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Who supports merkel?

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,702 ✭✭✭squod


    K-9 wrote: »
    So we haven't paid 9%.

    It's like blood out of a stone, bit like the markets. We haven't paid 9% and we wont!

    The whole point of the EU/IMF fund is we don't pay 8/9/10% on Bonds!

    Tell me where I said we did. Go on.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,305 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    squod wrote: »
    I lol'ed. Completely missing the point. They are in cahoots!

    They love the Irish... they're making huge profit from the Irish
    squod wrote:
    Never a truer word said. How many more times do people need to be reminded of this. 9% + folks.

    You replied to the middle, post saying somebody is profiting from the Irish.

    You then said 9%+ folks.

    I'll leave it to everybody else to make their own mind up. Somebody was profiting, allegedly, and considering we aren't selling bonds at 9%, have't gone to the markets since the Summer, and wont to February 2010, I'm not sure who these imaginary people are!

    The news may scream 8/9% at you, the Irish Govt. has not paid it.

    Even if we avail of the EU/IMF fund, it wont be 9%.

    So, once again, who is making 9% on bonds that aren't being sold, these imaginary bonds?

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,077 ✭✭✭Rebelheart


    Give me Merkel anyday, at least for a while until we have more efficiencies in our governance and end the nepotistic nature of Irish politics (e.g. Lenihan/O'Rourke family).

    Ireland can learn much more from the land of Porsche and Beethoven than it can learn from the land of Rover and Holst.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,305 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Rebelheart wrote: »
    Give me Merkel anyday, at least for a while until we have more efficiencies in our governance and end the nepotistic nature of Irish politics (e.g. Lenihan/O'Rourke family).

    Ireland can learn much more from the land of Porsche and Beethoven than it can learn from the land of Rover and Holst.

    Well Germany is an example of how to manage an economy and we are an example of how to mismanage it.

    They have basically devalued their currency by 15% since 2000 through wages, we trebled our costs!

    Unfortunately, we have learned nothing from the last couple of years!

    Many would prefer us to leave the Euro and devalue.

    Ireland has one huge advantage, the Euro. When the EU/IMF come in, we will have a relatively strong currency that doesn't have to devalue.

    So, when the pay and Welfare cuts come in, at least we don't have a devalued and worthless pay cheque to pay the mortgage with!

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,077 ✭✭✭Rebelheart


    K-9 wrote: »
    They have basically devalued their currency by 15% since 2000 through wages, we trebled our costs!

    Very interesting. Would you have any references (online or otherwise) that I could read about this development?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,702 ✭✭✭squod


    K-9 wrote: »
    You replied to the middle, post saying somebody is profiting from the Irish.

    And I quote.

    squod wrote: »
    lol

    I was, of course, commenting on a quote from the economist featured in the previous post. Who said................
    ]They love the Irish... they're making huge profit from the Irish

    To which you replied.......

    K-9 wrote: »
    So we haven't paid 9%.



    I also posted.......

    squod wrote: »
    While Ireland is fully funded until the middle of next year, the extra yield investors demand to hold Irish 10-year government bonds rather than German bunds, the euro-region’s benchmark security..............

    Investors should buy Irish bonds as prices overstate the likelihood of default, according to NCB Stockbrokers Ltd.




    Bloomberg

    You should of course ignore all of this and continue trolling.


    K-9 wrote: »
    !

    The news may scream 8/9% at you, the Irish Govt. has not paid it.

    lol


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    K-9 wrote: »

    The news may scream 8/9% at you, the Irish Govt. has not paid it.

    Even if we avail of the EU/IMF fund, it wont be 9%.

    So, once again, who is making 9% on bonds that aren't being sold, these imaginary bonds?

    We just don't know what the rate will be in Jan/Feb when the govt borrows again. Lets face it, it certainly looks bleak.

    Anything above 5% is bailout territory and god help us if this budget is not a real journey to fiscal obedience.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,305 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Rebelheart wrote: »
    Very interesting. Would you have any references (online or otherwise) that I could read about this development?

    It's a Finfacts article.

    You will allow me the time of the morning etc, and current second bottle of wine to dig it out?

    LOL

    I do love Finfacts, great articles on how we have wasted a great opportunity on the Euro. Our Multi Nationals have taken great advantage of the Euro, unfortunately indigenous industry not so much, very tied to the British.

    One of the great wastes of the boom/bust.We are far too reliant on Sterling, even still!

    We just seem reluctant to embrace the Euro, personally, property was far more important than actually developing markets in a single currency zone! It saddens me that multi nationals took great advantage from the Euro, not Irish industry.

    There comes a time we have to look at ourselves, not blame Brussels, London or whatever you are halving yourself!

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,305 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Ah, the wonders of Firefox:

    Has Germany profited from the Euro? - - Hans-Werner Sinn

    There is that perception that Germany has gained from the Euro, not true:
    The opposite occurred in Germany. The capital outflows made the domestic economy lose impetus and led to a slump in real estate prices. Consumer prices and wages rose only marginally, much more slowly than in the neighbouring countries. From 1995 to 2008, Germany underwent a real internal devaluation of 18% compared to its EU partners. This devaluation made Germany’s export surpluses possible. Such surpluses were a welcome substitute for the deteriorating domestic economic activity. But they were not an indicator of economic strength; instead, they were the result of an internal weakness brought about by years of bleeding. This is the crucial misinterpretation of those who assert that Germany was a winner of the euro.
    The German capital outflows were not the result of the euro alone. In the past few years, I have repeatedly raised the issue of Germany’s weaknesses as a location for business and industry, in particular its excessive regulation of the labour market and its welfare policies. These weaknesses were exacerbated after the introduction of the euro, since it created a single capital market in Europe and wiped out the hitherto large interest rate differences.
    Capital could now flow unhindered across borders, and apparently free of risk, in order to finance higher-yield projects abroad. That brought an enormous advantage to the capital importing countries. German investors profited as well, or so they thought at least. But the German workers, whose productivity and wage levels depend crucially on domestic capital investment, suffered painful losses that placed enormous strains on the German society.
    Now the European debt crisis shows that some of the promised yields will not materialise. Many German investors will never see their money again. This has led them to think again. Interest spreads are rising, and savings are being invested at home once more. A construction boom is just starting in Germany, and the country’s economic growth, after a long time, again tops the league in the Eurozone.
    Now the opposite of what happened in Europe’s south-western rim over the past fifteen years is occurring. While the former capital importers stagnate, Germany booms. However, wages and prices will, as a result, rise faster in Germany in the coming years. This will decrease Germany’s competitiveness and reduce the country’s export surpluses, with no need of prodding by the EU or the US Finance Minister.



    I have more faith in them stopping a boom than our bunch!

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,089 ✭✭✭ascanbe


    K-9 wrote: »
    Well Germany is an example of how to manage an economy and we are an example of how to mismanage it.

    They have basically devalued their currency by 15% since 2000 through wages, we trebled our costs!

    Unfortunately, we have learned nothing from the last couple of years!

    Many would prefer us to leave the Euro and devalue.

    Ireland has one huge advantage, the Euro. When the EU/IMF come in, we will have a relatively strong currency that doesn't have to devalue.

    So, when the pay and Welfare cuts come in, at least we don't have a devalued and worthless pay cheque to pay the mortgage with!

    You're not taking into account the ludicrous debt we've been saddled with as a result of the bank guarantee, Anglo-bailout/Nama heist.
    If anyone will lend to us, which is unlikely, we'll be borrowing money just to pay the interest on the preposterous, unmanageable debt we're in.
    Our fiscal problems in terms of public spending, would have been easily manageable, through austerity measures, if not for our corrupt goverment's decision to bail out their friends in Anglo, their developer friends and foreign bondholders instead of thinking about the country.
    As it stands, the austerity measures combined with the insane debt we find ourselves lumbered with, courtesy of the government, will ensure default/collapse.
    We simply cannot afford to continue on this path.
    At the very least, we need to face up to our creditors, that now includes the ECB courtesy of our government, and negotiate a payment with them we can actually manage; we should have told them to **** off in the first place, as Iceland did.
    I have no particular faith that FG/Labour have the guts or good sense to do so.
    But i do know that there's a better chance of them doing it than the corrupt bastards in our current govt, whose only concern is covering their tracks and their friends in Anglo, and who will drag this country over the cliff, before risking that any incriminating evidence is uncovered.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,305 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    ascanbe wrote: »
    You're not taking into account the ludicrous debt we've been saddled with as a result of the bank guarantee, Anglo-bailout/Nama heist.
    If anyone will lend to us, which is unlikely, we'll be borrowing money just to pay the interest on the preposterous, unmanageable debt we're in.
    Our fiscal problems in terms of public spending, would have been easily manageable, through austerity measures, if not for our corrupt goverment's decision to bail out their friends in Anglo, their developer friends and foreign bondholders instead of thinking about the country.
    As it stands, the austerity measures combined with the insane debt we find ourselves lumbered with, courtesy of the government, will ensure default/collapse.
    We simply cannot afford to continue on this path.
    At the very least, we need to face up to our creditors, that now includes the ECB courtesy of our government, and negotiate a payment with them we can actually manage; we should have told them to **** off in the first place, as Iceland did.
    I have no particular faith that FG/Labour have the guts or good sense to do so.
    But i do know that there's a better chance of them doing it than the corrupt bastards in our current govt, whose only concern is covering their tracks and their friends in Anglo, and who will drag this country over the cliff, before risking that any incriminating evidence is uncovered.

    Well,I haven't disagreed with your substantive point at all, just wondered is it politically achievable? Tbh, I don't think FG/Lab are any different to FF on the bondholder issue.

    This isn't even a voting issue. It's a simple question.

    Do FG/Labour support the bondholders's taking a hit? It is a simple question. People who have researched alternatives properly should be able to tell me easily.

    I want to be convinced, not a FG/Labour manifesto from promising more tax cuts to everybody.

    FFS They where the opposition for 10 years, unelected for 23 years, surely they seen all the pitfalls coming? 23 years to come up with a credible opposition policy and no 2007 wasn't credible. Bertie was a sicking Duck!

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,089 ✭✭✭ascanbe


    K-9 wrote: »
    Well,I haven't disagreed with your substantive point at all, just wondered is it politically achievable? Tbh, I don't think FG/Lab are any different to FF on the bondholder issue.

    This isn't even a voting issue. It's a simple question.

    Do FG/Labour support the bondholders's taking a hit? It is a simple question. People who have researched alternatives properly should be able to tell me easily.

    I want to be convinced, not a FG/Labour manifesto from promising more tax cuts to everybody.

    FFS They where the opposition for 10 years, unelected for 23 years, surely they seen all the pitfalls coming? 23 years to come up with a credible opposition policy and no 2007 wasn't credible. Bertie was a sicking Duck!

    Some in FG, Varadker i think, and in Labour, Richard Bruton, have at least made noises that suggest they'd be amenable to doing so.
    It won't even be a choice soon; it will have to done.
    If the country is truly to get back on its feet it will have to be done in conjunction with bringing the fraudsters in Anglo etc. to justice.
    No idea if they'll do that, though.
    The danger is that FF, through fear of others getting in and conducting a proper investigation into themselves and their friends in Anglo, will drag the country over the cliff in order to avoid such a scenario.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,305 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    ascanbe wrote: »
    Some in FG, Varadker i think, and in Labour, Richard Bruton, have at least made noises that suggest they'd be amenable to doing so.
    It won't even be a choice soon; it will have to done.
    If the country is truly to get back on its feet it will have to be done in conjunction with bringing the fraudsters in Anglo etc. to justice.
    No idea if they'll do that, though.
    The danger is that FF, through fear of others getting in and conducting a proper investigation into themselves and their friends in Anglo, will drag the country over the cliff in order to avoid such a scenario.

    I don't give a feck about FF.

    I want real alternatives.

    I don't want "the same" alternatives from 2007.

    I want real differences.

    Forget FF.

    What have FG/Labour have different?

    PS. I don't want Enda Kenny because, "don't ask me how we loose 40,000 Public Sector jobs."
    He is another Bertie!

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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