Are we Vikings or Celts or What?

fontanalis · 07-12-2010 03:58PM

Rockery Woman wrote: »

I thought we descended from the Basque people.

Would love to know where the brown eyed black haired Irish descended from ....

I would like to think I descended from the Vikings to be honest:D

Why is it a mystery? What should an irish person look like?

whatdoicare · 07-12-2010 04:25PM

According to a documentary on Irish genetics we all originally (before all the mixing with vikings and celts and such) came from the same stock as those in the Basque region in Spain. I can believe that - we look quite similar to them.

Krusader · 07-12-2010 04:37PM

In my opinion, we are from Northern Spain (Ibero-Celts) the Brigantes or Milesians if you will, who settled in Brigantia/Galicia/Asturas around that area of Spain/Portugal. Although Galician is a Romance language it's own name Galego, i find is quite similar to our own forms of gaelic

Gaeilge/Gaoluinn - Irish
Gaelg - Manx
Gàidhlig - Scots Gaelic
Galego - Galician

fontanalis · 07-12-2010 04:41PM

Crosáidí wrote: »

In my opinion, we are from Northern Spain (Ibero-Celts) the Brigantes or Milesians if you will, who settled in Brigantia/Galicia/Asturas around that area of Spain/Portugal. Although Galician is a Romance language it's own name Galego, i find is quite similar to our own forms of gaelic

Gaeilge/Gaoluinn - Irish
Gaelg - Manx
Gàidhlig - Scots Gaelic
Galego - Galician

Weren't the Brigantes also in Northern England (any link to Saint Brigid, as i've read it's from an old pagan goddess myth)?
I also find it interesting that the Irish for foreigner is Gall, possibly conicidence.
Apparently the lagnauge that came before Q Celtic was supposed to be Celt-Iberian, then again did the language move or the people?

Aldito · 07-12-2010 04:49PM

English as well

Krusader · 07-12-2010 05:00PM

fontanalis wrote: »

Weren't the Brigantes also in Northern England (any link to Saint Brigid, as i've read it's from an old pagan goddess myth)?
I also find it interesting that the Irish for foreigner is Gall, possibly conicidence.
Apparently the lagnauge that came before Q Celtic was supposed to be Celt-Iberian, then again did the language move or the people?

Ptolemy had named an Irish tribe in 2AD as Brigantes, they were down in the South East of Ireland

As regards Brighid, the local people where still worshipping her so the Church decided if you can't beat them join them, so they canonized her

death wish · 07-12-2010 05:05PM

so did the celts and the vikings look completely different? ive blonde hair so im unlikey descended from the celts.

fontanalis · 07-12-2010 05:07PM

Crosáidí wrote: »

Ptolemy had named an Irish tribe in 2AD as Brigantes, they were down in the South East of Ireland

As regards Brighid, the local people where still worshipping her so the Church decided if you can't beat them join them, so they canonized her

Yes, they are actually mentioned on the map I posted above. For some reason I thought I posted a map that showed a group called the Menapi down there. Now was the Brigantes a tribe name given to them by the Romans or did they call themselves that?
Isn't a big problme of trying to figure out ancient irleand that we have very little written records from the people of the time about themselves and if we are relying on Roman descriptions that may be not be accurate then we are going down the wrong road from the out set.

newmug · 07-12-2010 05:10PM

We're all from monkeys. We share 99% of our genes with chimps.

Of the remaining 1%, we break down into Caucasian, Oriental, and African.

In Europe, people are 99% Caucasian. Of the remaining 1%, we break down into Celts/Gaels, Vikings, Normans, Saxons etc.

In Celtic/Gaelic nations, people are (obviously) 99% Celtic/Gaelic. The remaining 1% breaks down into regional gene pools, based on centuries of not-being-able-to-travel

And thats how it goes baby!

fontanalis · 07-12-2010 05:12PM

death wish wrote: »

so did the celts and the vikings look completely different? ive blonde hair so im unlikey descended from the celts.

The term celt covers people (languages and culutres) that once lived under different names over different times from an area that stretched from Switzerland to Ireland and trying to pigeon hole the term into one neat package is really over simplifying things.
The Vikings were made up of groups from what is now Denmark, Sweden and Norway.
From what I've heard the tall blonde Scandanavian stereotype doesn't accurately cover Swedish and Norwegian people, supposedly it's more applicable to Denmark (a vast over simplification so I'm open to correction).
Most of my family has dark hair and my sister has blonde, but that doesn't mean we are all celts and she is a viking.

fontanalis · 07-12-2010 05:12PM

newmug wrote: »

We're all from monkeys. We share 99% of our genes with chimps.

Of the remaining 1%, we break down into Caucasian, Oriental, and African.

In Europe, people are 99% Caucasian. Of the remaining 1%, we break down into Celts/Gaels, Vikings, Normans, Saxons etc.

In Celtic/Gaelic nations, people are (obviously) 99% Celtic/Gaelic. The remaining 1% breaks down into regional gene pools, based on centuries of not-being-able-to-travel

And thats how it goes baby!

Really?

death wish · 07-12-2010 05:26PM

fontanalis wrote: »

The term celt covers people (languages and culutres) that once lived under different names over different times from an area that stretched from Switzerland to Ireland and trying to pigeon hole the term into one neat package is really over simplifying things.
The Vikings were made up of groups from what is now Denmark, Sweden and Norway.
From what I've heard the tall blonde Scandanavian stereotype doesn't accurately cover Swedish and Norwegian people, supposedly it's more applicable to Denmark (a vast over simplification so I'm open to correction).
Most of my family has dark hair and my sister has blonde, but that doesn't mean we are all celts and she is a viking.

i suppose

jackiebaron · 07-12-2010 05:37PM

TeddyTedson wrote: »

How would I know if I was a bit inbred? Would I get diseases? Isn't there people in Ireland who found out after they had kids together that they're related and they're having more? What are the consequences of this? Is it better to to have kids with different races then? I'm not fully Irish so does that mean I'm not inbred?

Does your mother resemble your father? If so, there's your answer, freak!

fontanalis · 07-12-2010 05:46PM

jackiebaron wrote: »

Does your mother resemble your father? If so, there's your answer, freak!

Or if you're father is your sister?
Incest increases the chance of genetically transmitted diseases by 50%, a good article below.
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/08/the-individual-social-risks-of-cousin-marriage/

newmug · 07-12-2010 06:31PM

fontanalis wrote: »

Really?

Pretty much! You cant say, "such a race is tall, or such a race is blonde". That may be partially true due to local isolations, but by no means does it define a race. All human traits are distributed throughout all races. Perfect example, Leonardo DiCaprio, a blonde Caucasian, has what people would call "Chinese" eyes. You get big people and small people in every race.

Certain genetic traits have dominated due to evolutionary reasons, not racial reasons. For example, in colder climates, from Ireland to Mongolia, peoples skin is whiter than that of people at the equator. This is to better deal with the sun. You can clearly see peoples skin getting darker as you go south, through the Med areas, the middle east, and eventually you get very dark skinned people in central Africa. Even descendants of white settlers in South Africa, from Dutch countries, have darker skin than modern Dutch people. Its evolution adapting, not racial differences.

fontanalis · 07-12-2010 06:53PM

newmug wrote: »

Pretty much! You cant say, "such a race is tall, or such a race is blonde". That may be partially true due to local isolations, but by no means does it define a race. All human traits are distributed throughout all races. Perfect example, Leonardo DiCaprio, a blonde Caucasian, has what people would call "Chinese" eyes. You get big people and small people in every race.

Certain genetic traits have dominated due to evolutionary reasons, not racial reasons. For example, in colder climates, from Ireland to Mongolia, peoples skin is whiter than that of people at the equator. This is to better deal with the sun. You can clearly see peoples skin getting darker as you go south, through the Med areas, the middle east, and eventually you get very dark skinned people in central Africa. Even descendants of white settlers in South Africa, from Dutch countries, have darker skin than modern Dutch people. Its evolution adapting, not racial differences.

I agree, your first post just seemd a bit over simplified.
Your comment about Dutch settlers in South Africa is interesting (going back to a comment someone made about irish people having dark features); is that a case of just having darker skin because they are exposed to sun more than people in the Netherlands or are there selection pressures involved. On the West coast of Ireland people tended to work more outdoors in farming and fishing so dark features may be inevitable (or they are a result of southern european ancestry)??

limklad · 07-12-2010 07:45PM

TeddyTedson wrote: »

What are we? Where did we come from?

We are what I describe as a mongrel race. There a bit of everything in us. Original settlers, celts, anglo (Normans), welsh (Normans), Vikings (raping and pillaging our wimen), French (Normans), Scottish settlers, English settlers, Spanish (Spanish Armada wrecking off the west), Some small German settlers over the centries. And In recent times, Eastern European, Africans and Asians. Even the Pacific Islanders are getting into Cork playing in the GAA team.

sandmanporto · 07-12-2010 09:55PM

This may be a bit innaccurate but I always thought that people from the East/Midlands/South etc looked a lot different from the people in Connaught.. Didnt Cromwell say "to hell or to Connaught"?. Maybe that has bearing on my observation, which is why our genetic map is quiet like the UKs??

sandmanporto · 07-12-2010 09:58PM

limklad wrote: »

We are what I describe as a mongrel race. There a bit of everything in us. Original settlers, celts, anglo (Normans), welsh (Normans), Vikings (raping and pillaging our wimen), French (Normans), Scottish settlers, English settlers, Spanish (Spanish Armada wrecking off the west), Some small German settlers over the centries. And In recent times, Eastern European, Africans and Asians. Even the Pacific Islanders are getting into Cork playing in the GAA team.

Eastern Europeans, africans and asians have not integrated enough yet to influence to nations gene pool. I assume you are talking about O'halpin, who was part fillipino

thats just a case of "the 1 person in the village's son"..
No offence intended there people

Esel · 08-12-2010 04:16AM

Rockery Woman wrote: »

Isnt there a few "Mac" names that translate to "son of priest or son of bishop"?

Crosáidí wrote: »

Mac an Easpaig - Bishop
Mac an tSagairt - McTaggart

For clarity:

Mac an Easpaig usually anglicised as McAnespie
Mac an tSagairt usually anglicised as McEntaggart

Saila · 08-12-2010 05:17AM

TeddyTedson wrote: »

How would I know if I was a bit inbred?

if you look like a knacker.

sandmanporto · 08-12-2010 06:12AM

http://www.tdaxp.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/genetic_map_of_europe.jpg

the irish arent really european, they are individual!
If you look at an Irish person, they have no real disintive qualities of a continental person.
They neither look like norhern europeans or southern europeans..
As for aesthethics, we aren't the most attractive race of people I can agree with.
We also have a negligiable blonde population in Europe.
I always used to think the Irish originated from Africa but I will study this before I can confirm. The Irish are definately different to the Scottish and Nordic people from my experience. The mind boggles!!!

I always wished irish people looked like swedes, but life isnt that kind!

bottom line, the irish are individual and not bothered about!

sandmanporto · 08-12-2010 06:22AM

Saila wrote: »

if you look like a knacker.

Thats a bit general.. you must understand, everyone in a country has a certain look. You are referring to a particular irish person as a knacker! well, you are irish therefore you are genetically related to the person you label knacker! Dont stereotype, because remember what they said in england NO DOGS NO BLACKS NO IRISH! knacker or not you're irish! mud sticks! DONT JUDGE!

Seaneh · 08-12-2010 09:47AM

sandmanporto wrote: »

I assume you are talking about O'halpin, who was part fillipino thats just a case of "the 1 person in the village's son"

He is Half Irish and Half Rotuman, not Filipino at all. His mum is from one of the Rotuma Islands which belong to Fiji but the people who are from there tend to look more Samoan or Tongan than Fijian.

Either way, thousands of miles form The Philippines...

newmug · 08-12-2010 10:08AM

fontanalis wrote: »

I agree, your first post just seemd a bit over simplified.
Your comment about Dutch settlers in South Africa is interesting (going back to a comment someone made about irish people having dark features); is that a case of just having darker skin because they are exposed to sun more than people in the Netherlands or are there selection pressures involved.

Probably a bit of both, but I'd bet selection would win out. In 100,000 years, the SA Dutch will look more like Nelson Mandela than Jap Stam, eventhough they both originated from the same Dutch gene pool, and even without crossbreeding with SA native Africans! They may even be considered a separate race at that stage. Which begs the question, what defines race in the first place? Afterall, it is only the last 0.0001% genetic difference between people that we're talking about!

fontanalis wrote: »

On the West coast of Ireland people tended to work more outdoors in farming and fishing so dark features may be inevitable (or they are a result of southern european ancestry)??

Probably a bit of both aswell.

limklad wrote: »

We are what I describe as a mongrel race. There a bit of everything in us. Original settlers, celts, anglo (Normans), welsh (Normans), Vikings (raping and pillaging our wimen), French (Normans), Scottish settlers, English settlers, Spanish (Spanish Armada wrecking off the west), Some small German settlers over the centries. And In recent times, Eastern European, Africans and Asians. Even the Pacific Islanders are getting into Cork playing in the GAA team.

Ah yes, but who did the Anglicans descend from? Who did the Normans descend from? All Caucasians are 99.999% the same. As mentioned above, its only minute differences were talking about, splitting hairs really! All Caucasians are a mongrel race!

Fratton Fred · 08-12-2010 10:45AM

limklad wrote: »

We are what I describe as a mongrel race. There a bit of everything in us. Original settlers, celts, anglo (Normans), welsh (Normans), Vikings (raping and pillaging our wimen), French (Normans), Scottish settlers, English settlers, Spanish (Spanish Armada wrecking off the west), Some small German settlers over the centries. And In recent times, Eastern European, Africans and Asians. Even the Pacific Islanders are getting into Cork playing in the GAA team.

I would guess there was a large French influence from the Huegenots as well.

Krusader · 08-12-2010 11:38AM

fontanalis wrote: »

Yes, they are actually mentioned on the map I posted above. For some reason I thought I posted a map that showed a group called the Menapi down there. Now was the Brigantes a tribe name given to them by the Romans or did they call themselves that?
Isn't a big problme of trying to figure out ancient irleand that we have very little written records from the people of the time about themselves and if we are relying on Roman descriptions that may be not be accurate then we are going down the wrong road from the out set.

It would of been a name given to them by Romans, I suppose

sandmanporto · 08-12-2010 04:18PM

Seaneh wrote: »

He is Half Irish and Half Rotuman, not Filipino at all. His mum is from one of the Rotuma Islands which belong to Fiji but the people who are from there tend to look more Samoan or Tongan than Fijian.

Either way, thousands of miles form The Philippines...

Oh ok. I heard from someone who got it wrong then

TeddyTedson · 08-01-2011 04:43AM

Vikings are weird

Lirange · 08-01-2011 04:50AM

TeddyTedson wrote: »

Vikings are weird

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1l9r60oH8g

Are we Vikings or Celts or What?

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