Freemasons?

squod wrote: »

http://www.irish-freemasons.org/Pages_GL/Grand%20Lodge_History.html


Because it's possible they talk politics to each other.

If you read the rest of that article, you'll see some did try to change politics, but were slapped on the wrist by Grand Lodge, reminding them never to discuss either religion, or politics :

notices were sent out reminding Lodges of the Grand Lodge Law forbidding quarrels of a religious or political nature to be brought within the doors of the Lodge

You guys are really looking for something that isn't there. I'd even beg you guys at this stage to put the CT away for an afternoon and go visit your local lodge for a tour. It's far from the evil places you're making it out to be.

The amount of charity work done is incredible, and is the motivation for the majority of people to join.

The one thing, for me, which stands out about the masons is the specific provision in Irish legislation. The 1920 Government of Ireland Act prohibits unlawful assembly, but it provides a special exemption for the Freemasons. Bear in mind this legislation was enacted during a time of uprising, independence and civil war.....

Why were the masons given such a special exemption if they were merely a charitable group?

PaintDoctor wrote: »

No I'm not, but then again, I'm sure you believe everything you link to on anti-Masonic sites is true. As opposed to say, someone like me, who's actually had, and given degrees. You get funnier, and funnier. Not only was your Albert Pike screw up hilarious, but you link David Icke as a source of wisdom.

Anyway, despite you many many mistakes being pointed out to you at length, you still go on linking to anti-masonic sites, still believe everything you read online is true, and still have done *absolutely no research on your own* apart from a bit of googling.

Why don't you join the masons, and see first hand what it's about? You're perfectly entitled to leave after your first meeting if you don't like it. Then, you'd actually have some real knowledge, and some real evidence rather then the made up nonsense you're putting out here. Don't want to join? Fine, that's perfectly normal for some people to, but go to an open day, or have a tour of one of the Lodges and meet real people and ask real questions - but be open to the answers. Your inability to accept that you may be wrong is the entire reason people here are frustrated with you - the only reason you're posting in this thread is to have others agree with you, and if they don't, you go off on a copying/pasting rant which ends up being quite tiresome.

PaintDoctor,

If freemasons know more about the inner workings of the freemasons than non-members, then surely it is reasonable to say that someone higher up the ladder has more knowledge than a 1st degree apprentice?

yekahs wrote: »

Still waiting to hear back. Apparently, it can take quite a bit of time to establish whether or not I'm a good guy, and then all the members of the lodge need to vote on it. The lodge generally only meets once a month, so it takes a month for each stage to happen. Hopefully I'll get the good or bad news within a month or so.

PaintDoctor wrote: »

We don't have some sort of intelligence network to investigate anyone. What happens is that the name of the person applying is called out in a meeting, and left with no decision made for the month. Then, if anyone knows anything bad about that person - like they have a criminal record, or if they're a bad person in society, then can be refused membership.

Like I've pointed out before, if you have any sort of wrong doing in your past, you're not allowed join. And if you are an existing member, and break any laws, or do anything to undermine the state you live in, or your workplace, you're out too.

How do they find out this information?


Criminal records can only be verified by the Gardai or the courts service.....(but it may take time to get this and other background info which probably explains why yekahs is still waiting! )

And what constitutes "any sort of wrongdoing"? Is it behaviour less than criminal?

paddymacsporran wrote: »

Freemasonry.

To join, you firstly need to have an interest in Freemasonry, and be proposed by a lodge member. This application goes in front of the committee, and then the members. If approved, you will be instructed by your proposer as to taking your first step. To become a freemason, you need to demonstrate and believe in the following criteria -

1 - Do you believe in god?
2 - Are you a moral, law-abiding citizen?
3 - Do you believe in helping others?

There's no hidden agenda that I have seen in my ten years or so as a mason. There are a series of rituals that are informative, interesting and entertaining that entrants go through.

There are indeed plenty of masonic symbols in Dublin, some of the best in Bewleys Hotel in Ballsbridge as it was a school built by freemasons. There are lodges in many towns across Ireland.

Freemasonry is open to men from all walks of life, and you stand equal to your fellow man inside the lodge. Freemasonry takes no note of religious divides, colour or creed, and should not be confused with Orange Lodges in Northern Ireland that are only open to protestants. Freemasonry in my opinion is criticised by those who do not know it or understand it, and sometimes that is unjust, unfair and usually wildly inaccurate.

(1) "Freemasonry is open to men from all walks of life"... except atheists

(2) "and you stand equal to your fellow man inside the lodge."....... so, why is there a hierarchical structure within the freemasons? Clearly, some freemasons have a higher rank than others.

(3) "Freemasonry takes no note of religious divides".... yet it doesn't allow atheists?

yekahs wrote: »

Eh? Skull and Bones aren't a masonic order?

What makes you so sure that your interpretation of symbols are correct? You have no first hand knowledge of masonry. Paintdoctor does. I'm going to take his word sooner than some anti-mason site that resorts to misquotes, and misinformation about "Captain Morgan" for the truth.

Likewise, it could be argued that someone at the very base of the freemasons' hierarchy does not have the same knowledge as a member who is further up that hierarchy...

PaintDoctor wrote: »

Of course.



Of course, but common sense is also used. You wouldn't keep someone out for an overdue library book, or anything like that, (1) but you would if they actually had a criminal record for anything at all. You'd also keep someone out if you heard through word of mouth if they were generally a bad egg - you know the sort, doesn't have a criminal record, but might slap the wife around, or is a bit of an ass with too much drink in them.

The objective in the excercise is to only allow people with good morals join.

Again, how do the masons get access to this info?

Richard tea wrote: »

''Again, how do the masons get access to this info?''

This sort of information can be obtained through a freemason that's a member of the Gardai or some other member of the courts. Its most likely illegal.

Okay let's imagine for a moment that a Garda runs a search on a person and finds them to have a criminal record. They then won't be allowed into the Freemasons. So this would mean dodgy people wouldn't get in.

Di0genes wrote: »

You do understand that the Simpsons episode is a parody of every daft Freemason conspiracy theory?

I do indeed, and I would say its quite accurate.


Daft? says you

That Simpson's episode is scarily accurate. I broke my ass laughing the whole way through it. Lots to catch up on in this thread since I was away!

How do we check if someone has a criminal record? Well, we can't really. We don't have access to any sort of database, but we have newspapers on Google, and of course, word of mouth around places where people live. It's not foolproof though, but has worked 99% of the time.

Why all the symbolism and big buildings if we just meet up for chats and coffee? Why not. The local GAA hall down by me is ridiculously big, has rooms and rooms full of crests and trophys. Same thing really. Its just fun more than anything to have a weird building that people ask about. Only thing is though that in Ireland and the UK we don't have such mental buildings. The American ones are off the wall. The one in Manhattan is beautiful, a 14 storey building, and their ballroom for functions is a copy of the Titanic's ballroom - open to the public for tours - highly recommend it. I guess a building has the potential to have Masonic symbolism in it if the Architect is a Mason, same way if the guy was into Georgian stuff, the building might have a georgian feel to it. Kinda like a Ferrari owner kitting out a room at home or his office with Ferrari stuff - if you're into something, most normal people have a tendancy to display that interest publically in some way, if it's a GAA shirt, a flash watch for someone who collects watches, or someone obsessed with cats having a house with little statues of cats/cats on plates/mugs with cats ...

The 'showing who built Israel' monument? Eh no. Masonry can only trace its roots to the 16th century or so, before that, no one has a clue where it came from. There's dozens of theories, but as far as we can tell, it sprung up around that time. By my reckoning, Israel was around long before that!

+1 Humanji. People are humans, and humans by their own nature are fragile. A person could be normal at 20, and a serial killer at 40.

PanchoVilla wrote: »

http://burningtaper.blogspot.com/2007/03/masonic-police-officer-convicted-of.html

Yet another police officer and a Mason is convicted of a serious criminal offence. It seems the Freemasons are somewhat lacking in their background checks these days.

Here's an interesting read from an anarchist forum regarding various Freemasons who have been convicted of pedophilia.

http://flag.blackened.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=75234&start=120

John Stalker hinted at Masonry links in the 80's. Highly respected Chief Constable from England appointed to investigate the RUC and the Security Agencies Shoot to Kill policy in NI in the early 80's.

He suffered a terrible campaign to discredit him that went to ridiculous lengths, use of cars, that type of nonsense.

He strongly hinted at Masonry links to the slur campaign. Now that was the mid 80's and there was other political issues at play, agency battles, NI politics etc. but I'd hope that type of stuff would be gone these days.

My suspicion is, it is like politics these days. It is harder to prove political favours these days because of legislation. Doesn't mean the nod, nod, wink, wink, scratch my back............. culture doesn't exist.

Pretty much, I'd have to look up the dates, but it only goes back a few centuries despite the rituals being about Solomon's time, etc. And you know what, it's a pain in the ass not knowing. Would be very very cool if we knew where/when it started and why.