Swiss sending home non swiss for certain crimes

29-11-2010 01:14AM

I thought that if you were from a non-EU country and you commit a serious crime here you will not have your GNIB card renewed. Its a condition of a non-Eu citizens right to live here that they obey the laws of the state.

Capt'n Midnight · 29-11-2010 01:14AM

twowheelsonly wrote: »

At any given time we currently have between 400 and 600 foreign nationals in our Prisons (and sometimes more) - that's a huge proportion from roughly 4,000 prisoners.

Any links to back this up , and show it's higher than the % of foreigners in the general population.

Senna · 29-11-2010 01:26AM

*Ideally* we should adopt and widen this proposal, anyone national or non-national should be kicked out of the country if they commit a serious crime. You break the law (murder, rape, armed theft etc), you forfeit your residency.

Piste · 29-11-2010 01:49AM

According to the CSO, in 2006 there were 419,733 non-Irish living in Ireland, representing 10% of the population[1].

According to the 2009 Annual Prison Services Report, Irish nationals accounted for 89.2% of the total number of persons in custody under sentence on the 4th December 2009[2]. So 10.8% of prisoners are non Irish, which roughly corresponds to the number of non-Irish living here.

[edit: the pre-edited version of this post said .1%, I copied and pasted wrong from the CSO website so that figure was totally wrong]

[1]http://cso.ie/statistics/nationalityagegroup.htm
[2]http://www.irishprisons.ie/documents/AnnualReport2009PDF.pdf

Mr Benevolent · 29-11-2010 02:04AM

It's different in Switzerland. The people voted to expel non-national criminals. As a people, we will never, ever vote for anything like that. Why? because we aren't involved in the decision making process.

Unless you count voting the most popular person into the Dail 'decision making', that is.

OPENROAD · 29-11-2010 02:08AM

Confab wrote: »

It's different in Switzerland. The people voted to expel non-national criminals. As a people, we will never, ever vote for anything like that. Why? because we aren't involved in the decision making process.

Unless you count voting the most popular person into the Dail 'decision making', that is.

Doesn't our vote count on constitutional matters?

What was the Lisbon vote all about?

BraziliaNZ · 29-11-2010 02:10AM

I know you all love Roma on boards but nearly every morning they're outside the bridewell coming out of a night in the cells (I work beside it), and all they seem to do is beg. Send them home? Yes please! They do nothing for society!

Rodin · 29-11-2010 02:15AM

Piste wrote: »

According to the CSO, in 2006 there were 419,733 non-Irish living in Ireland, representing 0.1% of the population[1].

According to the 2009 Annual Prison Services Report, Irish nationals accounted for 89.2% of the total number of persons in custody under sentence on the 4th December 2009[2]. So 10.8% of prisoners are non Irish, despite that fact that only 1% of the population is non-Irish.

[1]http://cso.ie/statistics/nationalityagegroup.htm
[2]http://www.irishprisons.ie/documents/AnnualReport2009PDF.pdf

That figure is closer to 10 %.
0.1 % of the population would give us a population of nearly 1/2 million

Capt'n Midnight · 29-11-2010 02:17AM

Piste wrote: »

According to the CSO, in 2006 there were 419,733 non-Irish living in Ireland, representing 0.1% of the population[1].

According to the 2009 Annual Prison Services Report, Irish nationals accounted for 89.2% of the total number of persons in custody under sentence on the 4th December 2009[2]. So 10.8% of prisoners are non Irish, despite that fact that only 1% of the population is non-Irish.

[1]http://cso.ie/statistics/nationalityagegroup.htm
[2]http://www.irishprisons.ie/documents/AnnualReport2009PDF.pdf

You might want to check our population again

Total non-Irish 419,733
Total 4,172,013
so non-Irish are 10.06% which is close enought to 10.8%

However in the 25-44 years age group it's 219,281 out of a total of 1,320,551 which is 16.6% ( I'm guessing a lot of prisoners would be in this age group)

BraziliaNZ · 29-11-2010 02:17AM

Rodin wrote: »

That figure is closer to 10 %.
0.1 % of the population would give us a population of nearly 1/2 million

Your numbers are screwed up too lol

Rodin · 29-11-2010 02:20AM

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

Your numbers are screwed up too lol

I should have said billion!

Well, an american billion

Piste · 29-11-2010 02:20AM

Jaysus didn't spot that at all, corrected it there. You're a sharp one you are

Victor · 29-11-2010 02:21AM

Piste wrote: »

According to the CSO, in 2006 there were 419,733 non-Irish living in Ireland, representing 0.1% of the population[1].

According to the 2009 Annual Prison Services Report, Irish nationals accounted for 89.2% of the total number of persons in custody under sentence on the 4th December 2009[2]. So 10.8% of prisoners are non Irish, despite that fact that only 1% of the population is non-Irish.

[1]http://cso.ie/statistics/nationalityagegroup.htm
[2]http://www.irishprisons.ie/documents/AnnualReport2009PDF.pdf

419,733 / 4,172,013 = 10.06%

100%-89.2% = 10.8%

Materially irrelevant.

Piste · 29-11-2010 02:22AM

Didn't read the corrected post, no?

smk89 · 29-11-2010 02:28AM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Any links to back this up , and show it's higher than the % of foreigners in the general population.

The SVP says immigrants to Switzerland are disproportionately responsible for crime. It points to the fact that more than 60% of prison inmates do not have Swiss nationality.

Source: BBC

If its the case in Switzerland, its probably the same here.

Piste · 29-11-2010 02:48AM

We've just shown that it's not the same here, not at all (even though my dodgy maths made it look to be the oppiste earlier, but I've fixed my post).

Mrmoe · 29-11-2010 03:01AM

Piste wrote: »

We've just shown that it's not the same here, not at all (even though my dodgy maths made it look to be the oppiste earlier, but I've fixed my post).

If you look at the year range 2001-2006 your initial post was correct

Nationality 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006
Irish 82% 77% 73% 79% 74% 70%
EU 3% 3% 3% 2% 3% 10%
Other European 6% 10% 13% 9% 12% 6%
Asian 1% 2% 2% 2% 2% 5%
African 4% 4% 5% 4% 5% 6%
North American <1% <1% <1% <1% <1% <1%
Central/ South American <1% <1% 1% 1% 1% 2%
Australian/Asian <1% <1% <1% <1% <1% <1%
Not Recorded 1% 1% 1% <1% <1% <1%
Total 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100%

http://www.crimecouncil.gov.ie/statistics_cri_prison_table8.html#jsenabled=no

% Irish in 2002 = 92.8%
% Irish in 2006 = 88.9%

http://www.cso.ie/census/Census2006_Principal_Demographic_Results.htm

PapaQuebec · 29-11-2010 03:15AM

RMD wrote: »

Too right. The only people who should be allowed emigrate to another country are those who will benefit the country. Send those who are a liability home straight away, other than asylum seekers.

Asylum-seekers are one of the biggest problems given that the overwhelming majority of them are bogus (and found to be bogus). Just consider the cost of their innumerable legal challenges!

profitius · 29-11-2010 03:22AM

jordainius wrote: »

I'd imagine that benefit fraud committed by our own citizens dwarfs that of benefit fraud committed by non-nationals.

You imagine wrong so.

charlemont · 29-11-2010 03:31AM

twowheelsonly wrote: »

Absolutely we should do the same.
For crimes such as Murder, Rape etc I would have them serve a good stretch first and then deport them.
I would also include any indictable crimes, those that are Circuit Court and above. Anybody being jailed for the second time or more should also be included IMO. We have an enormous number of Foreign nationals in our jails, obviously at great expense to us, and many of these are repeat offenders. I don't mind anybody being locked up once (usually for minor crimes/fines) as this can happen to anybody but once they become repeat offenders it's time to wave goodbye to them.
At any given time we currently have between 400 and 600 foreign nationals in our Prisons (and sometimes more) - that's a huge proportion from roughly 4,000 prisoners. Sending these home would reduce overcrowding drastically as well as ensuring that those serving sentences serve a 'fair' proportion of their sentence rather than getting early release.

Call me xenophobic if you like but I'm just being realistic.

All ill say about foreigners in jail here is that they dont get bail as often as an Irish person due to address /residency issues.. how many Irish people would be on remand for such offences as cigarette smuggling or been involved in fights.. The rate of coloured people in particular in jail for serious offences like murder or rape is very low..whereas i know there is a few eastern Europeans inside for violent crime ok..But a lot of these prison spaces are just remand prisoners, I agree that anyone here who commits violent crime or serious fraud should be kicked out but i wouldnt be in favour of someone being deported for such offences as possesion of cannabis or drunkiness..

profitius · 29-11-2010 03:54AM

charlemont wrote: »

All ill say about foreigners in jail here is that they dont get bail as often as an Irish person due to address /residency issues.. how many Irish people would be on remand for such offences as cigarette smuggling or been involved in fights.. The rate of coloured people in particular in jail for serious offences like murder or rape is very low..whereas i know there is a few eastern Europeans inside for violent crime ok..But a lot of these prison spaces are just remand prisoners, I agree that anyone here who commits violent crime or serious fraud should be kicked out but i wouldnt be in favour of someone being deported for such offences as possesion of cannabis or drunkiness..

Can you back that up with facts? Throughout the world you'll find its the opposite.

Tar.Aldarion · 29-11-2010 04:56AM

What if it is illegal where you are from but you committed it somewhere where it is legal?

Capt'n Midnight · 29-11-2010 07:14AM

Irish citizens who do stuff abroad that would be illegal here are breaking Irish laws. Same is true for many other countries.

Whether we could prosecute someone for something that is legal here but illegal in their home country is a question all right. Hey let's chop off arms for thieving muslims :rolleyes:

Cookie_Monster · 29-11-2010 09:49AM

Victor wrote: »

Care to rephrase?

why? they are and the UAE has no shame in showing that. you are looked down upon by the locals if you are from anywhere in Asia, its mostly Indian, Filipinos etc doing all the ****ty jobs over there. EU, US & Aussie aren't looked down upon so much as just un-approved. And while Dubai & Abu Dubai are more tolerant because of so much outside business etc the other emirates are a lot less open or tolerant.

pickarooney · 29-11-2010 10:14AM

Cherrycola wrote: »

In Dubai, you commit a crime, you serve your time, and then you're deported, end of. And no one bats an eyelid or questions them about xenophobia!

Yeah, who in their right mind would accuse The UAE or Switzerland of being xenophobic? The very notion is preposterous.

bonerm · 29-11-2010 10:45AM

I like the Islamic minarets but on the other hand do think non-national criminals should be deported.

So I guess I half agree with them.

Nodin · 29-11-2010 10:50AM

smk89 wrote: »

Source: BBC

If its the case in Switzerland, its probably the same here.

Based, presumably, on our shared devotion to Toblerone.

bigbadbear · 29-11-2010 11:07AM

Maybe it would make sense to actually deny entry to Ireland in the first place to anyone with a criminal record?? that would make too much sense though....

Wompa1 · 29-11-2010 11:11AM

I'd say rape, murder, manslaughter, DUI and drug offenses myself

possibly for repeated assaults too.

Maybe not so much for minor traffic violations and the like.

Cork boy 55 · 29-11-2010 11:30AM

I think the swiss proposal is a good idea in theory.
as it acts like a great deterent for people from developing countries
The one think a crimnal(developing world) in a developed country fear
is deportation.
for example
Imagine a egyptian living in swizterland if he knows
that if he gets caught commiting massive social welfare fraud he will get deported it will deter him, far more than the threat short spell in a "cushy" swiss jail. I would much rather live in geneva than cario would u??
It will not happen here as there is no debate on immigration in the country.

In some other posts there appears to be a dispute in numbers
There are two ways to measure prison population

Snapshot
IF you take a snapshot of the prison population
you get an Irish % of between 85-90

Commitals
If you measure all prison commitals during year you get
a non-irish national prison commital popualtion of 34%

http://www.politics.ie/justice/135097-irelands-prison-population-non-irish-nationals-analysis.html

Swiss sending home non swiss for certain crimes

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