Life without headshops.

Pace2008 · 30-11-2010 12:49PM

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

An eminent Doctor in an emergency ward,Dr Chris Luke has warned of the dangers of headshops and has been on radio and tv numerous times outlining his experiences with headshop users.

If you can tell me you have more experience and qualifications than Dr. Luke, then I can evaluate your stance.

I can count to two, if that means anything.

I can also identify when someone doesn't know much about a particular issue and will simply Google a few choice terms to reinforce their prejudices:

Step 1: Google "Drugs are bad."
Step 2: Link to site concernedchristianparentsagainstdrugs.com
Step 3:????
Step 4: PROFIT!!!!

thebigbiffo · 30-11-2010 12:52PM

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

An eminent Doctor in an emergency ward,Dr Chris Luke has warned of the dangers of headshops and has been on radio and tv numerous times outlining his experiences with headshop users.

If you can tell me you have more experience and qualifications than Dr. Luke, then I can evaluate your stance.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2009/nov/02/david-nutt-dangerous-drug-list

hows this guy for ya? experienced enough? qualified enough?

FlutterinBantam · 30-11-2010 12:53PM

Pace2008 wrote: »

I can count to two, if that means anything.

No it doesn't.

Can you answer my question?

thebigbiffo · 30-11-2010 12:56PM

thebigbiffo wrote: »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2009/nov/02/david-nutt-dangerous-drug-list

hows this guy for ya? experienced enough? qualified enough?

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

No it doesn't.

Can you answer my question?

admit you're wrong?

yeah, right...

jkell061 · 30-11-2010 12:57PM

Lando Griffin wrote: »

Do you thing Ireland is a better place without headshops.

Yes, most certainly better off without them. Is it any wonder that Ireland, along with something like two or three other nations were the only places the stuff was legal in the world, and that's because it was absolute junk!! I thought it was grand after trying the stuff the first time, few years back, but after another couple times, never again! IN THE HORRORS!

Stick to the organic shrooms!

FlutterinBantam · 30-11-2010 12:57PM

thebigbiffo wrote: »

head shop drugs may kill...as may changing a lightbulb, going for a drive or over-exercising.

http://www.drugsandalcohol.ie/12130/

a quarter of all poisoning deaths are related to alcohol, and you and joe duffy dont get bent out of shape about that because if your fluffy, cocooned world we dont like talking about your socially accepted drug being a big killer.

can you stay on the topic by any chance. it's Headshops.

Last I heard they didn't sell alcohol in Headshops, or did they?

Elevator · 30-11-2010 12:57PM

watch this thread grow legs ladies and gentlemen!!

look at her go \o/

FlutterinBantam · 30-11-2010 01:00PM

Pace2008 wrote: »

I can count to two, if that means anything.

I can also identify when someone doesn't know much about a particular issue and will simply Google a few choice terms to reinforce their prejudices:

Step 1: Google "Drugs are bad."
Step 2: Link to site concernedchristianparentsagainstdrugs.com
Step 3:????
Step 4: PROFIT!!!!

I can also pick out someone who is afraid to answer a direct question

Pace2008 · 30-11-2010 01:01PM

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

No it doesn't.

Can you answer my question?

I'm an accountant, and neither a qualified doctor nor a pharmacolgist. There is no unanimous consensus on the issue amongst experts in the field, so you’ll forgive me if I won’t base my opinions solely on the word of one doctor who is concerned the relatively low number of cases of patients presenting symptoms caused by head shop drugs.

I could take a leaf out of your book and start spamming links to experts In the area who believe the current prohibition laws are causing more harm than good to society’s overall wellbeing. We could pitch our champions against each other like Jedi knights and see who emerges the victor.

A bit like Top Trumps.

Nodin · 30-11-2010 01:01PM

Elevator wrote: »

watch this thread grow legs ladies and gentlemen!!

look at her go \o/

Flutter played the 'appeal to authority' card early on and was thrashed decisively.....will he limp on regardless...is his nervous system advanced enough to know he's dead on his feet....?

thebigbiffo · 30-11-2010 01:02PM

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

can you stay on the topic by any chance. it's Headshops.

Last I heard they didn't sell alcohol in Headshops, or did they?

are you missing the point or just have ADHD (if you do, i suggest you self medicate with some diazepam)?

Shulgin · 30-11-2010 01:02PM

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Last I heard they didn't sell alcohol in Headshops, or did they?

It's a powerful, dangerous, psychoactive drug available everywhere, It has many parallels with illegal drugs, in fact it is more dangerous than most. but you knew that already right?

But don't mention the alcohol in a headshop thread. we can't have that eh?

Pace2008 · 30-11-2010 01:03PM

Oh, and for the record I believe mephedrone is a dangerous drug. But then I’ve long ago realised that the world exists not in black and white, but in glorious technicolour.

Nodin · 30-11-2010 01:03PM

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

I can also pick out someone who is afraid to answer a direct question

Do you accept that a drugs advisory commitees list of harmful substances rather overides the opinion of an A&E Doctor?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2009/nov/02/david-nutt-dangerous-drug-list

Feelgood · 30-11-2010 01:03PM

Hate to break up the debate, but with all this talk of headshops...

Anyone else craving a blow job?

Pace2008 · 30-11-2010 01:04PM

thebigbiffo wrote: »

are you missing the point or just have ADHD (if you do, i suggest you self medicate with some diazepam)?

Adderall

Pookah · 30-11-2010 01:06PM

Nodin wrote: »

Do you accept that a drugs advisory commitees list of harmful substances rather overides the opinion of an A&E Doctor?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2009/nov/02/david-nutt-dangerous-drug-list

To be fair, that list was compiled using data from 2007, pre the headshop explosion in mephedrone, bzp etc. and they don't appear anywhere on the list.

As much as I don't like Flutt's stance, that link shouldn't really come in to the argument.

Duggy747 · 30-11-2010 01:07PM

Everything is bad for you, mmmkay?

Moderation, people. That's the key word.

Wompa1 · 30-11-2010 01:09PM

Wasn't there a spate of people on here talking about people having seizures and the like when the second round of "legal highs" came out a few months back?

Don't know how people could say they are not dangerous....there's alot of arguments saying alcohol is more dangerous which is fine but then does that not bring more attention for the need to do something about booze rather than do something about legalizing these again?

If people are going for illegal highs now maybe that means more focus should be put into support groups for people that want to kick the habbit...just a thought...

Pace2008 · 30-11-2010 01:10PM

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

I can also pick out someone who is afraid to answer a direct question

Answered, honestly, above.

If David McWilliams comes on the radio saying what the country needs to do to ameliorate our fiscal situation, would you drop what you're doing and follow his instructions because he knows more than you about economics n' stuff?

FlutterinBantam · 30-11-2010 01:12PM

Pace2008 wrote: »

I'm an accountant, and neither a qualified doctor nor a pharmacolgist. There is no unanimous consensus on the issue amongst experts in the field, so you’ll forgive me if I won’t base my opinions solely on the word of one doctor who is concerned the relatively low number of cases of patients presenting symptoms caused by head shop drugs.

I could take a leaf out of your book and start spamming links to experts In the area who believe the current prohibition laws are causing more harm than good to society’s overall wellbeing. We could pitch our champions against each other like Jedi knights and see who emerges the victor.

A bit like Top Trumps.

Thank you.

I will take your advice if I need my firm's accounts done.

I will take Dr. Luke's advice on medical and pharmaceutical matters.

No hard feelings there.

Pace2008 · 30-11-2010 01:14PM

Wompa1 wrote: »

Wasn't there a spate of people on here talking about people having seizures and the like when the second round of "legal highs" came out a few months back?

Don't know how people could say they are not dangerous....there's alot of arguments saying alcohol is more dangerous which is fine but then does that not bring more attention for the need to do something about booze rather than do something about legalizing these again?

If people are going for illegal highs now maybe that means more focus should be put into support groups for people that want to kick the habbit...just a thought...

After mephedrone was banned, the head shops started stocking naphyrone which is what caused this spate of seizures.

Chemists on one of the drug forums I frequent were warning about this compund before it hit the market, stating that the nature of this chemical's structure suggested it was potentially very dangerous and absolutely unfit for man or beast.

I lost any sympathy for head shops vendors when they opted to supply this drug to the public.

Pace2008 · 30-11-2010 01:19PM

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Thank you.

I will take your advice if I need my firm's accounts done.

I will take Dr. Luke's advice on medical and pharmaceutical matters.

Sure I know your mind's been made up from the start, and come Wednesday you'll believe the same you did on Monday, never mind what happens on the day between the two.

I’ll continue to draw my opinions from a wide range of experts in the field, who may have a better knowledge of the overall implications drugs and current drug legislation on society than EURAD, the DEA, and this one dude you like.

No hard feelings there.

I have good weed and MDMA on tap; I’m happy out, man,

Duggy747 · 30-11-2010 01:20PM

I remember one time I saw these college fellas (presumabley new to the whole drugs thing) and they bought "cocaine" from a head shop. The "cocaine" packets were labelled as bath salts, the powder was pink and they hoovered it up.

I asked them why they were snorting such chemical shìt and they said "because it's like cocaine but safer"

Their ignorance was astonishing.

The head shop "weed" was horrible stuff, you knew there was rotten crap in it as you smoked it...........blllllllaaaaaaaaarrrrrgh!! I and most people I know stayed away from that shìt

the_syco · 30-11-2010 01:23PM

Lando Griffin wrote: »

In a recent survay in my village the results were as follows.

35% of youths took no drugs
37% dont take the drugs that were sold in head shops.
28% have immigrated.
So there you have it 65% of our youth are better off without Headshops.

I read it as:
35% do no drugs
37% support organised crime
28% have gone elsewhere

=-=

TBH, the sh|t on the streets have been there for a while. Everyone knows coke can be mixed with sh|t to sell it off at a higher price, but people know the risks. The sh|te in the shops... was often pulled once long-term affects became known.

The difference: people falsly thought that the stuff in the shop, as you could buy it in a shop, was somehow safe. It often turned out that the stuff you get in the shop either a) had no effect on you or b) had an effect on you, and was banned not so long afterards.

FlutterinBantam · 30-11-2010 01:25PM

Pace2008 wrote: »

Sure I know your mind's been made up from the start, and come Wednesday you'll believe the same you did on Monday, never mind what happens on the day between the two.

I’ll continue to draw my opinions from a wide range of experts in the field, who may have a better knowledge of the overall implications drugs and current drug legislation on society than EURAD, the DEA, and this one dude you like.

I have good weed and MDMA on tap; I’m happy out, man,

Good man, so as well as an accountant you are a mind reader too... good combination.

Glad to see you are well supplied, and don't overdo the dosage.

Pace2008 · 30-11-2010 01:41PM

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Good man, so as well as an accountant you are a mind reader too... good combination.

I'm not one for believing in clairvoyance and the like. When someone links to DEA rhetoric* and articles about heroin deaths it’s not wholly unreasonable to infer that their position is set in stone, and they’re selectively looking for literature, pertinent or not, to reinforce this.

*I’m aware that you didn’t do that in this particular thread, but if we’re supposed to accept arguments from authority as valid instruments of debate, I assume fallacious lines of reasoning are fair game, so I’ve gone and poisoned the well.

PS. If I recall correctly, you corrected me on my misuse of the term “perpendicular” a while back. I think you’re talking cobblers here, but I’ll always issue thanks where it’s due.

karma_ · 30-11-2010 01:55PM

Pace2008 wrote: »

I'm not one for believing in clairvoyance and the like. When someone links to DEA rhetoric* and articles about heroin deaths it’s not wholly unreasonable to infer that their position is set in stone, and they’re selectively looking for literature, pertinent or not, to reinforce this.

*I’m aware that you didn’t do that in this particular thread, but if we’re supposed to accept arguments from authority as valid instruments of debate, I assume fallacious lines of reasoning are fair game, so I’ve gone and poisoned the well.

PS. If I recall correctly, you corrected me on my misuse of the term “perpendicular” a while back. I think you’re talking cobblers here, but I’ll always issue thanks where it’s due.

Don't think it, know he is, and always does.

thebigbiffo · 30-11-2010 01:56PM

i'll just sum up these 6 pages if i may:

head shops supplied unregulated and possibly dangerous drugs, the government decided to ban those drugs and the headshops. all recreational drugs are now illegal and unregulated and people still take drugs thus playing into the hands of organised crime; increasing their profits and therefore increasing the likelihood of other associated crime like murder and assault.

i dont know about anyone else, but everytime there's a drugs thread it all comes back to that - and 'that' is that the whole, entire thing is all wrong. everything.

Pace2008 · 30-11-2010 02:24PM

Duggy747 wrote: »

I remember one time I saw these college fellas (presumabley new to the whole drugs thing) and they bought "cocaine" from a head shop. The "cocaine" packets were labelled as bath salts, the powder was pink and they hoovered it up.

I asked them why they were snorting such chemical shìt and they said "because it's like cocaine but safer"

Their ignorance was astonishing.

One of my major gripes with the head shops was the fact they didn't provide details of the active chemical in their wares, let alone information on dosage.

This was frankly dangerous when the measure of active chemical could vary from batch to batch, with the psychoactive compound even being switched for another at times. Apparently, there were a number of adverse reactions from a particular batch of Ivory Wave, sold in grams or half grams, which contained practically uncut MDPV, a substance active at 5mg.

One thing conspicuously absent from newspaper articles around the time of head shop hysteria, though, was that one of the staple bread earners of dealers, cocaine, dropped in price from €100 to an all-time low of €50 as the head shops rose in prominence.

Whilst I'm not even sure if a switch from cocaine to the relatively unresearched mephedrone (euphemistically described by some users as "moreish") was a good thing, you can safely draw 2 conclusions from this price-drop:

a) Head shop drugs were not entirely, or even mostly, being consumed by a hitherto abstinent market, and
b) as has been stated ad nauseum, the dealers were really being hit where it hurts.

Life without headshops.

Comments