Incorrect LED sign and intercom station announcements on trains.

Run_to_da_hills · 07-12-2010 11:32PM #1

Twice I have been on the Dart recently where the approaching station announcement and LED signs in the carriages were out of synchro.

Coming into Blackrock this evening the approaching station was "Sandycove" according to the LED sign and announcement. It seems to be more prevalent on the Toyku units.

Who is responsible for this? Is there a way of contacting the driver to correct this or at least switch it off?

Grand for most of us but could be confusing to the elderly or those not familiar with the line .

loyatemu · 08-12-2010 01:08AM

don't know how often you travel on the Dart but I would say the PIS displays are wrong or off at least 50% of the time. You'd think it'd be an easy enough thing to get right (especially given the non-complexity of our network) but not for Irish Rail and they don't care either.

Theres a very lengthy thread on the RUI message board tracking inaccurate displays - on diesel trains they're often hilariously inaccurate, trains for Drogheda displaying "Farranfore" etc..

Run_to_da_hills · 08-12-2010 01:18AM

loyatemu wrote: »

don't know how often you travel on the Dart but I would say the PIS displays are wrong or off at least 50% of the time. You'd think it'd be an easy enough thing to get right (especially given the non-complexity of our network) but not for Irish Rail and they don't care either.

Theres a very lengthy thread on the RUI message board tracking inaccurate displays - on diesel trains they're often hilariously inaccurate, trains for Drogheda displaying "Farranfore" etc..

I use the Dart quite a bit, probably down to where I was sitting in the carriage or if I had my Ipod on.

ClovenHoof · 08-12-2010 11:07AM

loyatemu wrote: »

don't know how often you travel on the Dart but I would say the PIS displays are wrong or off at least 50% of the time.

The afternoon train into Sligo the other day had "Waterford" on the LED destination board as it pulled into Mulligar Station as it arrived in Sligo I looked at the LED board and it had been changed to "Westport".

It has gone beyond a joke at this stage. Are they set by the driver or are they somekind of software which is key'd in from a central point?

Cookie_Monster · 08-12-2010 11:29AM

time to go back to issuing a4 pages and markers perhaps :pac:

highlydebased · 08-12-2010 11:32AM

I'd imagine its set/controlled by the driver. But many of them probably dont care- similar to bus drivers who dont bother setting the number/route properly on the bus.

KC61 · 08-12-2010 11:37AM

It's a software issue apparently - nothing to do with the drivers.

Run_to_da_hills · 08-12-2010 11:58AM

I have decided to edit the title as one poster pointed out, its not just a problem on Darts.

Neon-Circles wrote: »

I'd imagine its set/controlled by the driver. But many of them probably dont care- similar to bus drivers who dont bother setting the number/route properly on the bus.

They are probably looking for more money to do it. :pac:

KC61 wrote: »

It's a software issue apparently - nothing to do with the drivers.

They should switch the damn thing off, as simple as that.

loyatemu · 08-12-2010 12:58PM

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

They should switch the damn thing off, as simple as that.

I suspect the drivers have to key in what "route" they are driving and the software does the rest - not sure if it uses GPS or track circuits to determine location but it seems to get easily confused. As you say, the drivers should be aware of what it is doing and if it is wrong they should reset it or turn it off.

I've frequently seen trains pulling up to 2 seperate platforms in Connolly both displaying the same destination at the same time (usually "Maynooth"). For a non-regular user of the trains, this is worse than no information, its disastrously confusing.

Run_to_da_hills · 08-12-2010 01:05PM

Perhaps re introduce the larger billboard size station signs again so people can see clearly when they arrive at their destination..

Cookie_Monster · 08-12-2010 01:10PM

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Perhaps re introduce the larger billboard size station signs again so people can see clearly when they arrive at their destination..

not much good to you if you got on the "Maynooth" train to Sligo though...

ClovenHoof · 08-12-2010 01:21PM

KC61 wrote: »

It's a software issue apparently - nothing to do with the drivers.

Well if that is the case they then should be switched off and a simple name card placed into the window?

highlydebased · 08-12-2010 03:03PM

If its a software issue why is it not being sorted? This has been ongoing for years in the case of 29000's. I'm sure its only a small issue. Sake!

Breezer · 08-12-2010 03:05PM

KC61 wrote: »

It's a software issue apparently - nothing to do with the drivers.

But presumably the software is designed for this sole purpose? How on earth was it brought to market with a bug in it that effectively completely stops it working? Moreover, why did Irish Rail buy it if that was the case, and how much did it cost?

Cookie_Monster · 08-12-2010 03:13PM

Breezer wrote: »

But presumably the software is designed for this sole purpose?
How on earth was it brought to market with a bug in it that effectively completely stops it working?
Moreover, why did Irish Rail buy it if that was the case, and how much did it cost?

presumably its a reasonably specific piece of software the manufacturer uses

These thing can happen, but should be quickly and easily fixed by manufacturer with patching releases

if it was unknow what could they have done about it? they should of course have insisted on full tech support as part of the package, but somehow I doubt they did.

foggy_lad · 08-12-2010 03:28PM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

time to go back to issuing a4 pages and markers perhaps :pac:

or the chalk and write destination on a few of the cars like used to happen with the old mark 3 coaches

Breezer · 08-12-2010 05:56PM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

presumably its a reasonably specific piece of software the manufacturer uses

This is my point: it's a specific piece of software, designed to do one job, and it can't do it, meaning it's pretty useless.

These thing can happen, but should be quickly and easily fixed by manufacturer with patching releases

if it was unknow what could they have done about it? they should of course have insisted on full tech support as part of the package, but somehow I doubt they did.

Exactly. I'm not suggesting Irish Rail should be omniscient, but I would've thought this would have come to light when testing the units. It has certainly come to light at this stage, and the problem isn't new, so it should certainly have been fixed under contractual obligations as you say.

Alun · 08-12-2010 06:18PM

Breezer wrote: »

This is my point: it's a specific piece of software, designed to do one job, and it can't do it, meaning it's pretty useless.

But we haven't established that it actually is a s/w problem though, have we? My money is on operator error to be honest.

Jehuty42 · 08-12-2010 07:24PM

It probably works as suggested, the driver enters the route(the ID you see on IE's realtime page) (or, more likely, the driver just turns it on and it reads the ID from the signalling equipment), which is a list of destinations with some location info. As the train moves, the software updates the displays. The software would need an input of human read-able strings for names of destinations to match to its internal representation of destinations.

I suspect the problem is because this input to the software is wrong- the list of destinations is probably badly formatted or missing entries and out of date. So when the software tries to access and show the name of its destination from a location that should(from a human's point of view, semantically) have the string "Maynooth", that position in the input is actually "Carlow" or something since the list doesn't have the same number or order of destinations that the software expects. Not drivers or manufacturer at fault, but whoever maintains this software within IE- the software worked fine on delivery, but hasn't been fed the right data as new stations come on stream or are removed, as routes are changed. Garbage in, garbage out.

Cookie_Monster · 08-12-2010 07:28PM

Alun wrote: »

But we haven't established that it actually is a s/w problem though, have we? My money is on operator error to be honest.

the frontal display are likely the drivers fault, the internal DART ones would be software based on location rather than driver input I would imagine

Rashers72 · 08-12-2010 07:29PM

The real question is can you find someone in Irish Rail who either cares, or commits to fixing it. Customer Service in Irish Rail has hit rock bottom recently. No announcements during delays, and never any staff on the platforms when you need them.
I have been using Irish trains for the past 20 years, and can safely say that despite the millions invested in recent years, the customer is now so far down the list, it is saddening. Forget about all the PR guys on the radio saying how great Irish Rail is, talk to daily users, and get the truth!:mad:

Alun · 08-12-2010 08:49PM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

the frontal display are likely the drivers fault, the internal DART ones would be software based on location rather than driver input I would imagine

Mostly what I see is that the locations displayed are in the right order, they're just out of synch by a stop or two which suggests to me that someone (i.e. the driver) has initialized the system incorrectly by, for example, entering the wrong current location at the start of a run or maybe forgetting to do it at all until after a stop or two and then initializing it too late. I'm just guessing really, nothing to back up that assertion.

Carawaystick · 08-12-2010 10:04PM

I used to get a train in Balbriggan that said it was going to Castleconnell ( & as Gaeilge freisin)
I was on a train last Tuesday, that was over an hour late leaving Pearse. as we eventually left Connolly heading northbound, the magic man on the announcements said "the next station is Tara Street"

I've seen the internal displays display the words backwords
ekil siht
and the also the sentences backwords
siht ekil

Also saw a sign in tara st this evening saying Darts had a 69% punctuality record for the time before 11th November.

BenShermin · 08-12-2010 11:23PM

In Poland the outside of most train carriages have a slot where a wooden tile showing train information is displayed. In my experience I've never seen this information to be wrong or misleading. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!!

Irish Rail really need to look at National Rail (UK) in operating modern PIS, I've honestly never been on a train in the UK showing the wrong information. I've been on trains where the system has broke down, however the conductor or driver has always just turned the system off and reverted to the old human announcement system when this happens. How bloody hard is it to do that?

kingshankly · 08-12-2010 11:51PM

Alun wrote: »

But we haven't established that it actually is a s/w problem though, have we? My money is on operator error to be honest.

i will take that bet thank you very much

Run_to_da_hills · 09-12-2010 12:15AM

BenShermin wrote: »

In Poland the outside of most train carriages have a slot where a wooden tile showing train information is displayed. In my experience I've never seen this information to be wrong or misleading. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!!

FS do similar.

KC61 · 09-12-2010 11:38AM

As I said above - it is a software issue - nothing to do with drivers.

Cookie_Monster · 09-12-2010 11:41AM

KC61 wrote: »

As I said above - it is a software issue - nothing to do with drivers.

proof / source?

KC61 · 09-12-2010 12:08PM

Do you have to doubt everything?

This was done to death on Rail Users website - there is a flaw with the 29k software hence the crazy destinations that appear such as Campile or Castleconnell.

What the problem is solving it I don't know - but there is a software problem.

And as Kingshankly is a train driver I would think he knows what is talking about.

kingshankly · 09-12-2010 12:15PM

every train journey be it passenger freight empty has a train Id (so you can be contacted via radio) when you enter your Id in the radio the computer on the 29s SHOULD recognize this journey when activated.

Cookie_Monster · 09-12-2010 12:15PM

KC61 wrote: »

Do you have to doubt everything?

no, but if you post 1 line statements claiming to know without any kind of backup I think I have the right to ask. especially since you do it so often yet have nothing to do with CIE apart from being a passenger.

Incorrect LED sign and intercom station announcements on trains.

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