Is Meat Murder?

Havermeyer · 03-12-2010 06:09AM

Won't somebody please think of the pepper sauce.

Pherekydes · 03-12-2010 09:27AM

OutlawPete wrote: »

Ah, but they have no other way of getting their nutrition.

So? Just because we eat meat doesn't make it murder. I thought that was the point of the thread.

OutlawPete · 03-12-2010 10:38AM

Pherekydes wrote: »

So? Just because we eat meat doesn't make it murder. I thought that was the point of the thread.

I was addressing a point that was made, which was obvious.

You gonna be pedantic about all my posts today?

--Kaiser-- · 03-12-2010 10:39AM

OutlawPete wrote: »

Ah, but they have no other way of getting their nutrition.

Humans can get all vitamins, minerals and amino acids from eating a vegan diet.

In fact, when humans eat animal flesh, it must be broken down in the body to amino acids first before the body can utilize them.

Bollox Pete, Bollox.
Humans cannot live naturally on an all vegan diet. Vitamin B12 is only available from animal sources, and is utterly essential. Low levels of B12 lead to brain shrinkage, absence leads to death.

Secondly, anything you eat, including vegetables, has to be broken down before it can be digested, so that argument is moot. Cooked meat is much easier digested than raw meat.

Meat doesn't act as an opiate either. Wheat and sugar, they both have an opiate effect on the brain. People crave meat because it's tasty and nutrient dense, any 'addiction' is based on Pavlovian response to it's favourable effects.

BigDuffman · 03-12-2010 10:44AM

thenutflush wrote: »

No, but force feeding Morrissey fillet steaks until he dies, is.

Lets do that.

Speaking of Morrissey, I was working the point when played a few years back and that prick bans all meat from being sold where he is performing...:mad:

This militant bullsh!t is intolerable. I would love to become a famous artist and ban all non-meat products and see the uproar from crusty vegans.

ilovelamp2000 · 03-12-2010 10:50AM

There's only one way to settle this: Vegans and Vegetarians v The Normal People.

A fight to the death.

fakearms123 · 03-12-2010 11:04AM

If you throw a cat onto a bonfire everyone goes mental and starts fapping on about animal rights but when a cow is tossed onto a fire everyone goes mental for a lovely bun burger! Moral of the story is don't trust asians

dr.bollocko · 03-12-2010 11:14AM

I understand people saying they don't eat animals because they feel it's morally wrong or don't like the taste.
That's fine. I disagree with you but I respect your right to your own opinion.
To claim a vegetarian diet is somehow healthier than one with which meat is involved simply because meat has been removed from that diet is just a lie though.

sensibleken · 03-12-2010 11:20AM

why is there one of these fúcking threads every bleedin week. some people wat meat, some people dont. its none of anyone elses business. preachy meat eaters and preachy vegans can all go the way of preachy christians as far as im concerned

--Kaiser-- · 03-12-2010 11:24AM

dr.bollocko wrote: »

I understand people saying they don't eat animals because they feel it's morally wrong or don't like the taste.
That's fine. I disagree with you but I respect your right to your own opinion.
To claim a vegetarian diet is somehow healthier than one with which meat is involved simply because meat has been removed from that diet is just a lie though.

If people want to subject themselves to such a diet, fine. What gets my gander up is the possibility of these people inflicting such a diet on their kids. There have been multiple cases of children of vegan parents dying of malnutrition and starvation:

http://naturalhygienesociety.org/diet-veganbaby.html

I know there are those who would argue that the parents didn't educate themselves on the proper way to eat vegan, but I think if they did educate themselves properly (and not from 'confirmation bias' type sources), they would know that the vegan diet is not healthy or ideal.

OutlawPete · 03-12-2010 11:24AM

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Bollox Pete, Bollox.

I take it that was a statement on what you were about to post.

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Humans cannot live naturally on an all vegan diet. Vitamin B12 is only available from animal sources, and is utterly essential. Low levels of B12 lead to brain shrinkage, absence leads to death.

B12 debate? What is this? 1998.

You'll be telling me soon that Vegans must combine plant proteins to get a complete protein.

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Secondly, anything you eat, including vegetables, has to be broken down before it can be digested, so that argument is moot.

Why are you implying that I said anything to the contrary, I didn't:

OutlawPete wrote: »

.. vegetable proteins would be far easier on the human digestion system.

See, what I actually said, was not that vegetable proteins didn't need to be broken down, but that they were far easier on human digestion system, which they are, particularly when pitted against over done meat.

Which is why I eat a mainly raw protein diet (Sashimi, Lamb Carpaccio etc).

When a cow eats grass, it is the amino acids from that, that then create it's flesh. Humans also have the ability to make flesh from plant sourced amino acids.

You do know that there are Vegan body builders that don't protein supplements.

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Meat doesn't act as an opiate either. Wheat and sugar, they both have an opiate effect on the brain.

Read the post again, I never said it did.

I said if someone was "starving" they could easily eat two Chickens in KFC and that was because of the opiate effect of eating that roasted chicken.

You do that they cover chicken in Breadcrumbs, right?

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

People crave meat because it's tasty and nutrient dense, any 'addiction' is based on Pavlovian response to it's favourable effects.

People eat more cooked meat than they ever would raw.

Cooking animal fats make them a thousand times more palatable than raw animal fats. Again, people would easily eat a plate of sausages, would they be so keen to eat a plate of raw sausages?

Cooking animal foods leads to people overeating.

Not that cooked animal foods are the most detrimental cooked foodstuffs, that honour easily goes to cooked grain. A foodstuff (Wheat, Rice etc) which would be inedible to humans if not for the cooking process.

Farmtrader · 03-12-2010 11:27AM

Nothing like a good tender fillet of bambi . How would you feel about trying a bit of Lassie ?

dr.bollocko · 03-12-2010 11:27AM

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

If people want to subject themselves to such a diet, fine. What gets my gander up is the possibility of these people inflicting such a diet on their kids. There have been multiple cases of children of vegan parents dying of malnutrition and starvation:

http://naturalhygienesociety.org/diet-veganbaby.html

I know there are those who would argue that the parents didn't educate themselves on the proper way to eat vegan, but I think if they did educate themselves properly (and not from 'confirmation bias' type sources), they would know that the vegan diet is not healthy or ideal.

Similarly with pets as well as kids. That don't make much sense to me.

--Kaiser-- · 03-12-2010 11:34AM

OutlawPete wrote: »

I take it that was a statement on what you were about to post.

B12 debate? What is this? 1998.

You'll be telling me soon that Vegans must combine plant proteins to get a complete protein.

Why are you implying that I said anything to the contrary, I didn't:

See, what I actually said, was not that vegetable proteins didn't need to be broken down, but that they were far easier on human digestion system, which they are, particularly when pitted against over done meat.

Which is why I eat a mainly raw protein diet (Sashimi, Lamb Carpaccio etc).

When a cow eats grass, it is the amino acids from that, that then create it's flesh. Humans also have the ability to make flesh from plant sourced amino acids.

You do know that there are Vegan body builders that don't protein supplements.

Read the post again, I never said it did.

I said if someone was "starving" they could easily eat two Chickens in KFC and that was because of the opiate effect of eating that roasted chicken.

You do that they cover chicken in Breadcrumbs, right?

People eat more cooked meat than they ever would raw.

Cooking animal fats make them a thousand times more palatable than raw animal fats. Again, people would easily eat a plate of sausages, would they be so keen to eat a plate of raw sausages?

Cooking animal foods leads to people overeating.

Not that cooked animal foods are the most detrimental cooked foodstuffs, that honour easily goes to cooked grain. A foodstuff (Wheat, Rice etc) which would be inedible to humans if not for the cooking process.

My God, you have the most irritating way of replying to peoples posts. I'm not going to pinpoint everything you said as I'm not arsed.

Firstly, are you saying that B12 is not essential? You said all vitamins could be obtained through a vegan diet (sans supplements). This is false. Do you have any arguments to the contrary?

Secondly, we have evolved to eat meat cooked, we have been doing in for at least 100,000 years. I don't know where this 'cooked food leads to overeating' stuff is coming from.

Thirdly, let me reiterate, meat does not have an opiate effect on the brain. Please direct me to some studies to the contrary.

OutlawPete · 03-12-2010 11:36AM

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

My God, you have the most irritating way of replying to peoples posts.

Says the guy who started his first reply to me with:

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Bollox Pete, Bollox.

Sure that's not irritating at all like.

--Kaiser-- · 03-12-2010 11:37AM

OutlawPete wrote: »

Says the guy who started his first reply to me with:

Sure that's not irritating at all like.

Well, I calls it like I sees it. If someone posts something which is false and/or bull****, I'm going to tell them.

marco_polo · 03-12-2010 11:40AM

OutlawPete wrote: »

I
You do that they cover chicken in Breadcrumbs, right?

But KFC is only addictive because of the Colonels special ingredient, cocaine raisins

Blazer · 03-12-2010 11:42AM

Ah vegetarians..they're all high and mighty till they get their first taste of meat in years and then they go crazy for it...
Sister was vegetarian for about 15 years and always lecturing us...when abroad last year she was given a lamb kebab by mistake or something with meat in it and she had it ate before she realized it..she couldn't understand how it tasted so good when she had loads of this stuff before...then she copped it

Fast forward 6 months and she's piled on the weight...as if she wasn't already heavy enough being a vegetarian she's chomping her way through every kind of meat she's never eaten before

OutlawPete · 03-12-2010 12:12PM

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Well, I calls it like I sees it. If someone posts something which is false and/or bull****, I'm going to tell them.

Eh, I couldn't care less - but just don't call someone irritating after you have called stared your post with a three word sentence and two of them are the word 'bollox'.

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Thirdly, let me reiterate, meat does not have an opiate effect on the brain. Please direct me to some studies to the contrary.

No, let me reiterate, I NEVER said that cooked meat had an opiate effect, I said KFC did.

I used the words "cooked food" NOT "cooked chicken".

Go and read the post properly.

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Firstly, are you saying that B12 is not essential?

No.

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

You said all vitamins could be obtained through a vegan diet (sans supplements). This is false.

If plants are grown in the healthy soil, then humans can absorb B12 from them. Sea vegetables also contain B12.

I recommend the book, The China Study for further reading.

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

I don't know where this 'cooked food leads to overeating' stuff is coming from.

Came from me.

I have been eating roughly an 80% Raw food diet for ten years or so and know many others who also do the same. In the 90's I was on the Atkins diet and I could eat meat all day on that diet and never stop.

Ribs, Burgers, Eggs, Roast Chicken, Sausages, Bacon etc etc.

When I went raw I found I could only tolerate so much raw meat before feeling fulfilled and have read a ton of similar experiences from others who have gone raw.

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Secondly, we have evolved to eat meat cooked, we have been doing in for at least 100,000 years.

I know, that's why I eat it.

Diapason · 03-12-2010 12:30PM

In honour of this thread, I ate 5 different kinds of meat at dinner last night.

It was tasty.

--Kaiser-- · 03-12-2010 12:32PM

OutlawPete wrote: »

I used the words "cooked food" NOT "cooked chicken".

Go and read the post properly.

If plants are grown in the healthy soil, then humans can absorb B12 from them. Sea vegetables also contain B12.

Came from me.

I have been eating roughly an 80% Raw food diet for ten years or so and know many others who also do the same. In the 90's I was on the Atkins diet and I could eat meat all day on that diet and never stop.

Fine, you said, cooked food has an opiate effect. This is bollox simply not true, no matter how many times you repeat it.

You can only get Vit B12 from vegetables if they are grown in faeces (animal or human) and not washed before eating.

thisguy · 03-12-2010 12:39PM

Im going to eat an extra burger tonight, in the hope of offsetting the inbalance created in the food chain by anyone who has turned veggie because of this thread...I do what I can:)

bigneacy · 03-12-2010 12:39PM

mur·der (mûrdr)
n. The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.

--Kaiser-- · 03-12-2010 12:51PM

OutlawPete wrote: »

I recommend the book, The China Study for further reading.

I know of the China Study. I'd recommend you read some criticism of this study, just so you don't get stuck in 'confirmation bias' loop.

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/China-Study.html

http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/

OutlawPete · 03-12-2010 01:16PM

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Fine, you said, cooked food has an opiate effect. This is bollox simply not true, no matter how many times you repeat it.

It is NOT "bollox".

Without cooking - grains such as wheat, oats, rice and corn are indigestible to humans.

When is the last time you seen someone eating raw grains?

A dough covered burger perhaps?? Sausage encased in raw batter?

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

You can only get Vit B12 from vegetables if they are grown in faeces (animal or human) and not washed before eating.

Yes, which is why I referred to the soil.

You do realize that you are are contradicting yourself.

Didn't you just post:

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Vitamin B12 is only available from animal sources, and is utterly essential.

And now it's ..

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

You can only get Vit B12 from vegetables if they are grown in faeces (animal or human) and not washed before eating.

Hmmm.

--Kaiser-- · 03-12-2010 01:23PM

OutlawPete wrote: »

It is NOT "bollox".

Without cooking - grains such as wheat, oats, rice and corn are indigestible to humans.

When is the last time you seen someone eating raw grains?

A dough covered burger perhaps?? Sausage encased in raw batter?

Yes, which is why I referred to the soil.
You do realize that you are are contradicting yourself.
Didn't you just post:

And now it's ..

Hmmm.

Well then it's not cooked food (which would encompass a huge variety of different foods) which has an opiate effect is it? It's the opioid peptides which are contained in gluten. Making your statement, wait for it, incorrect.

I doubt many vegans eat shit or mud, so for all intents and purposes, vegan diets do not provide sufficient Vitamin B12.

dr.bollocko · 03-12-2010 01:23PM

So we're advocating a portion of shit with our vegetables?
Just so we're clear. Does this shit get cooked or just spread it on after they've been boiled up?

liah · 03-12-2010 01:27PM

OutlawPete wrote: »

It is NOT "bollox".

Without cooking - grains such as wheat, oats, rice and corn are indigestible to humans.

When is the last time you seen someone eating raw grains?

A dough covered burger perhaps?? Sausage encased in raw batter?

Did he SAY any of that? No. He said you were talking bollocks when you said cooked food has an opiate effect.

opiate o·pi·ate
[n., adj. oh-pee-it, -eyt; v. oh-pee-eyt]
noun, adjective, verb, -at·ed, -at·ing.
–noun
1.
a drug containing opium or its derivatives, used in medicine for inducing sleep and relieving pain.
2.
any sedative, soporific, or narcotic.
3.
anything that causes dullness or inaction or that soothes the feelings.
–adjective
4.
mixed or prepared with opium.
5.
inducing sleep; soporific; narcotic.
6.
causing dullness or inaction.

Which was bollocks. He's right. You're wrong. You're trying to muscle the discussion into making you right, but you and him are addressing different things if this particular response is anything to go by.

We eat cooked food because it's easier to eat. We don't eat cooked food because it effectively "drugs" us. I certainly don't get an opiate effect after eating food, regardless as to whether it's cooked or not I feel no differerence.

Yes, which is why I referred to the soil.

You do realize that you are are contradicting yourself.

Didn't you just post:

And now it's ..

Hmmm.

Faeces ARE an animal byproduct.. without the faeces the veggies wouldn't have B12.. therefore B12 only comes from animal byproducts.

sponsoredwalk · 03-12-2010 01:27PM

OutlawPete wrote: »

You do realize that you are are contradicting yourself.

Honestly, there's no point having this debate because you're just arguing
with ignorance. I'm sure someone will criticize you for eating raw because
well if god wanted us to eat raw he wouldn't have given us fire.

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

vegan diets do not provide sufficient Vitamin B12.

Tell that to lifelong vegans...

dr.bollocko · 03-12-2010 01:33PM

sponsoredwalk wrote: »

Tell that to lifelong vegans...

Who take supplements.
I mean it's pretty well established. There is a need for B12 in the diet. Which comes from animal sources, fecal or otherwise.

Is Meat Murder?

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