Swiss sending home non swiss for certain crimes

Sunnyisland

Swiss voters have backed a referendum proposal for the automatic expulsion of non-Swiss citizens for certain crimes.
Around 53% agreed that those convicted of crimes ranging from murder to benefit fraud should be deported.
Fabrice Moscheni, of the right-wing Swiss People's Party (SVP), which drew up the measure, said "people we welcome in Switzerland should respect the rules of this country".
But opponents said it was another example of increasing xenophobia.
The SVP was behind last year's referendum that imposed a ban on the building of Islamic minarets. That decision was condemned by human rights groups and foreign governments.


Should Ireland do the same,The benefit fraud is an intesting one as it seems to be abused here quite easily,

jordainius

I'd imagine that benefit fraud committed by our own citizens dwarfs that of benefit fraud committed by non-nationals.

JONJO THE MISER

What a great idea, petty we don't do the same here.

OutlawPete

No, that's not what they said.

They didn't say that ..

'Non-national criminals have to-go-home'.

They said ..

'Non-national criminals can have no more to-ble-rone'.

Sunnyisland

jordainius wrote: »

I'd imagine that benefit fraud committed by our own citizens dwarfs that of benefit fraud committed by non-nationals.

Maybe but it would be a start and it would certainly put of others coming here to abuse our own slow current enforcements,

twowheelsonly

Absolutely we should do the same.
For crimes such as Murder, Rape etc I would have them serve a good stretch first and then deport them.
I would also include any indictable crimes, those that are Circuit Court and above. Anybody being jailed for the second time or more should also be included IMO. We have an enormous number of Foreign nationals in our jails, obviously at great expense to us, and many of these are repeat offenders. I don't mind anybody being locked up once (usually for minor crimes/fines) as this can happen to anybody but once they become repeat offenders it's time to wave goodbye to them.
At any given time we currently have between 400 and 600 foreign nationals in our Prisons (and sometimes more) - that's a huge proportion from roughly 4,000 prisoners. Sending these home would reduce overcrowding drastically as well as ensuring that those serving sentences serve a 'fair' proportion of their sentence rather than getting early release.

Call me xenophobic if you like but I'm just being realistic.

Lab_Mouse

twowheelsonly wrote: »

Call me xenophobic if you like but I'm just being realistic.

nope your xenophopic and unrealistic

ejmaztec

twowheelsonly wrote: »

Absolutely we should do the same.
For crimes such as Murder, Rape etc I would have them serve a good stretch first and then deport them.
I would also include any indictable crimes, those that are Circuit Court and above. Anybody being jailed for the second time or more should also be included IMO. We have an enormous number of Foreign nationals in our jails, obviously at great expense to us, and many of these are repeat offenders. I don't mind anybody being locked up once (usually for minor crimes/fines) as this can happen to anybody but once they become repeat offenders it's time to wave goodbye to them.
At any given time we currently have between 400 and 600 foreign nationals in our Prisons (and sometimes more) - that's a huge proportion from roughly 4,000 prisoners. Sending these home would reduce overcrowding drastically as well as ensuring that those serving sentences serve a 'fair' proportion of their sentence rather than getting early release.

Call me xenophobic if you like but I'm just being realistic.

They should all get a kick up the Swiss, and be sent very far away, and that includes our own jailbirds.

twowheelsonly

Lab_Mouse wrote: »

nope your xenophopic and unrealistic

I know...:D

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

But they do get some free cheese before they go...

Cherrycola

In Dubai, you commit a crime, you serve your time, and then you're deported, end of. And no one bats an eyelid or questions them about xenophobia!
You abide by their rules or you're out on your ass, and for a lot less than murder in many cases! This has been their stance forever, foreigners are second class citizens. Ive lived there, i know the score.

The Swiss are dead right, i only wish Ireland would follow in their footsteps, and stop pussy-footing around minority groups, afraid of offending people. F**king grow a pair!! :mad:

starbelgrade

So someone commits a crime & they get sent home?

Hardly what I would consider a punishment.

Piste

I would like to see something like this here, automatic expulsion. I don't know if I'd like to see them do time here..on one hand it's pretty much a get out of jail free card just sending them home, but on the other hand making them do time here costs us a fortune. I'd like to see them gone in any case, I don't think it's Xenophobic to do so either.

Victor

Actually, some people are just deported.

Cherrycola wrote: »

foreigners are second class citizens.

Care to rephrase?

ejmaztec

starbelgrade wrote: »

So someone commits a crime & they get sent home?

Hardly what I would consider a punishment.

Especially if one of them only has to go as far as Offaly, although some may consider that to be worse than the death penalty.

KINGVictor

realies wrote: »

Swiss voters have backed a referendum proposal for the automatic expulsion of non-Swiss citizens for certain crimes.
Around 53% agreed that those convicted of crimes ranging from murder to benefit fraud should be deported.
Fabrice Moscheni, of the right-wing Swiss People's Party (SVP), which drew up the measure, said "people we welcome in Switzerland should respect the rules of this country".
But opponents said it was another example of increasing xenophobia.
The SVP was behind last year's referendum that imposed a ban on the building of Islamic minarets. That decision was condemned by human rights groups and foreign governments.


Should Ireland do the same,The benefit fraud is an intesting one as it seems to be abused here quite easily,

In reality Yes, Ireland could try and do the same but in all honesty Switzerland don't have the IMF , ECB in town not to talk of taking bilateral loans from the UK, Sweden and Denmark..

Technically Switzerland are not bound by a lot of the EU human rights regulations...fairplay to them but I will be thinking of sorting things in-house first and foremost...

Cherrycola

Victor wrote: »

Actually, some people are just deported.Care to rephrase?

No, because my comment relates to the stance held by Dubai authorities with regards to expats/foreigners, not MY opinion of foreigners.

Cherrycola

ejmaztec wrote: »

Especially if one of them only has to go as far as Offaly, although some may consider that to be worse than the death penalty.

Whats that supposed to mean?

For your information I left the ME of my own free will because i disliked the falseness of the whole place, and the lack of human rights, and i didnt want to raise my daughter in that kind of environment. We tried it and hated it.
We only lived there because of my husbands work, and unfortunately due to the economic situation here, he is still working out there cos he cant get a job back here.

So maybe you shouldnt make snap judgements about people based on one post, and a quick location check.

OPENROAD

realies wrote: »

Should Ireland do the same,The benefit fraud is an intesting one as it seems to be abused here quite easily,

Maybe all countries should do the same, no point just saying Ireland, or would it be a one way thing i.e. we send them back but we won't take our own back??

Midnight_EG

Swiss Cheese is too holey, and I'm Atheist...

Mister men

jordainius wrote: »

I'd imagine that benefit fraud committed by our own citizens dwarfs that of benefit fraud committed by non-nationals.

+1 but that does'nt mean the non nationals should get away with it.

Guy:Incognito

jordainius wrote: »

I'd imagine that benefit fraud committed by our own citizens dwarfs that of benefit fraud committed by non-nationals.

Whats that got to do with anything? We have to keep our own criminals, why keep (and pay for)ones we dont have to though?



Wonder will they still hold on to Roman Polanski?

KINGVictor wrote: »

In reality Yes, Ireland could try and do the same but in all honesty Switzerland don't have the IMF , ECB in town not to talk of taking bilateral loans from the UK, Sweden and Denmark..

We've been making our own rules for the best part of 90 years, the IMF are here a few days.We've been pandering to rent -a -hippies for years.

OPENROAD

Stekelly wrote: »

Whats that got to do with anything? We have to keep out own criminals, why keep (and pay for)ones we dont have to though?



Wonder will they still hold on to Roman Polanski?

I agree, so maybe a European policy, which would also see Irish been sent back?

Guy:Incognito

OPENROAD wrote: »

I agree, so maybe a European policy, which would also see Irish been sent back?

I wouldnt bother waiting for Europe tbh. Set up our own rule and let others worry about what they want to do. Irish criminals abroad are the problem of the country they are in until they decide what to do with them

OPENROAD

Stekelly wrote: »

I wouldnt bother waiting for Europe tbh. Set up our own rule and let others worry about what they want to do. Irish criminals abroad are the problem of the country they are in until they decide what to do with them

True am sure other countries would feel the same, just hope we don't start complaining if other countries implement the same policy, just like during the "Celtic Tiger" when we started contributing to the European fund

stovelid

A few dole frauds and non-national criminals wouldn't exactly be in my Deportation Greatest Hits at the moment but do keep on obsessing with the easy targets if you haven't been watching the news recently.

Guy:Incognito

stovelid wrote: »

A few dole frauds and non-national criminals wouldn't exactly be in my Deportation Greatest Hits at the moment but do keep on obsessing with the easy targets if you haven't been watching the news recently.

Why not weed out a few easy targets?

They are easy afterall.

Are we only botherign with a certain level of criminal now?Petty crime is ok?

RMD

Too right. The only people who should be allowed emigrate to another country are those who will benefit the country. Send those who are a liability home straight away, other than asylum seekers.

stovelid

Stekelly wrote: »

Why not weed out a few easy targets?

They are easy afterall.

Are we only botherign with a certain level of criminal now?Petty crime is ok?

Not at all but I have priorities.

I also assume it's a bilateral agreement insofar as Irish people get immediately deported from the States or the UK for, say, working cash in hand?

ejmaztec

Cherrycola wrote: »

Whats that supposed to mean?

For your information I left the ME of my own free will because i disliked the falseness of the whole place, and the lack of human rights, and i didnt want to raise my daughter in that kind of environment. We tried it and hated it.
We only lived there because of my husbands work, and unfortunately due to the economic situation here, he is still working out there cos he cant get a job back here.

So maybe you shouldnt make snap judgements about people based on one post, and a quick location check.

I wasn't actually replying to your post, so don't get so fizzed up.

strobe

I fukking love Switzerland.

I thought that if you were from a non-EU country and you commit a serious crime here you will not have your GNIB card renewed. Its a condition of a non-Eu citizens right to live here that they obey the laws of the state.

Capt'n Midnight

twowheelsonly wrote: »

At any given time we currently have between 400 and 600 foreign nationals in our Prisons (and sometimes more) - that's a huge proportion from roughly 4,000 prisoners.

Any links to back this up , and show it's higher than the % of foreigners in the general population.

Senna

*Ideally* we should adopt and widen this proposal, anyone national or non-national should be kicked out of the country if they commit a serious crime. You break the law (murder, rape, armed theft etc), you forfeit your residency.

Piste

According to the CSO, in 2006 there were 419,733 non-Irish living in Ireland, representing 10% of the population[1].

According to the 2009 Annual Prison Services Report, Irish nationals accounted for 89.2% of the total number of persons in custody under sentence on the 4th December 2009[2]. So 10.8% of prisoners are non Irish, which roughly corresponds to the number of non-Irish living here.

[edit: the pre-edited version of this post said .1%, I copied and pasted wrong from the CSO website so that figure was totally wrong]








[1]http://cso.ie/statistics/nationalityagegroup.htm
[2]http://www.irishprisons.ie/documents/AnnualReport2009PDF.pdf

Mr Benevolent

It's different in Switzerland. The people voted to expel non-national criminals. As a people, we will never, ever vote for anything like that. Why? because we aren't involved in the decision making process.

Unless you count voting the most popular person into the Dail 'decision making', that is.

OPENROAD

Confab wrote: »

It's different in Switzerland. The people voted to expel non-national criminals. As a people, we will never, ever vote for anything like that. Why? because we aren't involved in the decision making process.

Unless you count voting the most popular person into the Dail 'decision making', that is.

Doesn't our vote count on constitutional matters?

What was the Lisbon vote all about?

BraziliaNZ

I know you all love Roma on boards but nearly every morning they're outside the bridewell coming out of a night in the cells (I work beside it), and all they seem to do is beg. Send them home? Yes please! They do nothing for society!

Rodin

Piste wrote: »

According to the CSO, in 2006 there were 419,733 non-Irish living in Ireland, representing 0.1% of the population[1].

According to the 2009 Annual Prison Services Report, Irish nationals accounted for 89.2% of the total number of persons in custody under sentence on the 4th December 2009[2]. So 10.8% of prisoners are non Irish, despite that fact that only 1% of the population is non-Irish.

[1]http://cso.ie/statistics/nationalityagegroup.htm
[2]http://www.irishprisons.ie/documents/AnnualReport2009PDF.pdf

That figure is closer to 10 %.
0.1 % of the population would give us a population of nearly 1/2 million

Capt'n Midnight

Piste wrote: »

According to the CSO, in 2006 there were 419,733 non-Irish living in Ireland, representing 0.1% of the population[1].

According to the 2009 Annual Prison Services Report, Irish nationals accounted for 89.2% of the total number of persons in custody under sentence on the 4th December 2009[2]. So 10.8% of prisoners are non Irish, despite that fact that only 1% of the population is non-Irish.



[1]http://cso.ie/statistics/nationalityagegroup.htm
[2]http://www.irishprisons.ie/documents/AnnualReport2009PDF.pdf

You might want to check our population again

Total non-Irish 419,733
Total 4,172,013
so non-Irish are 10.06% which is close enought to 10.8%

However in the 25-44 years age group it's 219,281 out of a total of 1,320,551 which is 16.6% ( I'm guessing a lot of prisoners would be in this age group)

BraziliaNZ

Rodin wrote: »

That figure is closer to 10 %.
0.1 % of the population would give us a population of nearly 1/2 million

Your numbers are screwed up too lol

Rodin

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

Your numbers are screwed up too lol

I should have said billion!
Well, an american billion

Piste

Jaysus didn't spot that at all, corrected it there. You're a sharp one you are

Victor

Piste wrote: »

According to the CSO, in 2006 there were 419,733 non-Irish living in Ireland, representing 0.1% of the population[1].

According to the 2009 Annual Prison Services Report, Irish nationals accounted for 89.2% of the total number of persons in custody under sentence on the 4th December 2009[2]. So 10.8% of prisoners are non Irish, despite that fact that only 1% of the population is non-Irish.

[1]http://cso.ie/statistics/nationalityagegroup.htm
[2]http://www.irishprisons.ie/documents/AnnualReport2009PDF.pdf

419,733 / 4,172,013 = 10.06%

100%-89.2% = 10.8%

Materially irrelevant.

Piste

Didn't read the corrected post, no?

smk89

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Any links to back this up , and show it's higher than the % of foreigners in the general population.

The SVP says immigrants to Switzerland are disproportionately responsible for crime. It points to the fact that more than 60% of prison inmates do not have Swiss nationality.

Source: BBC

If its the case in Switzerland, its probably the same here.

Piste

We've just shown that it's not the same here, not at all (even though my dodgy maths made it look to be the oppiste earlier, but I've fixed my post).

Mrmoe

Piste wrote: »

We've just shown that it's not the same here, not at all (even though my dodgy maths made it look to be the oppiste earlier, but I've fixed my post).

If you look at the year range 2001-2006 your initial post was correct

Nationality 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006
Irish 82% 77% 73% 79% 74% 70%
EU 3% 3% 3% 2% 3% 10%
Other European 6% 10% 13% 9% 12% 6%
Asian 1% 2% 2% 2% 2% 5%
African 4% 4% 5% 4% 5% 6%
North American <1% <1% <1% <1% <1% <1%
Central/ South American <1% <1% 1% 1% 1% 2%
Australian/Asian <1% <1% <1% <1% <1% <1%
Not Recorded 1% 1% 1% <1% <1% <1%
Total 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100%

http://www.crimecouncil.gov.ie/statistics_cri_prison_table8.html#jsenabled=no

% Irish in 2002 = 92.8%
% Irish in 2006 = 88.9%

http://www.cso.ie/census/Census2006_Principal_Demographic_Results.htm

PapaQuebec

RMD wrote: »

Too right. The only people who should be allowed emigrate to another country are those who will benefit the country. Send those who are a liability home straight away, other than asylum seekers.

Asylum-seekers are one of the biggest problems given that the overwhelming majority of them are bogus (and found to be bogus). Just consider the cost of their innumerable legal challenges!

profitius

jordainius wrote: »

I'd imagine that benefit fraud committed by our own citizens dwarfs that of benefit fraud committed by non-nationals.

You imagine wrong so.

charlemont

twowheelsonly wrote: »

Absolutely we should do the same.
For crimes such as Murder, Rape etc I would have them serve a good stretch first and then deport them.
I would also include any indictable crimes, those that are Circuit Court and above. Anybody being jailed for the second time or more should also be included IMO. We have an enormous number of Foreign nationals in our jails, obviously at great expense to us, and many of these are repeat offenders. I don't mind anybody being locked up once (usually for minor crimes/fines) as this can happen to anybody but once they become repeat offenders it's time to wave goodbye to them.
At any given time we currently have between 400 and 600 foreign nationals in our Prisons (and sometimes more) - that's a huge proportion from roughly 4,000 prisoners. Sending these home would reduce overcrowding drastically as well as ensuring that those serving sentences serve a 'fair' proportion of their sentence rather than getting early release.

Call me xenophobic if you like but I'm just being realistic.

All ill say about foreigners in jail here is that they dont get bail as often as an Irish person due to address /residency issues.. how many Irish people would be on remand for such offences as cigarette smuggling or been involved in fights.. The rate of coloured people in particular in jail for serious offences like murder or rape is very low..whereas i know there is a few eastern Europeans inside for violent crime ok..But a lot of these prison spaces are just remand prisoners, I agree that anyone here who commits violent crime or serious fraud should be kicked out but i wouldnt be in favour of someone being deported for such offences as possesion of cannabis or drunkiness..