand fail.


  • Posts: 3,251 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    This whole wikileaks thing got me thinking , would it not be a much better idea for governments to just release all their documents after a time period of say 4 or 5 years.

    I know that they already have a system like this in place , but its over decades and IIRC and they don't release all files. So if they adopted this policy they would have discretion in the short run to get things done , but in the long run they would be accountable for their actions.

    Just my two cents.

    (I'm at my laptop. Yay! I can use more words to sound less like a crackpot!)

    I like the idea myself. In a perfect, all-democratic world, it could work very well, especially if it was a case that after an election, the previous government's papers became matters of public record.

    However, while there are secretive organisations (communists, juntas, crackpot dictators, de facto dictators corrupt officials, power hungry officials and what have you) that are in positions of sovereign power across the globe, there's no point hobbling yourself when their people can't force them to hobble themselves too. They'll point, laugh, adn say "Why would we bring that kind of trouble to our country? Let's keep power to ourselves, adn save the hassle"

    Serously, if we were to insist on "no compromise, you must conform to our standards of right and wrong, or do no business with us",then we would be starting the Cold War again, but with more nations.

    Diplomacy is compromise.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,167 ✭✭✭Notorious


    Smcgie wrote: »
    I didn't mean to thank you, I'm on my mobile and can't unthank but your statement is totally without merit and completely wrong.

    I'll link you the National Security documents that prove otherwise. Listed under NSC68, I think. I'll have to double check that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,575 ✭✭✭✭FlutterinBantam


    (I'm at my laptop. Yay! I can use more words to sound less like a crackpot!)

    I like the idea myself. In a perfect, all-democratic world, it could work very well, especially if it was a case that after an election, the previous government's papers became matters of public record.

    However, while there are secretive organisations (communists, juntas, crackpot dictators, de facto dictators corrupt officials, power hungry officials and what have you) that are in positions of sovereign power across the globe, there's no point hobbling yourself when their people can't force them to hobble themselves too. They'll point, laugh, adn say "Why would we bring that kind of trouble to our country? Let's keep power to ourselves, adn save the hassle"

    Serously, if we were to insist on "no compromise, you must conform to our standards of right and wrong, or do no business with us",then we would be starting the Cold War again, but with more nations.

    Diplomacy is compromise.

    Wasting your time there SS, these lads don't understand that kind of common sense logic.


  • Posts: 26,920 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet - Anonymous have started to attack Mastercard and the Swedish prosecution authority in retaliation for Mastercard freezing their accounts.

    Source: The Guardian
    The websites of the international credit card MasterCard and the Swedish prosecution authority are among the latest to be taken offline in the escalating technological battle over WikiLeaks, web censorship and perceived political pressure.

    Co-ordinated attacks by online activists who support the site and its founder Julian Assange – who is in UK custody accused of raping two Swedish women – have seen the websites of the alleged victims' Swedish lawyer disabled, while commercial and political targets have also been subject to attack by a loose coalition of global hackers.

    The Swedish prosecution authority has confirmed its website was attacked last night and this morning. MasterCard was partially paralysed today in revenge for the payment network's decision to cease taking donations to WikiLeaks.

    In an attack referred to as Operation Payback, a group of online activists calling themselves Anonymous appear to have orchestrated a DDoS (distributed denial of service) attack on the financial site, bringing its service to a halt.

    Attempts to access www.mastercard.com have been unsuccessful since shortly after 9.30am.

    The site would say only that it was "experiencing heavy traffic on its external corporate website" but insisted this would not interfere with its ability to process transactions.

    But one payment service company told the BBC its customers were experiencing "a complete loss of service" on MasterCard SecureCode. The credit card company later confirmed that loss.

    MasterCard announced on Monday that it would no longer process donations to WikiLeaks, which it claimed was engaged in illegal activity.

    Visa, Amazon, Swiss bank PostFinance and others have also announced in recent days that they will cease trading with the whistleblowing site.

    The moves have led to concerted attempts by hackers to target companies they deem guilty of "censoring" WikiLeaks.

    Operation Payback, which has been targeting commercial sites that have cut their ties with WikiLeaks for some days, has also made threats to other organisations including Twitter, which it says is suppressing the site.

    "We will fire at anything or anyone that tries to censor WikiLeaks, including multibillion-dollar companies such as PayPal," a statement circulating online, apparently from Operation Payback, said.

    "Twitter, you're next for censoring #WikiLeaks discussion. The major ****storm has begun," it added.

    Twitter has issued a statement denying it has censored the hashtag, and saying confusion had arisen over its "trending" facility.

    Meanwhile it has also emerged that Visa has today ordered DataCell, an IT firm that helps WikiLeaks collect payments, to suspend all of its transactions – even those involving other payees – a day after it cut off all the firm's donations being made to WikiLeaks.

    DataCell, a small Icelandic company that facilitates transfers made by credit cards including Visa and MasterCard, says it will take up "immediate legal actions" and warned that the powerful "duopoly" of Visa and MasterCard could spell "the end of the credit card business worldwide".

    Andreas Fink, chief executive of DataCell, said in a statement: "Putting all payments on hold for seven days or more is one thing but rejecting all further attempts to donate is making the donations impossible.

    "This does clearly create massive financial losses to WikiLeaks, which seems to be the only purpose of this suspension.

    "This is not about the brand of Visa; this is about politics, and Visa should not be involved in this.

    "Visa customers are contacting us in masses to confirm that they really donate and they are not happy about Visa rejecting them. It is obvious that Visa is under political pressure to close us down."

    Earlier, PayPal, which has also been the subject of technological attack since it suspended payments to WikiLeaks last week, appeared to admit that it had taken the step after an intervention from the US state department.

    PayPal's vice-president of platform, Osama Bedier, told an internet conference the site had decided to freeze WikiLeaks' account on 4 December after government representatives said it was engaged in illegal activity.

    "[The US] state department told us these were illegal activities. It was straightforward," he told the LeWeb conference in Paris, adding: "We ... comply with regulations around the world, making sure that we protect our brand."

    Though he later reined back the comments, saying that PayPal had not been contacted directly by the state department but had seen a letter it had sent to WikiLeaks, his remarks will undoubtedly intensify criticism from supporters of WikiLeaks that the site is being targeted for political reasons.

    Operation Payback, which refers to itself as "an anonymous, decentralised movement that fights against censorship and copywrong", and has been linked to the influential internet messageboard 4Chan, argues that such steps "are long strides closer to a world where we cannot say what we think and are unable to express our opinions and ideas".

    It added: "We cannot let this happen. This is why our intention is to find out who is responsible for this failed attempt at censorship.

    "This is why we intend to utilise our resources to raise awareness, attack those against and support those who are helping lead our world to freedom and democracy."

    The MasterCard action was confirmed on Twitter at 9.39am by user @Anon_Operation, who later tweeted: "We are glad to tell you that http://www.mastercard.com/ is down and it's confirmed! #ddos #WikiLeaks Operation: Payback (is a bitch!) #PAYBACK"

    PostFinance was successfully hacked on Monday after it shut down one of WikiLeaks' key bank accounts, accusing Assange of lying. Its service since has been seriously disrupted.

    PayPal has also been targeted a number of times, but while its internal blog was paralysed for more than two hours, the payment processing facility has so far been able to withstand the attacks.

    Other cyber attacks were mounted yesterday on EveryDNS.net, which suspended dealings on 3 December, while Amazon, which removed WikiLeaks content from its EC2 cloud on 1 December, may also be a possible target.

    According to bloggers monitoring the cyber attacks, those involved in the protests have also been targeting the websites of US senator Joe Lieberman, who is an outspoken critic of WikiLeaks, and Sarah Palin, who said Assange should be treated like a terrorist.

    Claes Bergstrom, the lawyer of the two women who claim Assange raped or assaulted them, confirmed his website was shut down overnight, as was the site of a lawyer representing Assange in Sweden. This was the first time such an attack had occurred, he said.

    DDoS attacks, which often involve flooding the target site with requests so that it cannot cope with legitimate communication, are illegal.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    The Daytona peace agreement in Bosnia would never have been achieved with the philosophy preached by this self-publicist! He was recently asked a question about this very issue and of course he never even attempted to answer it. Because he couldn't of course, diplomacy generally requires secrecy, subtlety and tact. To interferre with normal diplomatic relations serves no purpose to anyone, except perhaps himself. I see no relevance in what he is attempting to do. I'm certainly not pro-American or pro-anyone else for that matter, but these leaks contribute nothing positive to the international community except cause untold damage.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,898 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    The Daytona peace agreement in Bosnia would never have been achieved with the philosophy preached by this self-publicist! He was recently asked a question about this very issue and of course he never even attempted to answer it. Because he couldn't of course, diplomacy generally requires secrecy, subtlety and tact. To interferre with normal diplomatic relations serves no purpose to anyone, except perhaps himself. I see no relevance in what he is attempting to do. I'm certainly not pro-American or pro-anyone else for that matter, but these leaks contribute nothing positive to the international community except cause untold damage.

    Other examples given have been the Olso Accords of 1993 and the Camp David Accords of 1979. However, too many people are interested in seeing what the US is up to today to see the bigger picture further away than the nose on their face.
    This whole wikileaks thing got me thinking , would it not be a much better idea for governments to just release all their documents after a time period of say 4 or 5 years.

    Some countries already do this, to varying degrees. For example, in the US a document defaults to declassification after ten years for most issues, 25 years for some. Classification can be extended if certain requirements are met.

    The UK, on the other hand, has the Thirty-Years Rule, which declassifies almost nothing before that date, and almost everything after that date. I'm looking forward to Jan 2012, which I believe will open up all the documents on the Falklands War.

    NTM


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 161 ✭✭jfrmbray


    Surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet - Anonymous have started to attack Mastercard and the Swedish prosecution authority in retaliation for Mastercard freezing their accounts.

    Source: The Guardian

    First time i've completely agreed with anon since the scientology raids


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  • Posts: 3,251 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Reading all this stuff written about wikileaks, I can't help but have this tune in my head. Not saying it's fitting, but it's political and a f*cking earworm.



    (remember folks, this is After Hours. Seriousness is discouraged :) )


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭blubloblu


    The very word 'secrecy' is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths and to secret proceedings. We decided long ago that the dangers of excessive and unwarranted concealment of pertinent facts far outweighed the dangers, which are cited to justify it.

    JFK in address to the American Newspapers Publishers Association in 1961


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 79 ✭✭Carl.Gustav


    www.visa.com is currently down

    imma chargin mah lazer

    row row fight da powah etc etc


  • Posts: 26,920 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Jesus, Anonymous have seriously taken it to the next level now. Scientology was one thing, because it's pretty much a fake religion - but institutions like Visa and Mastercard?

    The internet is fighting back - it seems like we are entering interesting times.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,494 ✭✭✭citizen_p


    ^^ you got here before me



    yeah 4 chan are currently DDoS attacking Visa, why? because they froze Assnge's accounts.


  • Posts: 26,920 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I thought it was Mastercard? Perhaps they're targeting everyone.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 240 ✭✭Axe Rake


    Visa.com and Mastercard.com both down.
    Bloomberg wrote:
    MasterCard, Visa Europe Halting Payments to WikiLeaks


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,494 ✭✭✭citizen_p


    Jesus, Anonymous have seriously taken it to the next level now. Scientology was one thing, because it's pretty much a fake religion - but institutions like Visa and Mastercard?

    The internet is fighting back - it seems like we are entering interesting times.

    where have you been, theyve done things like this before. they get involved with alot of things just for fun, 1 recent one was a competition for a woman to become a model of a clothing company, only for it to be won by a very obvious man in drag.

    i also think its the reason moot won times person of the year award

    also i seen the mastercard one too moments ago, probly just hasnt crashed its server yet.

    the visa crash was on swedish news apparently. doubt you'll see it on RTE to tomarrow


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,485 ✭✭✭Thrill


    I believe that postfinance has suffered the worst. Its still down.

    http://www.postfinance.ch/


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,276 ✭✭✭Memnoch


    Serves them right, it's about time someone fought back and stood up for the little guy.


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