How do you feel about pro video gamers?

SuperInfinity · 14-11-2010 07:51PM

SugarHigh wrote: »

Lol every game can be completed with a comprehensive if-then else guide:)

You could say that any FPS game be completed once you have a fast enough twitch reflex.

Civ5 is far more complicated than chess and is one if the examples I used. I still rate SC2 higher than chess. Your whole concept if strategy is flawed and your missing the key component of strategy and that's efficiency which SC2 pushes much stinger than although chess A.I push it hard as well.

I agree that on a certain level all of these games can be equally complex, unlike straightforward games like "running". I guess I just prefer the "easy to learn, hard to master" type of games.

pwd · 15-11-2010 10:03PM

SugarHigh wrote: »

Lol every game can be completed with a comprehensive if-then else guide:)

You could say that any FPS game be completed once you have a fast enough twitch reflex.

Civ5 is far more complicated than chess and is one if the examples I used. I still rate SC2 higher than chess. Your whole concept if strategy is flawed and your missing the key component of strategy and that's efficiency which SC2 pushes much stinger than although chess A.I push it hard as well.

If you take the raw size of the game tree as a measure of the complexity of a game, then possibly Starcraft and games like that would appear more complex to master than games like chess.

However, it's misleading to consider the raw game tree as a direct indicator of the strategic complexity. The best chess players don't know the game tree beyond the most common opening few moves. After that they rely on heuristics and creativity.

The difference between chess (and the like) and the sort of computer strategy games being discussed here is that the heuristics are often all you need to win the computer strategy games. While the number of different possible states is still massive, it is far simpler to summarise them into the appropriate responses for each type.

On the other hand, if you relied only on heuristics only to play chess, then you would be frequently caught out by more creative players, no matter how well you "knew the rules".

TimeToShine · 15-11-2010 10:15PM

Kold wrote: »

They work harder than most of us do at our jobs and the cash that can be earned seriously diminishes if you don't consistently come first.

It's not like players at Liverpool who rake in thousands despite playing sh*t.

You'll also find that a lot of the high ranked players aren't your stereotypical nerds (a lot are) but are simply sharp and disciplined people.

Are you serious?

Kold · 15-11-2010 11:30PM

TimeToShine wrote: »

Are you serious?

Tens of thousands are still thousands...

SuperInfinity · 16-11-2010 12:14AM

Kold wrote: »

Tens of thousands are still thousands...

Haaaaaaahahahaha.... more like 10s of millions dude.

I suppose now you're going to say something like "oh I meant per week". In general speak when you talk about salary it means per year. Let's just leave it at that.

aDeener · 16-11-2010 12:19AM

Wasters

aDeener · 16-11-2010 12:21AM

bonerm wrote: »

I say fair play to them. Who knows, maybe in 100 years time pro video game playing might be the "premiership" of sports (with money to match) and sports that involve physiciality might be considered nothing more than a juvenile throwback.

(from a decreasingl-rare person who follows both video games and real sports).

lol

--LOS-- · 16-11-2010 12:53AM

It's just about whatever makes you happy, I don't see any problem with it, you don't have to be doing anything ground-breaking. I study physics but if I had my way at the time I would have studied art, one is probably held in much more esteem by other people but that shouldn't matter to the person doing it.

Tar.Aldarion · 16-11-2010 03:31AM

Very good for those that can get it, fps would be good. It's more fun casually-competitive though

Kold · 16-11-2010 03:49AM

SuperInfinity wrote: »

Haaaaaaahahahaha.... more like 10s of millions dude.

I suppose now you're going to say something like "oh I meant per week". In general speak when you talk about salary it means per year. Let's just leave it at that.

But I did mean per week.

And I don't think that even Torres is in the tens of millions on club wages.

Irish Guitarist · 16-11-2010 05:24AM

I don't get it. I can't understand how anyone can stand to watch someone else play a video game. It would bore me to tears. If they can earn a fortune from pressing some buttons good for them though.

Jesus Wept · 16-11-2010 05:53AM

It's a game, not a sport. That doesn't detract from it.

flas · 16-11-2010 07:15AM

SuperInfinity wrote: »

Why? Being a pro Quake player takes more skill, talent and dedication than being a pro soccer player (only partly because there are so many pro soccer players).

Two of the original members of SK gaming are now professional footballers, I think there is another guy who became a pro basketball player. There is a large overlap between people who are good at FPS games and good at real-life sports, because they require the same type of skills of learning what works and getting incredibly good at it... unlike so-called "strategy" games.

seriously? not only do professional footballers have to be super quick with their thinking and decide what to do with the ball before they even get it they also need to be in super human condition to be able to play their sport at any sort of professional level and be willing to put their bodies on the line. the only way a pro gamer could get hurt is if their computer fell on them or something!

Sykk · 16-11-2010 10:36AM

If you're good enough at something, good on ya. Haters gonna hate.

FutureGuy · 16-11-2010 12:15PM

SV wrote: »

Laziness does not equal being a waster..
lol

Lol, it's funny what constitutes the term "waster" in Ireland today. I play games quite regularly. I also have a good career so idon't think I can be classed as a waster. I was out with friends for a few pints the night before a Street Figher IV tournament when the topic came up.

One of the guys (friend of a friend) couldn't believe I would go all the way to Dublin with a specially designed 150 euro arcade fightstick "to play with other wasters".

This is the same guy that, every weekend, will get home as fast as he can on a Friday and spend the weekend boozing and sleeping until Monday morning (or Tuesday if he takes a sick day). And it's funny that in Ireland, someone like that is lauded for it! And he says gamers are the wasters!?!

I played football to a really high Junior level, trained 3-4 nights a week and I loved every minute of it. I take my gaming just as seriously, and while I am not very good, I have huge respect for anyone that makes a living doing something they love to do.

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

I don't get it. I can't understand how anyone can stand to watch someone else play a video game. It would bore me to tears. If they can earn a fortune from pressing some buttons good for them though.

Irish Guitarist, you made a very interesting point. Presuming you also play guitar, you can appreciate the incredible skill required to playing a guitar to a good level. I'm certain you would not be bored to tears by listening to Jimmy Hendrix because you can appreciate the incredible still and timing required to play properly.

chopperbyrne wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS7hkwbKmBM

Look at the post chopperbyrne made that shows 2 street fighter players battle it out in fromt of thousands of people. Irish Guitarist, I can understand you are bored to tears watching games (perfectly fine), but what Daigo did in this video (playing as Ken, white character) at 0.25 takes as much skill, timing and reaction as any top guitar player. If you look at the life bars, Daigo has none left. Any successful hit by his oponent means he loses. To not get hit by the move the opponent uses, Diago had to tap "forward" with microsecond precision. Not once, but 14 times in succession on the ground and then another in the air, all at the same time asthinking of a combination of inputs that will beat the player when he lands.

Added to several other factors that I won't go into here for the sake of putting everyone to sleep, that kind of talent, in my opinion is just as good as any musician or any footballer.

Regarding soccer, I'm a massive fan just as I am a Street Fighter fan. To be a Premiership footballer takes dedication and plenty of skill to train your brain to allow your body to perform incredible feats with your body. To be a top gamer takes dedication and plenty of skill to train your brain to allow your body to perform incredible feats with your body.

It's just that gaming is not mainstream and that's the only reason one is "idolized" and one is a "waster".

Consider the people that are "idolized" nowadays outside of sport or "proper music"-

-"15-minutes of fame reality" TV stars,

- manufactured pop acts from apparently rigged shows that have no purpose other than to fill the wallets of the likes of Simon Cowell.

-Z-list celebrities that make their money by selling stories to the press about their break-up or their failed relationship or their pregnancy.

I have way more respect for a person who dedicates their time to be the very best at something, regardless of whether that is sport, film, industry or gaming.

Hayte · 16-11-2010 12:21PM

I don't get it. I can't understand how anyone can stand to watch someone else play a video game. It would bore me to tears. If they can earn a fortune from pressing some buttons good for them though.

Professional Starcraft is actually pretty amazing to watch and the kind of training and discipline that goes into the top level of play is insane. You could say:

How can anyone watch 22 blokes kick a ball around a field for 90 minutes?

But the spectacle is in the rivalry and the ingenuity in one side trying to get the upper hand using their skill and wits. Some of the tactics and feints you see the really good Starcraft players doing are logical, modern interpretations of the Art of War. I can think of a few top level players off the top of my head who are tactical geniuses.

Its no wonder the S Korean miltitary has their own Starcraft team even if the practice hours are severely limited.

krudler · 16-11-2010 12:25PM

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

I don't get it. I can't understand how anyone can stand to watch someone else play a video game. It would bore me to tears. If they can earn a fortune from pressing some buttons good for them though.

Thats like saying a guitarist makes music by just plucking some strings, theres a lot more to it than that

FutureGuy · 16-11-2010 12:48PM

The funny thing about the debate here is that the majority of Irish people would see anyone that posts on boards or other message boards as "wasters". Food for thought.

jester77 · 16-11-2010 12:57PM

Gaming is fun, something that lets you escape the real world. Going pro takes the fun out of it.

el oh el · 16-11-2010 01:10PM

Pro gamers = Nerds. Thats all, carry on.

Tar.Aldarion · 16-11-2010 01:12PM

That street fighter vid was epic

I find the more you are into a game the better it is, I get as excited as any football fan ever does for some fps games, and break out the popcorn to watch it :-P

Also enjoy a lot of rts like sc2 and warcraft III, very good to watch.

Duggy747 · 16-11-2010 01:15PM

I play L4D1 and other games most nights when I want to relax, I get funny looks from the housemates for it.......................who just spend the day on Facebook, watching movies, or sleeping until 10pm while somehow not finding time to pay the fùckin' ESB bill I keep telling them to pay while I'm off doing voluntary work Mon-Fri to keep myself busy and build up my experience.

I die a little inside when girls call people who play games as "sad" and "pathetic". Good grief.

As for pro-gamers............well, unless you're Asian you have no hope. :pac:

Paparazzo · 16-11-2010 01:25PM

strobe wrote: »

I have a simple litmus test for determining if I consider something to be a sport. Can you compete in it while eating a kebab and drinking a pint of beer? So boxing, pole vaulting, soccer, basketball, cycling.......these things are sports. Computer gaming, chess, bowling, darts......these things are games, sometimes very tough games, particularly when playing against good players, but they are not sports.

I've no problem with pro gamers but gaming is not a sport and they are not athletes. Trying to claim they are is just stupid.

I can eat a kebab doing any of those sports.

Cat Melodeon · 16-11-2010 01:38PM

I know someone who took redundancy from work and used the payout to fund herself gaming for nearly two years. Her boyfriend did the same. I don't know anything about gaming but still find that level of commitment pretty impressive. She's back working again now, but still plays - puts as much time into it as any decent amateur sportsperson does into training and competition.

I don't really see the difference between someone being a pro gamer and someone being a pro sportsperson. If you're good enough to make a living out of something that is a leisure pursuit for most other people, then why not? There's a huge airsoft following on boards, it's hardly the most thrilling spectator sport, it's not hugely physical, yet it's not looked down on in the same way as gaming is.

Maybe pro gaming just has to find a way to popularise itself among casual players, people who play those games for fun, people who know nothing about games beyond tetris. Most football fans/spectators don't play in leagues, most people who watch the Olympics don't run hurdles or throw weights about the place. Yet watching physical sports has huge appeal. Gaming has it's own version of exclusivity that it needs to lose if it wants pro gaming to become as respected as professional sports.

16-11-2010 01:48PM

Massive respect for pro gamers.. I haven't watched the videos in ages but check pistolero on Gears of War or any of the top Halo guys.. T-Squared, Walshy, the Ogre guys etc. It's insane how talented they are and the teamwork is stupidly good when you can hear commentary.

i57dwun4yb1pt8 · 16-11-2010 02:07PM

been playing quake 3 online since it first came out 12 years ago or so

benefits

1/ vastly increased reaction time ( handy when armageddon strikes and we are fighting to death over cans of beans in the future )
2/ vastly improved decision making skills - thinking on ones feet etc, - ( ie see point 1 )
3/ a dulled sense of empathy and a nastier killer instinct lack of mercy ( see point 1 above )

actually its all good training for killing and eating all the facebook w@nkers and pointless AH posters out there when the time comes .
all the pro gamers will be cracking open their heads and feasting on the goo inside .

that vid of the quake 3 guys is superb

its the way all sport will be played and all wars will be fought long in the future
( unless armageddon happens , then the pro gamers will rule the world )

its a win win

johnmcdnl · 16-11-2010 02:51PM

Charley Wooden Pirate wrote: »

I dont understand how people can find the time to play computer games tbh
I've got nothing against them and used to love playing the playstation but you have to spend hours upon hours at a game, and often end up staying up way too late. There's not a hope in hell I could do that now what with having to work and do general jobs that need doing every evening

but how does a young lad like wayne rooney or christiano rondaldo get so good at soccer though??? I'm assuming they just played soccer in their spare time and worked and did the 9-5 everyday and play soccer in the evening??? did rooney stay up too late to become such a good football player?? :rolleyes:

why is their such an attitude that people sitting in front of a computer screen playing non stop is so bad compared to the image that almost makes it seem like a good thing that young lads stay home from school to play soccer and then 1 day they make it to the premiership and everyone looks bad and talks about that players dedication to they sport:rolleyes::rolleyes:..
sur look at all the Brazilians - there almost proud that they just play soccer 24/7 and don't do anything else when their growing up and everyone envies them
- in SK they play starcraft 24/7 and everyone laughs at them and calls them wasters :rolleyes: bit of double standards if you ask me

cherryghost · 16-11-2010 03:49PM

And guess how many paid gamers are there in Ireland?

ScumLord · 16-11-2010 03:57PM

I'd class many strategy games as a sport in the same way professional chess is a sport. The bottom line is if your being paid to do something your a pro and that's all there is to it.

EL_Loco · 16-11-2010 04:10PM

initial question: what do I think of pro gamers?

dedicated to playing a computer game to be the best to make money because there is now a market and money around computer games. I respect their level of dedication, I don't see them as "wasters".

I'd be reluctant to draw direct comparisons to "active" sports, because as human beings, active sport is generally beneficial while sitting stationary for long periods of time isn't. Regardless of whether you're making money doing it. So I generally steer clear of trying to compare the two on those basis.

I play computer games, FPSs, not too may RTSs but can watch a match video and appreciate the skill involved.

It's like most sports, until you've played a bit yourself what you see from professionals doesn't really have meaning. My own example is snooker, used to bore me as a youngster until I started playing pool and realising what's an easy shot, what's a hard shot, and how many hard shots the pros were making successfully.

So IMO, you'll always have the non-gamer/non-computery people not having a notion what all the fuss is about, and just shrugging their shoulders and saying "wasters". I suppose it all boils down to if you're not actually a pro gamer that other areas of your life aren't suffering because of your over playing of computer games.

How do you feel about pro video gamers?

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