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Pat Rabbitte, short memory?

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  • 19-11-2010 11:16am
    #1
    DeVore
    Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    "Economic growth and prosperity have changed the face of our country. The prosperity dreamt of by the founders of the Irish state has been achieved.... Ireland is no longer the failed entity of the past."—Pat Rabbitte, 2007 (source http://www.labour.ie/manifesto/1.html)


    A pox on ALL their houses.

    DeV.


«1345

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    #2
    IvyTheTerrible
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭IvyTheTerrible


    Yep totally agree. Very easy to do a shouty rant against FF when everyone is against them.


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    #3
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Did this need a seperate thread? ;)


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    #4
    skelliser
    Registered Users Posts: 2,985 ✭✭✭skelliser


    why does this need a seperate thread?


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    #5
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,101 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Yep the usual political blowharding and like you say it's pretty much all of them. FG/FF/L/SF/G, delete your personal allegiance as applicable.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #6
    chin_grin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,808 ✭✭✭✭chin_grin


    ........is it not "a plague" on their houses? I'd much prefer a plague. On their houses.


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    #7
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,101 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    What's brilliant is he(and he wasn't alone) said this in 07 at the very height of the unsustainable bubble, so if you think much would have changed with anyone else at the helm you'd be on a loser IMH.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #8
    Cavehill Red
    Registered Users Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭Cavehill Red


    skelliser wrote: »
    why does this need a seperate thread?

    Of course not.
    But those looking to divert blame from where it belongs - ie Fianna Fail - will do anything in their power to try distraction tactics.


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    #9
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    The Irish economy is like a shopping centre's access to the upper floors, escalators up & stairs down!

    It's easy for everyone to ride up, but hard work to walk down, or in some cases fall down! The IMF will give us a hard push down a few steps.


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    #10
    chin_grin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,808 ✭✭✭✭chin_grin


    FOUR LEGS GOOD, TWO LEGS BAD.

    FOUR LEGS GOOD, TWO LEGS BAD.


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    #11
    Cavehill Red
    Registered Users Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭Cavehill Red


    DeVore wrote: »
    "Economic growth and prosperity have changed the face of our country. The prosperity dreamt of by the founders of the Irish state has been achieved.... Ireland is no longer the failed entity of the past."—Pat Rabbitte, 2007 (source http://www.labour.ie/manifesto/1.html)


    A pox on ALL their houses.

    DeV.

    Pat Rabbitte didn't have access to the cooked government books when he said that.
    Pat Rabbitte was taking the lying government ministers at their word when they said the economic outlook for Ireland was never better.
    Pat Rabbitte was not aware that Fianna Fail were assisting their Galway tent banker pals in defrauding the state.
    If you're looking to blame Pat Rabbitte for the mess we're currently in, you're sadly deluded.


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    #12
    FatherLen
    Registered Users Posts: 3,808 ✭✭✭FatherLen


    there is a thread for this already you jerk. just look a few inches lower and you will see it. :mad:

    Mod: Poster banned for this comment.


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    #13
    super_furry
    Registered Users Posts: 27,322 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    In 2007 economic growth and prosperity HAD changed the face of our country and. The prosperity dreamt of by the founders of the Irish state HAD been achieved.

    Pat Rabbitte and his party were not privy to the true reasons as to why this appeared to have happened though, and were unaware - like everyone else in the country - of the crimes that Fianna Fail were committing against the state.


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    #14
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,067 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Well whatever. I think what he said last night was from the heart and devoid of his pre-programmed party line. Either way, he said what most people are thinking. Doesn't really matter who it was saying it, imo.


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    #15
    DeVore
    Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    mike65 wrote: »
    Did this need a seperate thread? ;)

    Because i think hypocrisy should be highlighted when it's clear.
    Cavehill Red wrote: »
    Of course not.
    But those looking to divert blame from where it belongs - ie Fianna Fail - will do anything in their power to try distraction tactics.

    F*ck FF, they are primarily to blame. But I did say ALL their houses. ALL.

    DeV.


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    #16
    Cavehill Red
    Registered Users Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭Cavehill Red


    DeVore wrote: »
    F*ck FF, they are primarily to blame. But I did say ALL their houses. ALL.

    DeV.

    Yes, you did, and you were wrong to do so, because some of those 'houses' weren't in power and did not contribute at all to the mess we're in and you're being disingenuous suggesting otherwise.


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    #17
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,101 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Cavehill Red wrote: »
    Of course not.
    But those looking to divert blame from where it belongs - ie Fianna Fail - will do anything in their power to try distraction tactics.
    I can't abide FF. Think they're a bunch of crooked gangsters and have been since the foundation of this state under Dev. The others have their moments but brains is an outlier in our poliitical class(and in much of our electorate too BTW).
    Cavehill Red wrote: »
    Pat Rabbitte didn't have access to the cooked government books when he said that.
    Pat Rabbitte was taking the lying government ministers at their word when they said the economic outlook for Ireland was never better.
    Pat Rabbitte was not aware that Fianna Fail were assisting their Galway tent banker pals in defrauding the state.
    If you're looking to blame Pat Rabbitte for the mess we're currently in, you're sadly deluded.
    Well was he blind? The dogs on the street could have told you all of that, but since the same dogs were of the Im alright jack, keep my head down mentality bugger all happened and anyone who dared to suggest otherwise was looked on as being "pessimistic". Your second point is hardly sensible for an opposition leader. Their job is to call them on the BS.

    Though I would say there is some distraction going on and it's not so much from the usual crew, it's from the europhiles. What has been noticeably absent in the Irish media and politicos is any suggestion that us joining the euro currency had a huge part to play in this. "Oh noes, how dare you!!, we're Europeans you know". I liked the EEC, the EC ditto, we got a lot from membership, but the Euro was a step too far as far as steering our own economic boat was concerned. When the dust has settled in a few years, our "sovereignty" to the IMF won't be an issue, our sovereignty as far as the unelected civil service class in Brussels and Bonn will be(cue uncritical EU lovers going apeshít).

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #18
    skelliser
    Registered Users Posts: 2,985 ✭✭✭skelliser


    DeVore wrote: »
    Because i think hypocrisy should be highlighted when it's clear.

    That is your opinion.

    The oppositions budgetary and election manifestos are based on information provided to them by the gov. of the day.
    Its clear now that the books were being cooked.

    Also you were very selective in your qoute. Labour in 2007 were the only party to say they would do away with property based tax breaks which would have helped a little to ease the economic collapse.

    Granted alot of people got caught in the headlights but Pat Rabbittes outburst was more about the incompetent and imo corrupt decisions which have been made since 2008.


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    #19
    dr ro
    Registered Users Posts: 970 ✭✭✭dr ro


    FatherLen wrote: »
    there is a thread for this already you jerk. just look a few inches lower and you will see it. :mad:

    Mod: Poster banned for this comment.

    why the ban?


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    #20
    mloc123
    Registered Users Posts: 9,454 ✭✭✭mloc123


    Politics this way >>>


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    #21
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,101 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Lets examine these points further;
    Cavehill Red wrote: »
    Pat Rabbitte didn't have access to the cooked government books when he said that.
    He didn't need to. The bubble was speaking for itself.
    Pat Rabbitte was taking the lying government ministers at their word when they said the economic outlook for Ireland was never better.
    Well then with respect, he was either colluding with that nonsense or he was a fool. In 2007 the building industry was building twice as many properties as the UK in the same year with its population of 60+ millions. Worse it was building properties that simply couldn't be filled by our population for at least a generation. Secondly it was clear to anyone who cared to look that 100% mortgages were on the cards. It was an open secret. Could he and others not joined the dots. I did and I'm not the sharpest on this stuff.
    Pat Rabbitte was not aware that Fianna Fail were assisting their Galway tent banker pals in defrauding the state.
    Yea well I've been around such tents and I can tell you they're not only populated by FF.
    If you're looking to blame Pat Rabbitte for the mess we're currently in, you're sadly deluded.
    Hence he said all and I agree.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #22
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,101 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    skelliser wrote: »
    The oppositions budgetary and election manifestos are based on information provided to them by the gov. of the day.
    Its clear now that the books were being cooked.
    Forget the "books" he could have just looked out the window and would have seen the obvious disparities and the most obvious inflationary bubble since the big bang.
    Also you were very selective in your qoute. Labour in 2007 were the only party to say they would do away with property based tax breaks which would have helped a little to ease the economic collapse.
    Eh in 2007? Grand idea, about 8 years too late. Gate close, horse bolted springs to mind.
    Granted alot of people got caught in the headlights but Pat Rabbittes outburst was more about the incompetent and imo corrupt decisions which have been made since 2008.
    That part I agree with. Especially the rush through of NAMA after quite a few advised against it.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #23
    PanchoVilla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭PanchoVilla


    Ireland has a successful economy, but a society under strain. Hard working families across Ireland live life on a treadmill - a never-ending and ever more grinding cycle of traffic, work, and responsibility. Sections of our people continue to suffer disadvantage and deprivation. One in nine of our children live in poverty, and in some schools, one in three suffers severe literacy difficulties. Growing anti-social behaviour makes life miserable for vulnerable people and their communities. There are signs, particularly among our young people, of a society ill at ease with itself and in need of a fresh sense of purpose.

    We cannot take our economic success for granted, but neither can we be content with economic success alone. We must measure ourselves too by the quality of our civilisation - by the kind of Ireland we create and bequeath to our children.We must seize the opportunity afforded to us by peace and prosperity to build an Ireland that I call the Fair Society.

    The Fair Society is built on a prosperous and sustainable economy, personal liberty and social solidarity.

    http://www.labour.ie/manifesto/1.html

    Say what you like about Pat Rabbitte, but at least he knows that a successful society is not based solely on a successful "economy" (which is a load of shíte, imaginary numbers not based in reality whatsoever) but on a fair and equal system which is judged by it's poorest and most vulnerable citizens, not it's wealthiest and most powerful.

    Poor form Dev, that quote you took was completely out of context. I would have thought the people of Ireland, especially the head of such a popular site as boards.ie, would take this opportunity to put partisan politics aside and come together to find a way out of this disaster we all find ourselves in. Pat Rabbitte only said what everyone in this country is feeling at the moment and I'm glad he did. I don't give a damn about his politics or his party but he has my respect as a human being.


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    #24
    donal_mcg
    Registered Users Posts: 48 ✭donal_mcg


    One thing that is missing from any commentary on this whole mess is the role that the irish people had to play in things going tits up. This cannot be blamed solely on FF/other parties/builders/bankers alone. Nearly everyone was complicit in making this mess. I have no house, never been able to afford one (or didn't see the point in paying 400K+ to live in Cavan/Laois etc) but the amount of times I had to sit in pubs and listen to people boasting about profits they made from sales of their houses / trading up made me sick. 50% of the population were acting like they were financial geniuses (genii?) by being able to buy and then sell a house while boasting about their ability to do this.

    For sure, all of the crooks (FF/banks/developers) put in place the machine to enable people to do this but not many listened to the economists who were saying stop or to think of the people trying just to buy somewhere to live rather than a 3rd gaff to milk money off others less fortunate. But just like the government, not one person I know is taking responsibility for their actions, its all someone elses fault. In my opinion Pat Rabitte should have been staring at the camera, directing his tirade not just at FF but at the general public also


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    #25
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    PanchoVilla wrote: »
    Poor form Dev, that quote you took was completely out of context. I would have thought the people of Ireland, especially the head of such a popular site as boards.ie, would take this opportunity to put partisan politics aside and come together to find a way out of this disaster we all find ourselves in..

    That's exactly what it does. By highlighting the nonsense that is the mob running from one party to the next based on populist cheap shots, it reminds people to look deeper, all that glistens is not gold etc. There are more options out there than running straight from FF to Labour, for example.

    Rabitte may have talked the talk last night but is he really willing to walk the walk, and that's my quota of clichés filled.


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    #26
    Cavehill Red
    Registered Users Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭Cavehill Red


    prinz wrote: »
    Rabitte may have talked the talk last night but is he really willing to walk the walk, and that's my quota of clichés filled.

    Elect him to government and you'll find out.


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    #27
    c_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭c_man


    DeVore wrote: »
    A pox on ALL their houses.

    + a million.

    They just don't get how fed up people are with the whole system. How it doesn't work, corrupts and is treated as a playground for those who couldn't get enough of student politics.

    Remember a few weeks ago a guy echoing the above to Rabitte on the Frontline. He responded by going into a right tizzy, spouting some rubbish about "if you want to change things, then join a party."

    If you hate FF so much Pat, why not join it and change it from the inside....?


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    #28
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Cavehill Red wrote: »
    Elect him to government and you'll find out.

    It doesn't work like that.


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    #29
    Cavehill Red
    Registered Users Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭Cavehill Red


    prinz wrote: »
    It doesn't work like that.

    Sure it does. If the poster wishes to see Rabbitte 'walk the walk' then all they need do is vote his party into government.


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    #30
    ch750536
    Registered Users Posts: 3,736 ✭✭✭ch750536


    donal_mcg wrote: »
    Pat Rabitte should have been staring at the camera, directing his tirade not just at FF but at the general public also

    Yeah, thats right. It's my fault that
    ~Politicians hid the true state of the banks when they gave the guarantee
    ~Banks behaved like a casinos & lost with how they gave out mortgages.
    ~Banks committed fraud on their balance sheets
    ~Politicians backed the banks as they are effectively a politicians pension fund
    ~Banks continue to this day to lie and deceive (passwords anyone?)
    ~Politicians continue to lie & deceive (Shrill bidding for bonds anyone?)

    Yeah, all my fault. How dare I pay my mortgage each month!

    (ffs @ you btw.)


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    #31
    Noreen1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭Noreen1


    donal_mcg wrote: »
    One thing that is missing from any commentary on this whole mess is the role that the irish people had to play in things going tits up. This cannot be blamed solely on FF/other parties/builders/bankers alone. Nearly everyone was complicit in making this mess. I have no house, never been able to afford one (or didn't see the point in paying 400K+ to live in Cavan/Laois etc) but the amount of times I had to sit in pubs and listen to people boasting about profits they made from sales of their houses / trading up made me sick. 50% of the population were acting like they were financial geniuses (genii?) by being able to buy and then sell a house while boasting about their ability to do this.

    For sure, all of the crooks (FF/banks/developers) put in place the machine to enable people to do this but not many listened to the economists who were saying stop or to think of the people trying just to buy somewhere to live rather than a 3rd gaff to milk money off others less fortunate. But just like the government, not one person I know is taking responsibility for their actions, its all someone elses fault. In my opinion Pat Rabitte should have been staring at the camera, directing his tirade not just at FF but at the general public also

    What percentage of the Irish public actually engaged in property speculation, though?
    It seems to me that, the average "Joe Soap" had enough to do to service one mortgage. Comparatively few would have been able to service more than one?
    Of those who traded up, how many are now in mortgage arrears?
    Should we also direct a tirade at those who bought a family home at market prices, only to find their previously secure incomes were flushed away with the remnants of the "Celtic Tiger"?

    Noreen


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