Is Meat Murder?

meglome · 02-12-2010 03:28PM

tasty tasty murder

Duggy747 · 02-12-2010 03:33PM

I always hear of why we shouldn't kill animals for human gain, especially in meat, but I rarely hear complaints about the by-products we get from them.

Like cows:

Blatently Stolen From The Web wrote:

Dairy:
- Cheese
- Milk (whole, partially skimmed, skimmed)
- Yogurt
- Ice Cream
- Buttermilk
- Butter
- Evaporated or Condensed Milk
- Chocolate milk
- Cream (coffee cream, half-and-half, whipped, whipping)

Inedible Byproducts:
- Animal feeds
- Bone meal
- Bone products
- Cosmetics
- Fertilizer
- Glue
- Glycerin
- Hides and Skins
- Lanolin
- Ligatures
- Lubricants
- Neat's Foot Oil
- Pluck (lungs, etc.)
- Soap

Chemical Substances Obtained as Byproducts:
- ACTH
- Cholestrol
- Estrogen
- Epinephrine
- Heparin
- Insulin
- Rennet
- Thrombin
- TSH and thyroid extracts

Adrenal (suprarenals):
- Epinephrine (asthma, hay fever, allergies, shock)
- Adrenal Cortex Extract (Addison's disease, postsurgical, burn shock)

Brain:
- Kephalin (oozing surfaces to check bleeding)

Gallbladder:
- Bile Salts
- Dehydrochloric acid (gallbladder disturbances, abnormalities of fat digestion)
- Cortisone (rheumatic fever, arthritis, various allergies, inflammatory eye diseases, etc.)

Intestines:
- Surgical sutures

Liver:
- Liver Extract (pernicious anemia)
- Heparin (delay clotting of shed blood of ulcers, postsurgical)

Pancreas:
- Insulin (diabetes control)
- Trypsin ( protein-digesting enzyme, soften scar tissue, digest neurotic tissue in wounds and ulcers)
- Amalase (starch-splitting enzyme)
- Lipase (fat-splitting enzyme)

Parathyroid:
- Parathyroid extract (tetany)

Pituitary:
- Posterior pituitary extract (increase blood pressure during shock, promote uterine contraction during and after childbirth, control excessive urination of diabetes insipidus)
- ACTH ( rheumatic fever, arthritis, acute inflammation of eyes and skin, acute acoholism, severe asthma, hay fever, other allergy symptoms)

Red Bone Marrow:
- Bone Marrow Concentrates (treatment of various blood disorders)

Stomach:
- Renin (aid milk digestion)

Testes:
- Enzyme hyaluronidase

Thyroid:
- Thyroid extract (malfunctions of thyroid gland (goiters, cretinism, myxedema))

Blood:
- Thrombin (applied locally to wounds to stop bleeding)

Bones and Hides:
- Gelatin (plasma extender)

Byproducts from cattle:
- Shoes
- Wallets
- Purses
- Belts & Belting
- Jackets/Coats
- Harnesses
- Saddles
- Razor Strops
- Traveling Bags
- Footballs
- Baseballs
- Baseball Mitts
- "Sheepskins" for diplomas
- Sweat Bands for Hats
- Gloves
- Cowboy Boots
- Other leather goods

Fats
- Manufacture of Oleomargerine
- Soaps
- Animal Feeds
- Industrial Oils
- Lubricants
- Leather Dressing
- Candles
- Fertilizer
- Cosmetics (lipstick, facecream, hand cream)

Horns and Hooves
- Napkin rings
- Goblets
- Tobacco Boxes
- Knife and Umbrella Handles
- Combs
- Buttons
- Other products

Blood
- Refining of sugar
- Blood Sausage
- Stock Feeds
- Making Buttons
- Making Shoe Polish
- Other things

Meat Scraps and Muscle Tissue
- Meat-meal or Tankage

Bones and Cartilage
- Bone China
- Stock Feed
- Fertilizer
- Glue
- Crochet Needles
- Dice
- Knife handles
- Buttons
- Teething rings
- Toothbrush Handles
- Other Articles

Intestines and Bladders
- Sausage
- Lard
- Cheese
- Snuff
- Putty Containers
- Surgical sutures
- Strings for various musical instruments
- Strings for Tennis rackets

Glands
- Pharmaceutical preparations

Collagen
- Glue (woodworking industry)
- Gelatin (baking, ice cream making, capsules for medicine, coating for pills, photography, culture for bacteria media, etc.)

Contents of the stomach
- Fertilizer
- Feed

sponsoredwalk · 02-12-2010 03:36PM

No vegetarian/vegan etc... is going to come on here arguing the point with
you's. If they did other ones would scold the hell out of them for being so
stupid, everyone has a personal choice & that's fine, we respect that but
all the ridiculous insults some people in here like to throw around are
extremely stupid/childish/ignorant/hateful & it's those people that make me
want to lash out with a big rhetorical argument.

If you hate those "lefty types" trying to convince you with obvious
propaganda then it'd be nice to be @ least a little bit consistent & not
go off insulting them while you double-standardly chastise them for
propagandizing by having an opinion & discussing it publicly.

Every argument on this thread is answered on various websites if you
want to go & research these points, but that requires facing an
opposing viewpoint & motivating people to do that is hard when they
can just safely stay in their comfort zone & insult those who are
different.

If anyone actually wants to argue this topic then unless they do their
own actual research into the beaten-to-death discussions & bring
informed arguments to the vegetarian/vegan forum I think this thread
is simply a waste of time or a pat-each-other-on-the-back one that
thrives in ignorance of arguments all the while insulting the lefty-marxist-
college-liberal-greeny-veggies who are obviously just fools...
This isn't some religious topic where discussion is prohibited but
uninformed rant-justifications are just tiresome & were anyone to
respond to them they'd just be berated for brainwashing other people.
Since that is the standard set by everyone I think it's only fair not to
continually insult those people who do not barrage you with facts &
figures trying to get you to stop doing something you've freely chosen
to do.

Note: Not meant @ everyone in this thread :pac:

Riamfada · 02-12-2010 04:02PM

sponsoredwalk wrote: »

No vegetarian/vegan etc... is going to come on here arguing the point with
you's. If they did other ones would scold the hell out of them for being so
stupid, everyone has a personal choice & that's fine, we respect that but
all the ridiculous insults some people in here like to throw around are
extremely stupid/childish/ignorant/hateful & it's those people that make me
want to lash out with a big rhetorical argument.

If you hate those "lefty types" trying to convince you with obvious
propaganda then it'd be nice to be @ least a little bit consistent & not
go off insulting them while you double-standardly chastise them for
propagandizing by having an opinion & discussing it publicly.

Every argument on this thread is answered on various websites if you
want to go & research these points, but that requires facing an
opposing viewpoint & motivating people to do that is hard when they
can just safely stay in their comfort zone & insult those who are
different.

If anyone actually wants to argue this topic then unless they do their
own actual research into the beaten-to-death discussions & bring
informed arguments to the vegetarian/vegan forum I think this thread
is simply a waste of time or a pat-each-other-on-the-back one that
thrives in ignorance of arguments all the while insulting the lefty-marxist-
college-liberal-greeny-veggies who are obviously just fools...
This isn't some religious topic where discussion is prohibited but
uninformed rant-justifications are just tiresome & were anyone to
respond to them they'd just be berated for brainwashing other people.
Since that is the standard set by everyone I think it's only fair not to
continually insult those people who do not barrage you with facts &
figures trying to get you to stop doing something you've freely chosen
to do.

Note: Not meant @ everyone in this thread :pac:

There is only one argument. Im hungry and wheres the beef.

Napper Hawkins · 02-12-2010 04:13PM

Amen, meat tastes all the better knowing there's a bunch of saps crying about it somewhere.

ilovelamp2000 · 02-12-2010 04:20PM

biko wrote: »

If everyone had to start to kill their own meat instead of getting it served to them on plates there would be a hell of a lot more vegetarians around.

Once upon a time people did that.

And still ate meat.

OutlawPete · 02-12-2010 04:26PM

ilovelamp2000 wrote: »

Once upon a time people did that.

And still ate meat.

Many still do.

Capt'n Midnight · 02-12-2010 04:30PM

Duggy747 wrote: »

I always hear of why we shouldn't kill animals for human gain, especially in meat, but I rarely hear complaints about the by-products we get from them.

Like cows:

Excluding the primary products how many of these are actually used today in preference to the non-bovine alternatives ?

bronte · 02-12-2010 04:37PM

Ah, the monthly "not eating meat is stupid" thread.

High energy · 02-12-2010 04:39PM

YAWN! Boring thread. I've been on boards hardly a month and this is the 2nd major thread on this subject.

I'm a vegan yes but good christ almighty arguing about is the most pointless and futile exercise known to man - meat-eaters won't convince us to revert, we won't convince meat-eaters to stop, so what's the point?

Everyone is free to make their own decisions, but I think it's universally agreed by all meat-eaters, vegetarians, vegans, etc that factory farmed and industrial animals should be treated better, and cruelty reduced as much as possible. It's a shame the industry is moving in the other direction though.

politicsdude · 02-12-2010 04:39PM

DrumSteve wrote: »

Personally I believe it is but to be honest I will still eat burgers, steaks or whatever. The animals are mostly looked after correctly before slaughter so I guess I don't feel so bad about it.

Plus they are tasty.

murder tastes dam good

DrumSteve · 02-12-2010 04:40PM

bronte wrote: »

Ah, the monthly "not eating meat is stupid" thread.

Actually the thread is about whether Meat is Murder... Not the ingestion of it.

bronte · 02-12-2010 04:42PM

DrumSteve wrote: »

Actually the thread is about whether Meat is Murder... Not the ingestion of it.

Yes, but you may have noticed a lot of people have mentioned eating it.
Take this gem for example:

SV wrote: »

If God didn't want us to eat animals, he wouldn't have made them out of food.

--Kaiser-- · 02-12-2010 04:42PM

High energy wrote: »

but I think it's universally agreed by all meat-eaters, vegetarians, vegans, etc that factory farmed and industrial animals should be treated better, and cruelty reduced as much as possible. It's a shame the industry is moving in the other direction though.

Agreed. But that's capitalism for you. People want cheap food and cheap meat usually involves industrial farming

High energy · 02-12-2010 04:45PM

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Agreed. But that's capitalism for you. People want cheap food and cheap meat usually involves industrial farming

True, and it's the type of industry where the companies don't want people knowing how the animals are treated, and most consumers don't want to know either for fear of guilt.

Wolfe Tone · 02-12-2010 04:47PM

Cant we all just eat snow?

scientific1982 · 02-12-2010 04:49PM

It is murder and there isnt some special seperation between us and the rest of the animal kingdom. However, we arent designed to be vegetarian or vegan. We're omnivores. As long as the animal is treated well and is killed in as painless a manner as possible, I dont see the big issue. Most people should probably scale back on their meat consumption though.

dlm · 02-12-2010 04:52PM

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

No, there'd be a lot less vegetarians around, because they're weaker and therefore easier targets for us carnivores.

All ya gotta do is prise a weaker one away from the herd.

You would probably want to check into that one a little further.

runawaybishop · 02-12-2010 04:55PM

scientific1982 wrote: »

It is murder and there isnt some special seperation between us and the rest of the animal kingdom.

I have to disagree with this. It is not murder, you can only murder a human. There clearly is a separation between us and the animal kingdom.

DrumSteve · 02-12-2010 04:55PM

bronte wrote: »

Yes, but you may have noticed a lot of people have mentioned eating it.
Take this gem for example:

I'm pretty sure that was a joke... I believe Sarah Palin said it.

Farmtrader · 02-12-2010 04:58PM

biko wrote: »

If everyone had to start to kill their own meat instead of getting it served to them on plates there would be a hell of a lot more vegetarians around.

All the more meat for me ...

High energy · 02-12-2010 05:02PM

runawaybishop wrote: »

There clearly is a separation between us and the animal kingdom.

It's this type of backwards thinking that I believe religious teachings are responsible for over the last few thousand years. There really is actually very little , physically and mentally , separating us from animals.

Physically they have eyes, ears, mouths, noses, stomachs, lungs, hearts, arms, legs.
Mentally they have much the same instincts and desires for food, shelter, warmth, reproduction, as us.

It's even been proven chimpanzees and some other species of monkey can do basic maths and problem solving. Example:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/12/071203094823.htm
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2007/12/are-you-smarter/

scientific1982 · 02-12-2010 05:05PM

runawaybishop wrote: »

I have to disagree with this. It is not murder, you can only murder a human. There clearly is a separation between us and the animal kingdom.

Oh really, whats the seperation.

--Kaiser-- · 02-12-2010 05:06PM

High energy wrote: »

It's this type of backwards thinking that I believe religious teachings are responsible for over the last few thousand years. There really is actually very little , physically and mentally , separating us from animals.

Physically they have eyes, ears, mouths, noses, stomachs, lungs, arms, legs.
Mentally they have much the same instincts and desires for food, shelter, warmth, reproduction, as us.

It's even been proven chimpanzees and some other species of monkey can do basic maths and problem solving. Example:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/12/071203094823.htm

Well, we don't eat monkeys (OK, most people don't eat monkeys).

If you are against the killing of animals, would you swat a fly? Would you dose your hypothetical dog for fleas? At what level of sentience does it become not OK to kill an animal?

runawaybishop · 02-12-2010 05:06PM

High energy wrote: »

It's this type of backwards thinking that I believe religious teachings are responsible for over the last few thousand years. There really is actually very little , physically and mentally , separating us from animals.

Physically they have eyes, ears, mouths, noses, stomachs, lungs, arms, legs.
Mentally they have much the same instincts and desires for food, shelter, warmth, reproduction, as us.

It's even been proven chimpanzees and some other species of monkey can do basic maths and problem solving. Example:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/12/071203094823.htm
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2007/12/are-you-smarter/

What is backwards about saying that animals are not our equals? Are you saying i cant eat something because it looks like me, or that appearance equates to similarity? Murder is when you kill a human, you cannot murder an animal.

scientific1982 wrote: »

Oh really, whats the seperation.

Animals are, on the whole, dumb.

Capt'n Midnight · 02-12-2010 05:10PM

Long Pig probably is murder (cook well otherwise you could catch something similar to CJD )

High energy · 02-12-2010 05:11PM

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Well, we don't eat monkeys (OK, most people don't eat monkeys).

If you are against the killing of animals, would you swat a fly? Would you dose your hypothetical dog for fleas? At what level of sentience does it become not OK to kill an animal?

I wasn't arguing it's ok to kill some animals and others not, just that believing there is some huge difference between animals and us, whether physically or psychologically - is wrong. No logically thinking scientific person would argue against that. The religious nuts will obviously argue about "souls" and other such nonsense.

Gummy Panda · 02-12-2010 05:11PM

Bloody hippies!

scientific1982 · 02-12-2010 05:12PM

Animals are, on the whole, dumb.

So what. Babies and infants are also dumb. We dont consider them fair game for eating just because they're less intelligent.

runawaybishop · 02-12-2010 05:15PM

scientific1982 wrote: »

So what. Babies and infants are also dumb. We dont consider them fair game for eating just because they're less intelligent.

Not a great argument, babies and infants do not remain dumb forever (speaking again on the whole).

Is Meat Murder?

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