Bailout megathread.

murphaph · 13-11-2010 05:23PM

This is what happens when you ramp up expenditure based on unsustainable tax revenues and then.....pop!

The Irish electorate voted for it though. Bertie Ahern never even tried to pretend he wasn't a populist twat. People lapped it up. We're buggered now though and must actually pay for it all, with real actual work!

The bailout will come with lots of strings attached. Despite what people think, it will not be a case of Ireland getting a cheque with instructions to FF to "find the cuts somewhere". The EU will have been looking at our expenditure quite closely for the past couple of years and will have a leaning towards what to cut.

I sincerely hope that FF (and the wider political class in Ireland) aren't able to fool the (largely clueless) Irish electorate and lead them to believe that "it was them horrible Germans what done it". People really need to LEARN from this catastrophe that an economy cannot be built on property. We seriously lost our way from the 90's when we were really on the right track. Wages should have been restrained. Never happened and thanks to populist policies deliberately aimed at boosting the construction sector coupled with reckless lending of many multiples of peoples salaries, we saw massive inflation in house prices.

I fear though that many irish people still haven't joined the dots and believe it is only a matter of time before a 3 bed semi D in Longford is again worth 300k...and do you know something...it will be and we'll be back here again.

murphaph · 13-11-2010 05:25PM

ei.sdraob wrote: »

anyone notice the pic in the article?

remember these?

The beggar in the newer picture is getting 800+ a month from the state though, which probably goes on heroin, hence his "need" to beg for more.

P. Breathnach · 13-11-2010 05:31PM

Nodin wrote: »

It would seem that - shock horror - our leaders may have been less than truthful.....

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1112/economy.html

Of course Cowan did say no application had been made, which is true....

What would you want? That we fly blind?

We have to recognise the possibility that we will need a bailout, while still doing our best to avoid it. So it makes perfect sense to consider what might be involved, and to ask the what-if questions. It comes under the heading of contingency planning, something that previous FF-led administrations eschewed, a failure that contributed greatly to our present predicament.

Poly · 13-11-2010 05:31PM

danbohan wrote: »

looks like its been confirmed on bbc news now , Pravda rte are still reporting nothing

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11750676

2nd story on the BBC TV news. Still nothing on RTE.

ei.sdraob · 13-11-2010 05:34PM

murphaph wrote: »

The beggar in the newer picture is getting 800+ a month from the state though, which probably goes on heroin, hence his "need" to beg for more.

Very true

our state (and most of it people) is like a heroin addict too, addicted to debt...

danbohan · 13-11-2010 05:37PM

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Very true

our state (and most of it people) is like a heroin addict too, addicted to debt...

id say their might be some cold turkey on its way though!

Victor · 13-11-2010 05:37PM

I think it looks like Reuters have over stated the position.

Ireland is in talks to receive emergency funding from the European Union

But it doesn't say when or how much.

and is likely to become the second euro zone country after Greece to obtain an international rescue, official sources said on Friday.

Nothing spectacular in that

One official said it was "very likely" that Ireland would get financial assistance from the EU facility set up after Greece obtained a 110 billion euro bailout in May.

But what was the question? Might the discussion have gone along the lines:

Journalist "If things deteriorate and if its needed, do you think its likely that Ireland would get financial assistance from the EU facility"
Official "Yes, I'm sure we'd get help. If fact I'd say its very likely that we'd get help."

RealityCheck · 13-11-2010 05:38PM

ei.sdraob wrote: »

anyone notice the pic in the article?

I notice that pic every time the BBC have an article on the Irish economy. Are they taking the piss? He must be earning royalties at this stage.

ei.sdraob · 13-11-2010 05:41PM

danbohan wrote: »

id say their might be some cold turkey on its way though!

I want free cheese!

mike65 · 13-11-2010 05:53PM

Every boom needs a bust first! and then we start all over again. That said this is going to be hanging over the macro finances of the state for so long we are going to be reminded of the collective folly with every budget.

Poly · 13-11-2010 06:00PM

Will the bailout mean that the bondholders will be burned?

Denerick · 13-11-2010 06:19PM

mike65 wrote: »

Every boom needs a bust first! and then we start all over again. That said this is going to be hanging over the macro finances of the state for so long we are going to be reminded of the collective folly with every budget.

Tell that to the Japenese. They've been waiting on a boom for the last 20 years. Or the Argentinians. They've been waiting on a boom for the last 80 years. Japan, which until recently was the second richest country in the world, and Argentina, which at one time was one of the richest per capita countries in the world, have suffered perrenial economic decline for generations. Prosperity is anything but inevitable.

mike65 · 13-11-2010 06:22PM

I think the second part of my reply addressed that issue. I'm not expecting a boom here ever again. It'll be decades of gradual recovery for the great majority. The homes we are in now will be, for most part, the homes we get carried out of.

MrMatisse · 13-11-2010 06:30PM

How on earth are we ever going to pay all this money back without reducing public services to third world levels.

PCros · 13-11-2010 06:32PM

The head of the International Monetary Fund, Dominique Strauss Kahn, has said Ireland can manage its economy on its own.

Speaking on the sidelines of an Asia Pacific summit in Japan, Mr Strauss Kahn said Ireland's difficulties had been principally caused by one bank and were very different from those of Greece whose economy faced deep-seated problems.

His comments came after Taoiseach Brian Cowen and the European Commission denied a report that preparations were under way to apply for emergency funding from the EU.

ardmacha · 13-11-2010 06:38PM

I want free cheese!

Free cheese would be nice, but we need something a bit more sohisticated than cheddar nowadays, perhaps some Bel Paese, or maybe Feta.

murphaph · 13-11-2010 06:50PM

ardmacha wrote: »

Free cheese would be nice, but we need something a bit more sohisticated than cheddar nowadays, perhaps some Bel Paese, or maybe Feta.

I think hard cheese is the best we can hope for!

LookingFor · 13-11-2010 07:08PM

Excuse my ignorance, but where are we at the moment wrt the bond markets?

The article claims that there's no hope there, but didn't yields just fall a lot yesterday? Was that not some hope?

Article seems a bit alarmist, but it wouldn't be the first time the BBC had some schadenfreude wrt Ireland.

LookingFor · 13-11-2010 07:15PM

Poly wrote: »

2nd story on the BBC TV news. Still nothing on RTE.

Didn't they report the same thing yesterday? They did on their TV bulletins anyway. Their correspondent talked about how he had learned that there were technical talks going on, dealing with what-if scenarios.

Scofflaw · 13-11-2010 07:16PM

LookingFor wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance, but where are we at the moment wrt the bond markets?

The article claims that there's no hope there, but didn't yields just fall a lot yesterday? Was that not some hope?

Article seems a bit alarmist, but it wouldn't be the first time the BBC had some schadenfreude wrt Ireland.

We spent the last decade shoving our bulging wallet in everybody's faces and shouting "loadsamoney!" - outlets like the BBC and the Economist wrote more than a few articles about our miracle economy, as did a lot of other European outlets. There's a lot of schadenfreude out there - and quite a bit of related anger, too:

On nous avait pourtant bien dit que les irlandais étaient bien plus malins, plus modernes que nous, pauvres franchouillards archaïques... Eux au moins méritaient la richesse, ils savaient prendre des risques. Ils ont risqué, nous ramassons les morceaux et paieront une part de la note.

Translated: We had been well said that the Irish were much smarter, more modern than us poor franchouillard archaic ...that they at least deserve the wealth they knew to take risks. They risked, we pick up the pieces and pay a share of the bill.

People are annoyed that they were admiring the beggar's horse.

cordially,
Scofflaw

ei.sdraob · 13-11-2010 07:20PM

Scofflaw wrote: »

People are annoyed that they were admiring the beggar's horse.

FF didn't help since they went around the place boasting how great we they are

Scofflaw · 13-11-2010 07:22PM

ei.sdraob wrote: »

FF didn't help since they went around the place boasting how great we they are

True - it probably also didn't help that Irish property investors were driving up prices all round the EU.

cordially,
Scofflaw

ei.sdraob · 13-11-2010 07:24PM

Scofflaw wrote: »

True - it probably also didn't help that Irish property investors were driving up prices all round the EU.

cordially,
Scofflaw

And outside the EU

LookingFor · 13-11-2010 07:39PM

Scofflaw wrote: »

People are annoyed that they were admiring the beggar's horse.

If it weren't for those pesky banks they arguably would still have something to admire $:\$

efb · 13-11-2010 07:44PM

I for one welcome our new Franco German overlords! Merkel & Sakozy- which ones Kang and which ones Kodos?

force eleven · 13-11-2010 07:53PM

So, it doesn't really matter now if the budget is passed or not. We're going (apparently) with cap in hand for a few billion to help us out anyway.

We may as well have an election ASAP, not that this will improve anything, it will at least give the masses a chance to vent their anger legitimately, at the ballot box.:mad:

charlemont · 13-11-2010 07:55PM

efb wrote: »

I for one welcome our new Franco German overlords! Merkel & Sakozy- which ones Kang and which ones Kodos?

They would do a better job than the clowns running Ireland now..

danbohan · 13-11-2010 07:58PM

charlemont wrote: »

They would do a better job than the clowns running Ireland now..

clowns running Ireland would do a better job

zootroid · 13-11-2010 08:03PM

ei.sdraob wrote: »

I am waiting for Cowen to do this

Excuse my ignorance, but what is going on in this picture?

Inquitus · 13-11-2010 08:12PM

zootroid wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance, but what is going on in this picture?

Neville Chamberlain is waving a Peace Treaty signed with Adolf Hitler shortly before he invaded Europe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_for_our_time

Bailout megathread.

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