Freemasons?

PanchoVilla wrote: »

Surely a member of such a reputable organization would strive to be the best person he can be and not kill people or rape young boys.

Did you miss the bit that Humaji pointed out? People change. Hitler didn't grow up thinking about shovelling Jews into an Oven you know. Someone could join an organisation - say the Masons - for the right reasons, and then through some sort of traumatic even in their lives turn into an axe murderer over time. People are people.

PanchoVilla wrote: »

There's this awesome thing called Google ... You should try it sometime.

And you should lay off Google and go do some real world investigation. The best thing about Google, is that you can get it to give you any results you want Go to a Lodge hall, meet some people, ask your questions in real life instead of on a forum where it's easy to dismiss people's experiences and opinions as words on a screen and stick with your ill-founded fantasies.

Supposedly Mount Moriah, but the exact location is unknown as excavations aren't really the type of thing which keep the authorities happy over there. There's all sorts of proposed locations on the same hill - wikipedia has a pretty good article on it.

This is the problem with history, it'd be really amazing IMHO if we had proper documenation on where the temple was built for sure, where the ark of the covenant went, even little things like if someone'd drawn the hanging gardens of bablyon, or the library of alexandria hadn't been destroyed.

I'm no Bible scholar. Honestly, I've little interest in the Bible itself, so to be 100% truthful, I've read bits of it, but not all of it.

PanchoVilla wrote: »

Very true, but the suggestion that Freemasonry is a good and charitable organization that teaches how to be an honest, upstanding citizen isn't looking too good. Surely a member of such a reputable organization would strive to be the best person he can be and not kill people or rape young boys.

Humans are humans. I think you're expecting the masons to some how create superhuman avatars of virtue. People in all walks of life commit crimes. People in all walks of life lead honest lives. You can't judge a group because of an individual. And you can't expect someone to automatically become a good person if they are not.

Now please, a little less of the gross generalisations.

paddymacsporran wrote: »

As a freemason, I laughed heartily at the Simpons stone-cutters episode. Especially the song. It's peat briquettes to the conspiracy theorists.

http://www.leoslyrics.com/listlyrics.php?hid=qqdg9Am3%2Fls%3D

Regarding information about a candidate and any criminal record, I can only refer to my experience of my own lodge and it's workings. My mother lodge is in Scotland, but the essentials are the same. And to non-masons, you can pick that apart as you wish.

In passing a candidate, we of course would refer to the local justiciary, local religious leaders, local police, army and councillors to ascertain the suitability and moral fibre of any candidate. Any rumour on conjecture would of course result in a blackballing....

Well, that's what you WANT to hear, isn't it? Now this bit may disappoint you, but the slightly boring fact is every members vote is confidential. If a candidate is refused, no-one knows who didn't think said person was suitable for whatever reason. And that's the end of the matter.

And referring to my earlier post, the points I made are the basics of freemasonry the world over - Anyone not complying honestly to said points would not benefit freemasonry, and perhaps more importantly, nor would freemasonry benefit them. And before the vultures swoop on that statement, I mean benefit in a moral sense other than a material one.

Freemasonry will give much more to any man than it will take from him. Any fellow mason will agree with that statement I'm sure. And to anyone considering joining, I would recommend it wholeheartedly.

I await the vultures tearing over my every word and picking out the scraps.

PaintDoctor wrote: »

That Simpson's episode is scarily accurate. I broke my ass laughing the whole way through it. Lots to catch up on in this thread since I was away!

How do we check if someone has a criminal record? Well, we can't really. We don't have access to any sort of database, but we have newspapers on Google, and of course, word of mouth around places where people live. It's not foolproof though, but has worked 99% of the time.

This is really funny, we have two masons contradicting each other. Paddy states that his lodge refers to the local judiciary, police, etc. when considering someone for membership. Clearly, this is a background check on a prospective candidate.

Paint Doctor, on the other hand, states that they "can't really" check if someone has a criminal record, save using google, newspapers and word of mouth around the locality. Now, as I pointed out in an earlier post, all of these methods are unreliable in verifying a person's criminal record. Most convictions are not reported in the paper and would not be known around the locality. Paint Doctor's assertion that they "can't really" check a person's criminal record (or lack thereof) is bemusing because in a previous post, he stated:

"but you would [keep someone out] if they actually had a criminal record for anything at all."

Anything at all? But how would you refuse a person membership if you didn't perform a criminal background check and therefore couldn't establish whether a person has a conviction?

(Bear in mind that using google/newspapers/local knowledge will not be sufficient in establishing a person's criminal history in most cases).

PaintDoctor wrote: »

Of course.

Of course, but common sense is also used. You wouldn't keep someone out for an overdue library book, or anything like that, but you would if they actually had a criminal record for anything at all. You'd also keep someone out if you heard through word of mouth if they were generally a bad egg - you know the sort, doesn't have a criminal record, but might slap the wife around, or is a bit of an ass with too much drink in them.

The objective in the excercise is to only allow people with good morals join.

Richard tea wrote: »

''Again, how do the masons get access to this info?''

This sort of information can be obtained through a freemason that's a member of the Gardai or some other member of the courts. Its most likely illegal. I think the simpsons episode of the stone cutters pretty much sums up what being a freemason is all about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT0WEFs2S90

It's definitely illegal, but it's probably the most likely way they get the info they need. However, this method raises a number of issues:

(1) Afaik Gardai are not allowed to join political parties, so they're hardly allowed to join a secret society like the Freemasons.

(2) If a Guard/organisation engages in those sort of practices, then they are quite dodgy themselves. I thought the masons only recruited persons of the highest moral fibre.

(3) Data protection issues.

this is the main problem with the masons,freemasons do much charitable work,but have been criticized in recent years for their secrecy, their male exclusivity,and their alleged use of influence within and between organizations [for example,the police or LOCAL GOVERMENT]to further each others interests.there are over 6 million members .its the police and local goverment corruption thing,that hurts people most,because some time or other we all come up against it,i know i have

Johnny Utah wrote: »

This is really funny, we have two masons contradicting each other.

Not really odd TBH, as stated previously, here in Ireland we have different Lodges using different rituals/workings due to historical reasons. Stands to reason that any large organisation will have different branches doing things slightly differently. I can only comment on my own province and on how they do things. Doesn't mean that I have to be right, or the other guy has to be wrong, both scenarios can exist as a result of both lodges being separate entities.

The Recliner wrote: »

Can you back this up please

www.windymedia.ie/article/78449.

ROFL, you quoted Eastern Star. Did you miss the bit where I said Eastern Star isn't actually Masonry, but uses the name, and copies regalia? Fail again there Pancho. You should really stop googling now and try some actual research.