Is Meat Murder?

High energy · 02-12-2010 05:16PM

runawaybishop wrote: »

Not a great argument, babies and infants do not remain dumb forever (speaking again on the whole).

Then should we eat people with down syndrome too ? There's a tasty looking one down the road from me.

runawaybishop · 02-12-2010 05:18PM

High energy wrote: »

Then should we eat people with down syndrome too ? There's a tasty looking one down the road from me.

Might as well get some use out of them. Eugenics has proven pretty popular in many countries.

Capt'n Midnight · 02-12-2010 06:45PM

runawaybishop wrote: »

There clearly is a separation between us and the animal kingdom.

It's called the Liffey.

bronte · 02-12-2010 06:58PM

DrumSteve wrote: »

I'm pretty sure that was a joke... I believe Sarah Palin said it.

Ah yes, the pillar of logic that is Sarah Palin.
She also believes in abstinance.
Hey didn't one of her daughters end up pregnant? :pac:
Point is the "joke" isn't funny and is overused to hell.

ScumLord · 02-12-2010 07:27PM

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

The transportation of meat around the world has huge negative impact on the environment.

And how is fruit and veg transported, by magic carpet? Transport is a non issue because food will be transported regardless. In fact meat in this country travels less if your buying from a butcher and not your local supermarket although many do stock Irish meat.

Trekmad wrote: »

I'm not going to argue that we should'nt eat meat, but I do believe we should hunt for it rather than this streamline processing BS we have, the animal should have a fair chance (effectively what we have now is genocide).

So basically throw away all the advantages of human civilisation, what civilisation is all about is sharing of tasks and allowing some people to specialise in one particular task because they don't have to go out hunting for food. If every individual person had to find their own food, human civilisation, art and science wouldn't exist.

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

You are giving the animal a life for our own selfish needs. The animal doesn't need to exist. That's like saying 'at least we gave the slaves a life in the first place'.

This makes no sense, your basically calling nature itself wrong. Animals have always throughout the history of time developed beneficial relationships. Our food animals are fulfilling all their needs by teaming up with us. They're guaranteed food and their offspring are protected by the most powerful animal that's ever lived.

-Trek- · 02-12-2010 07:39PM

ScumLord wrote: »

So basically throw away all the advantages of human civilisation, what civilisation is all about is sharing of tasks and allowing some people to specialise in one particular task because they don't have to go out hunting for food. If every individual person had to find their own food, human civilisation, art and science wouldn't exist.

Firstly I did have make a bit of retraction on that earlier maybe you missed it.
The point I was trying to put accross is that if people had to still hunt for their food they would have more respect for where its coming from rather than just strolling into the chipper and ordering a quarter pounder and it just magically appears there. I understand that its practically impossible to have hunt for you food I was simply trying to express an opinion that I am not happy with the current system, how I would change that system is beyond my remit though.

High energy · 02-12-2010 07:39PM

ScumLord wrote: »

This makes no sense, your basically calling nature itself wrong. Animals have always throughout the history of time developed beneficial relationships. Our food animals are fulfilling all their needs by teaming up with us. They're guaranteed food and their offspring are protected by the most powerful animal that's ever lived.

MY god, what a load of rubbish!

Do you think forcing species to be dependent on us for survival is natural ? It basically means if anything happens to us, they are gone too.

Never have I seen such a self-denial filled bs post in my life, trying to justify meat consumption because we are "protecting" their species LOL. We have pretty much destroyed any real chance of survival they have if humans are ever wiped out. The same applies to domesticated dogs, cats, etc.

Our food animals are fulfilling all their needs by teaming up with us.

Do their needs include (using chickens as an example) being crammed with another 6 birds into a tiny 12 inch box, having their beaks sliced off to stop from attacking each other, having their feet cut off to stop movement, having their wings broken to stop from getting aggravated, being force fed so badly their organs can't keep up and they die after 6 weeks, then being shocked, boiled alive screaming in pain, and onto your plate?

The only needs we are fulfilling are their needs to be tortured, if they have them.

marco_polo · 02-12-2010 07:39PM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

It's called the Liffey.

Dublin forum

>

* Not being serious btw

High energy · 02-12-2010 07:51PM

At least if you eat meat, admit that it is primarily for self-satisfaction and not some contrived excuse about protecting their species.

Fighting Irish · 02-12-2010 07:55PM

It is but i couldn't care less to be honest

Canis Lupus · 02-12-2010 07:58PM

High energy wrote: »

At least if you eat meat, admit that it is primarily for self-satisfaction and not some contrived excuse about protecting their species.

Like all eating is yeah.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 02-12-2010 07:59PM

It wasn't me! wrote: »

And don't give anything about it not being natural. Humans are predators. I'm driven to hunt. Cold air, fresh breezes and snow underfoot and I want nothing more than to hunt. It's what I think of all day I'm stuck working inside. Now that? That's not a natural thing, so presumably people who'll decry meat as an unnatural pursuit for humans are also posting this while availing of natural internet, on a natural laptop, from a cave.

In fairness, that's usually the argument you hear from the meat eater side.

This and the abortion threads are going to be fighting it out for the "Collective-banging-of-heads-against-walls" awards as long as the internet exists. Though I'm consistently pleased to learn that I and millions of other life long vegetarians around the world seem to be viewed as practically medical miracles.

whatdoicare · 02-12-2010 08:05PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s-k6cEC6ZI

scientific1982 · 02-12-2010 08:24PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3c0THQbdDE

marco_polo · 02-12-2010 08:42PM

High energy wrote: »

MY god, what a load of rubbish!

Do you think forcing species to be dependent on us for survival is natural ? It basically means if anything happens to us, they are gone too.

Never have I seen such a self-denial filled bs post in my life, trying to justify meat consumption because we are "protecting" their species LOL. We have pretty much destroyed any real chance of survival they have if humans are ever wiped out. The same applies to domesticated dogs, cats, etc.

Do their needs include (using chickens as an example) being crammed with another 6 birds into a tiny 12 inch box, having their beaks sliced off to stop from attacking each other, having their feet cut off to stop movement, having their wings broken to stop from getting aggravated, being force fed so badly their organs can't keep up and they die after 6 weeks, then being shocked, boiled alive screaming in pain, and onto your plate?

The only needs we are fulfilling are their needs to be tortured, if they have them.

If cruel intensive farming techniques were the only way to produce meat you might even have a point, however a great many meat eater abhore such practices as well.

And if your objection is the 'unnaturalness' of selective breeding have you ever seen a picture of a wild cabbage or wild maize?

humberklog · 02-12-2010 08:49PM

Hmmmm...murder...mnom nom nom.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 02-12-2010 09:06PM

liah wrote: »

mur·der
[mur-der]
–noun
1.
Law . the killing of another human being under conditions specifically covered in law.

Theoretically if you applied human law to animals, then yes, technically it would be murder. But human law doesn't apply to animals, they can't comprehend human law. When it comes to killing, animals don't know the concept of murder. They just know surviving and not surviving.

They kill each other far more brutally than we kill them in the first world. To be honest, if I were an animal, and I had the choice to die from

a) being mauled to death by a carnivorous predator and having my internal organs ripped out for me to see as I lay dying,
b) dying in the wilderness of disease, old age or starvation and slowly being eaten alive by scavengers, or
c) being shot in the head before I even know what's going on,

I'd definitely go with c.

You got to take a look at how a slaughter house works. Many of the animals seem to be in a lot of distress/pain.

They don't get shot in the head with a bullet that follows through, they are hit with a metal bar that stuns them. The animal is on a line, the operator doesn't spend too much time trying to make sure the animal is not aware of what is going on. I have witnessed this, they want to see numbers.

liah wrote: »

But if they weren't bred that way they would face either option a or option b. No other options are available to them (except, perhaps, being hit by a car).

Tbh if it comes from a well-regulated and humane source it's really not the worst thing in the world you could do to the animal. Releasing them to the wild would be far more dangerous, not even just for the animals themselves but for the damage it would do to the environment.

Don't take me wrong on the next part but what about the option of dying normally? Not all dying animals are eaten alive. Not all animals have their guts spilled out and ripped to peices before dying. Canines and felines, thanks to evolution and thousands of years of perfecting thier skills, kill thier prey a lot faster than you are portraying.

It wasn't me! · 02-12-2010 09:52PM

Carmen Bald Comedian wrote: »

In fairness, that's usually the argument you hear from the meat eater side.

This and the abortion threads are going to be fighting it out for the "Collective-banging-of-heads-against-walls" awards as long as the internet exists. Though I'm consistently pleased to learn that I and millions of other life long vegetarians around the world seem to be viewed as practically medical miracles.

Yes, because it's true. I do have that urge. When I'm shooting at game, I'm running on adrenaline to make the kill clean and tidy and when the kill is made, I'm washed over with strong emotions, gladness at having made the kill cleanly and having acquired food for myself, humility and a tinge of sadness for having killed, and respect for a highly evolved prey animal which may have eluded me many times before I got it. I feel satisfaction at having provided for myself and those around me, but I have the memory of the experience, which is something nobody can share in, the hunt and then that tension in its end, then the wave of feelings. That's what drives me. Man is a predator.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 02-12-2010 09:55PM

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Yes, because it's true. I do have that urge. When I'm shooting at game, I'm running on adrenaline to make the kill clean and tidy and when the kill is made, I'm washed over with strong emotions, gladness at having made the kill cleanly and having acquired food for myself, humility and a tinge of sadness for having killed, and respect for a highly evolved prey animal which may have eluded me many times before I got it. I feel satisfaction at having provided for myself and those around me, but I have the memory of the experience, which is something nobody can share in, the hunt and then that tension in its end, then the wave of feelings. That's what drives me. Man is a predator.

That's nice. I'm off to prey on some hummus

johnnyskeleton · 02-12-2010 10:02PM

biko wrote: »

If everyone had to start to kill their own meat instead of getting it served to them on plates there would be a hell of a lot more vegetarians around.

If vegetarians have to grow their own carrots then I'll gladly slaughter a few cows.

Irish Guitarist · 02-12-2010 10:20PM

If God didn't want us to eat humans why did he make them out of meat?

marco_polo · 02-12-2010 10:29PM

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

If vegetarians have to grow their own carrots then I'll gladly slaughter a few cows.

Only natural wild ones of course

http://www.hiltonpond.org/images/QueenAnnesLaceRoot01.jpg

admiralofthefleet · 02-12-2010 10:29PM

having meat without pepper sauce is murder

ScumLord · 02-12-2010 10:42PM

High energy wrote: »

MY god, what a load of rubbish!

Do you think forcing species to be dependent on us for survival is natural ? It basically means if anything happens to us, they are gone too.

Yes it is natural, it's natural because it happens. We do not exist outside of nature. Every thought and action we carry out we do so on behalf of nature that made us the beast that we are.

Animals make all sorts of relationships throughout nature some succeed for long periods of time, some fade away quickly because they don't work.

We didn't necessarily force any of these animals into the relationships either. It's likely wolves choose us instead of the other way around.

Never have I seen such a self-denial filled bs post in my life, trying to justify meat consumption because we are "protecting" their species LOL. We have pretty much destroyed any real chance of survival they have if humans are ever wiped out. The same applies to domesticated dogs, cats, etc.

Well to a certain extent we should protect these species we made them and now they depend on us but give everything to us in return. We should protect them.

And it's also not at all assured that the domestic animals would die out. Dogs and cats are honed hunters we breed them to be the best the species can offer before we turned them into toys.

The only needs we are fulfilling are their needs to be tortured, if they have them.

The live, they breed, they have a good life under the right conditions it's a hell of a lot better than any wild animal would get. Nature is cruel and unforgiving people seem to forget that.

Chuchoter · 02-12-2010 10:44PM

To be honest I find veganism and to a large extent vegetarianism just kind of silly. They are animals and not smart enough to know they are about to be eaten. Frankly, I just don't care what happens to cows and chickens as long as they are not brutally mistreated like the dogs and horses on the rspca ads. Maybe that makes me a horrible person, but I have more important concerns.

Also ,2000th post! I have too much free time

:P

strobe · 02-12-2010 11:26PM

OutlawPete wrote: »

Heifer whines could be human cries
closer comes the screaming knife
this beautiful creature must die
this beautiful creature must die

A death for no reason
and death for no reason is MURDER
and the flesh you so fancifully fry
is not succulent, tasty or nice
it is death for no reason

And death for no reason is MURDER
and the calf that you carve with a smile
is MURDER
and the turkey you festively slice
is MURDER
do you know how animals die?

Kitchen aromas aren't very homely
it's not "comforting", "cheery" or "kind"
it's sizzling blood and the unholy stench
of MURDER
it's not "natural", "normal" or kind
the flesh you so fancifully fry

The meat in your mouth
as you savour the flavour
of MURDER
NO, NO, NO, IT'S MURDER
NO, NO, NO, IT'S MURDER
who hears when animals cry?

I would have quit eating meat a decade ago if it wasn't for the fact I know it pisses that talentless half retarded warbling whingebag loser off. There is blood on your hands Morrissey you overrated sh1tebag.

Pherekydes · 02-12-2010 11:29PM

If you think killing animals and eating meat is murder then why don't you go off and arrest some predators? Lots of foxes, lions, polar bears etc. out there killing and eating animals.

OutlawPete · 03-12-2010 03:04AM

Pherekydes wrote: »

If you think killing animals and eating meat is murder then why don't you go off and arrest some predators? Lots of foxes, lions, polar bears etc. out there killing and eating animals.

Ah, but they have no other way of getting their nutrition.

Humans can get all vitamins, minerals and amino acids from eating a vegan diet.

In fact, when humans eat animal flesh, it must be broken down in the body to amino acids first before the body can utilize them.

Add to that the fact that humans cook that animal flesh and denature the protein even further, and you can easily see how vegetable proteins would be far easier on the human digestion system.

Cooked food has opiate effects on humans and we are all addicted to them, we crave them FAR more than we do the amino acids and vitamins that we garner from the cooked animal flesh.

An example would be that when you are "starving" and you go to KFC, you most likely could eat two whole chickens.

However, would you eat two raw chickens?

Would they 'hit the spot' - in the same way that the roasted chicken did?

No, and that's because 'hitting the spot' has little to do with amino acids / protein.

It's all about addiction.

/Eats chicken balls and fried rice

Mrmoe · 03-12-2010 03:50AM

Meat is not murder. I generally don't get along well with people who do not consume meat.

High energy · 03-12-2010 05:51AM

Mrmoe wrote: »

Meat is not murder. I generally don't get along well with people who do not consume meat.

Wow, you're so insightful ! Such a well thought out logical argument. Oh and you don't get on with vegetarians - stop the presses !! Mrmoe doesn't get on with vegetarians!! WOOOOWWWW!!!!

So yea.. nobody gives a sh1t who you do or don't get on with.

Is Meat Murder?

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