Wikileaks merge (Assange loses extradition appeal)

08-12-2010 12:46PM

See the above, that is exactly what I'm talking about.

Who now can make the case for freeing the internet in China, Russia, anywhere else, when the world sees what happens to the nations that allowed those freedoms?

No one.

Nodin · 08-12-2010 12:51PM

Deleted User wrote: »

See the above, that is exactly what I'm talking about.

Who now can make the case for freeing the internet in China, Russia, anywhere else, when the world sees what happens to the nations that allowed those freedoms?

No one.

'I'd try to leave the room, but I'm scared to try in case they lock the door'

Sticky_Fingers · 08-12-2010 12:56PM

Deleted User wrote: »

See the above, that is exactly what I'm talking about.

Who now can make the case for freeing the internet in China, Russia, anywhere else, when the world sees what happens to the nations that allowed those freedoms?

No one.

Are you trying to justify the censorship of the internet? Perhaps you should look at it from the other side, with the advent of the internet the old ways of media censorship no longer apply and thus we should applaud and defend our reacquired freedom from government propaganda and misinformation.
The genie is out of the bottle and the governments will have no way of stuffing it back in, we've had a taste of internet neutrality and many of us will fight to keep it.

08-12-2010 01:37PM

Justify it? Hell no! I'm scared sh*tless of it. I keep pointing out, this whole saga is giving fodder to those who would censor it.

You think the internet is untouchable? You think the internet will NEVER be touchable? China's web could become the norm.

Nodin · 08-12-2010 01:38PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Justify it? Hell no! I'm scared sh*tless of it. I keep pointing out, this whole saga is giving fodder to those who would censor it.

You think the internet is untouchable? You think the internet will NEVER be touchable? China's web could become the norm.

So as long as we keep our mouths shut and say nothing, we'll still be let say what we want?

Notorious · 08-12-2010 01:42PM

SamHarris wrote: »

All the oil and the strategic location must have passed you.

Troll fail.

The cost of the war in Iraq is much greater than the estimated value of the oil in Iraq.

08-12-2010 01:49PM

Nodin, there's ways and means to bring this stuff to its place in the public eye. Throwing the lot in one huge jolt, while preaching that you want either a fully open gov or a closed soviet-style inefficient one is not it. Easy target is not a good reason

08-12-2010 01:51PM

If it's a case of all open gov or all closed gov, which do you think the world would get.

CLOSED!

karma_ · 08-12-2010 02:18PM

Deleted User wrote: »

If it's a case of all open gov or all closed gov, which do you think the world would get.

CLOSED!

Is this a statement or a question? Is closed your preferred method of governance?

Seriously I'd need an enigma machine to decipher your ramblings.

nyarlothothep · 08-12-2010 02:19PM

Deleted User wrote: »

See the above, that is exactly what I'm talking about.

Who now can make the case for freeing the internet in China, Russia, anywhere else, when the world sees what happens to the nations that allowed those freedoms?

No one.

I half agree with you, yes they'll use it as an excuse to attempt to privatize the net but they were going to do that at some point anyway. Rather than cower in front of these chimps in costumes of authority they call suits, it is best to take them on and destroy their ambitions at least to reform the system quite a bit.

lalee17 · 08-12-2010 02:25PM

has wikileaks been shut down? I haven't been able to access it for the last 3 days.

Sticky_Fingers · 08-12-2010 02:29PM

Deleted User wrote: »

If it's a case of all open gov or all closed gov, which do you think the world would get.

CLOSED!

The people will get whatever government they want, thats how democracy works. For us living in Western world we seem to have forgotten that fundamental principle upon which our institutions are based and have stood by and watched as the people have been tricked, cajoled, scared or simply forced to relinquish more and more control to the governments.

I would suggest that its time for the governments to change their attitude, if they want to stop the embarrassment caused by leaks such as this they should stop acting in such a disgraceful manner. They should open up a bit more and allow some transparency into their operation and motives. If you keep a secret then there will always be people who want to know what it is. John Major once lamented that the only way any of his speeches could possibly make the front pages of the newspapers is if they were left on a train in a brown envelope for a journalist to find.

The longer the Western governments hold on to their precious secrets and carry out shady dealings the more the interest of the public will be aroused, more transparency would help restore peoples trust in our leaders and perhaps give them a much needed shove back onto the correct path. It is our job to ensure that they realise that and that we won't stand for anymore attacks upon our freedom in the name of "security".

Smcgie · 08-12-2010 02:51PM

Notorious wrote: »

Troll fail.

The cost of the war in Iraq is much greater than the estimated value of the oil in Iraq.

I didn't mean to thank you, I'm on my mobile and can't unthank but your statement is totally without merit and completely wrong.

Smcgie · 08-12-2010 02:54PM

This wikileaks Craic shows how capitalist countries can use a communist approach when suits. Its hypocritical of the US to base their country on freedom when infant they wish to sensor information.

smokedeels · 08-12-2010 03:05PM

Remember when we had a medium for communicating information freely and without censorship, and then those lads got out-of-line and actually tried to use it.

biko · 08-12-2010 03:18PM

When the US says "freedom" they mean "freedom under US supervision", kinda like the Chinese.

gizmo · 08-12-2010 04:26PM

Biggins wrote: »

They hadn't????

There was me thinking there was Afgan war logs alone out there somewhere!

The release of the war logs pales in comparison to the release of the diplomatic cables and installation list imo. The former is even defensible and while I was suspicious of their ability to redact enough information to stop any reprisals, I see no defense for the publication of the latter two sets of leaks which is evidently the same way most other nations feel.

Biggins wrote: »

As was shown in the last two days on a number of channels ON CAMERA and reported in the press, the top American White House officials stated words to the effect from their podiums "No, we can't find anything to charge him with yet - but we are trying to look for something!" :pac:

Farcical! :pac: :pac: :pac:

Can you please link to that video, the only hit via a search on Google for words close to those you've listed is this thread.

Biggins wrote: »

Well seeing as the servers are now not in the states, where the Americans are supposed to ONLY have legal jurisdiction, what are they doing and by what legal right, are invoking their tactics onto others outside the boundaries of America?

Pressure has been put on US companies as per the quoted comments earlier. Other companies probably don't want to get involved in this mess and are distancing themselves. I know if I operated a hosting company I wouldn't want the Wikileaks material near my servers.

Biggins wrote: »

Has Julian been officially classed as an "Enemy of the state" ? If so many has missed that bit of news - and he is still legally an innocent person beyond the borders of United states - for the activities the Americans want him for! You know, those Americans that are within their own borders and say they hold their laws to such a high respect and self-evident!

What are you even trying to say here? Some US politicians have certainly used similar wording to describe him and in many cases, they'd be correct, he facilitated the publication of secret US documents, it's espionage at the very least.

Thrill · 08-12-2010 04:27PM

Mastercard and Visa cards recently cut off of wikileaks funds. The following cable release may explain why they were so willing to quickly drop Wikileaks and cut of funds.

The cable is dated Monday, 01 February 2010, so it's pretty recent....

US embassy cables: Revealed: US secret operation to help Visa and Mastercard

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/246424

billymitchell · 08-12-2010 04:27PM

Anybody notice that the old boys from 4chan and a few of their mates decided to get revenge this morning:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Payback

Maybe they we responsible for the BOI mess???

Thrill · 08-12-2010 04:51PM

PayPal admits US pressure over WikiLeaks account freeze

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/dec/08/paypal-us-pressure-wikileaks-mastercard

PayPal today admitted it suspended payments to WikiLeaks after an intervention from the US State Department.

The site's vice-president of platform, Osama Bedier, told an internet conference the site had decided to freeze WikiLeaks's account on 4 December after government representatives said it was engaged in illegal activity.

"State Dept told us these were illegal activities. It was straightforward," he told the LeWeb conference in Paris, adding: "We ... comply with regulations around the world, making sure that we protect our brand."

PayPal is the first major corporation to admit that its decision to suspend dealings with WikiLeaks was a result of US government pressure.

nacho libre · 08-12-2010 05:09PM

Governments: Yes, we are wiretapping the public for their own good. If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear.

The people reply: Yes, we are wiretapping our governments for their own good. If they have nothing to hide they have nothing to fear.

08-12-2010 05:17PM

Bloody hell, change the way governance is done? No right to think for yourself, but submit your opinion to ze commune before making decisions? Night as well ask the workers to rise in civil war across the Western world, destroying the 65 year peace! >:(

08-12-2010 05:22PM

Why stop with government? Let's demand that every negotiation across the globe on every business deal be webcast and voted on! The People have a right to their commune!

08-12-2010 05:27PM

Oh and guys? You know that house you were going to buy? And the second hand car? THE PEOPLE DEMAND TRANSCRIPTS OF THE PRICE NEGOTIATIONS! FOR THE COMMUNE!

karma_ · 08-12-2010 05:28PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Bloody hell, change the way governance is done? No right to think for yourself, but submit your opinion to ze commune before making decisions? Night as well ask the workers to rise in civil war across the Western world, destroying the 65 year peace! >:(

65 years of peace, are you smoking fúcking crack?

08-12-2010 05:31PM

Double post, sorry folks

08-12-2010 05:32PM

(I'm multiple posting because I'm on a mobile and have limited characters) Honestly, shouting demands at a faceless bogeyman group does not work if you want then to change their ways. But beating them with a stick makes them want to take away your stick.

08-12-2010 05:36PM

karma_ wrote: »

65 years of peace, are you smoking fÃºcking crack?

So you'd like the return of war to Europe and the United States then? A Glorious Revolution to kill the capitalist czars and create a beautiful world of your design?

Sticky_Fingers · 08-12-2010 05:36PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Bloody hell, change the way governance is done? No right to think for yourself, but submit your opinion to ze commune before making decisions? Night as well ask the workers to rise in civil war across the Western world, destroying the 65 year peace! >:(

Here we f@cking go, the red terror argument. No one is asking for every single decision to be put to the people but just a little accountability and transparency being applied to the rule of government and a halt on their attacks on the freedom of speech and expression.

As for your ridiculous claim that there has been no major conflict in the West over the past 65 years, you have a point but only because we finally decided crapping on our own porch was stupid and it makes more sense to wage wars against the poor yellow and brown people who dare to oppose us and our glorious democracy.

Deleted User wrote: »

Why stop with government? Let's demand that every negotiation across the globe on every business deal be webcast and voted on! The People have a right to their commune!

You know who you are starting to sound like, good old Bill O Reilly, please for your own sake and our sanity try to come up with better arguments other then Wikileaks are dirty socialist, liberal deviants who want to destroy our democracy and take away our freedoms by having the gall and the cheek to presume they are actually allowed to use those very same freedoms.

karma_ · 08-12-2010 05:39PM

Deleted User wrote: »

So you'd like the return of war to Europe and the United States then? A Glorious Revolution to kill the capitalist czars and create a beautiful world of your design?

Ahh so if it's peaceful in Europe and the US, that's all that matters, well why the fúck didn't you say so.

Each of your posts become more moronic from the last, you are like the proverbial monkey with a typewriter, maybe one day you will actually post something that makes some kind of sense.
Mod Poster banned for this post.

Wikileaks merge (Assange loses extradition appeal)

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