Is anybody here making money from farming?

deise toffee · 09-11-2010 09:13PM #1

Im milking roughly 75 cows,but what im paying out every month in costs is currently exceeding what im bringing in.bad times:(

Muckit · 09-11-2010 09:22PM

deise toffee wrote: »

Im milking roughly 75 cows,but what im paying out every month in costs is currently exceeding what im bringing in.bad times:(

I can sympathise with you deise toffee

Isn't it hard lines that a person like yourself could be milking and managing that many cows and not be able to make a half decent living. No wonder so many farmers are disillusioned.

If it were any other business, say for example a grocery shop, you wouldn't have to be as efficient or as big as TESCO to make a living, a small newsagent the size of a matchbox can turn a tidy profit.

In contrast, with farming, especially in Ireland you have to be at the top of your game just to make ANY return. There's something wrong somewhere

maidhc · 09-11-2010 09:37PM

Muckit wrote: »

In contrast, with farming, especially in Ireland you have to be at the top of your game just to make ANY return. There's something wrong somewhere

Everyone feels the same about their business to be honest. I'm a solicitor, and things are no better.

deise toffee · 09-11-2010 09:39PM

Muckit wrote: »

I can sympathise with you deise toffee

Isn't it hard lines that a person like yourself could be milking and managing that many cows and not be able to make a half decent living. No wonder so many farmers are disillusioned.

If it were any other business, say for example a grocery shop, you wouldn't have to be as efficient or as big as TESCO to make a living, a small newsagent the size of a matchbox can turn a tidy profit.

In contrast, with farming, especially in Ireland you have to be at the top of your game just to make ANY return. There's something wrong somewhere

Its hard going for sure,might have to consider selling white powder instead of white liquid;)

kay 9 · 09-11-2010 09:43PM

maidhc wrote: »

Everyone feels the same about their business to be honest. I'm a solicitor, and things are no better.

+1, I'm a plumber and it's hard enough to even keep food on the table at times compared to bygone years when trades were like gold:rolleyes:

deise toffee · 09-11-2010 09:54PM

maidhc wrote: »

Everyone feels the same about their business to be honest. I'm a solicitor, and things are no better.

Are things as bad in the legal world?isnt there always somebody to defend?letters to be sent.Not doubting you at all but:D

sh1tstirrer · 09-11-2010 09:56PM

kay 9 wrote: »

+1, I'm a plumber and it's hard enough to even keep food on the table at times compared to bygone years when trades were like gold:rolleyes:

My brother recently but in a solid fuel stove it was a big job as he had to put down new piping and installed a stainless steel cylinder. Labour alone cost over 2k. He rang about 10 plumbers before he got one that was interested in doing the job. They weren't worried about putting food on the table.

reilig · 09-11-2010 10:17PM

sh1tstirrer wrote: »

My brother recently but in a solid fuel stove it was a big job as he had to put down new piping and installed a stainless steel cylinder. Labour alone cost over 2k. He rang about 10 plumbers before he got one that was interested in doing the job. They weren't worried about putting food on the table.

That's a stark comparison to my next door neighbour who plumbed my house - 2000 square ft, soild fuel range, log gasifying boiler, 3 bathrooms, kitchen and utility sinks - all the usual. Total cost EUR3K. He was delighted to get the work.

maidhc · 09-11-2010 10:26PM

deise toffee wrote: »

Are things as bad in the legal world?isnt there always somebody to defend?letters to be sent.Not doubting you at all but:D

Massive PI insurance, rates, law society fees and vicious competition!

There has been a huge drop in property work obviously, family law (less money to divide) and even criminal (less buckos getting drunk on a sat night!).

Thankfully I am more a farmer than a solicitor, so when the computer/copier/heating and anything else breaks I get out the the vice grips and start ripping.

sh1tstirrer · 09-11-2010 10:42PM

reilig wrote: »

That's a stark comparison to my next door neighbour who plumbed my house - 2000 square ft, soild fuel range, log gasifying boiler, 3 bathrooms, kitchen and utility sinks - all the usual. Total cost EUR3K. He was delighted to get the work.

What part of the country are you? My brother is in north Cork.

whelan1 · 09-11-2010 11:02PM

deise toffee wrote: »

Im milking roughly 75 cows,but what im paying out every month in costs is currently exceeding what im bringing in.bad times:(

i think we are still paying for last years crap prices... bills are taking longer to clear.. i know the price of milk is up but so are the inputs.. also banks aren't helping... i have a meeting with bank man tomorrow:eek:

kay 9 · 09-11-2010 11:48PM

sh1tstirrer wrote: »

My brother recently but in a solid fuel stove it was a big job as he had to put down new piping and installed a stainless steel cylinder. Labour alone cost over 2k. He rang about 10 plumbers before he got one that was interested in doing the job. They weren't worried about putting food on the table.

Bit costly if I may say so, ye lot in Cavan must be loaded:D I'm doing one at the moment and I wont see a 1/3 of that:rolleyes: About 900-1200 is the run of mill depending on extras and changes. 2k, wish I was based up there. Buy the way alot of lads won't bother touching solid fuel as it's dangerous if done wrong. So if it's safe and done right, 2k is money well spent in my view. Better than gettin a cowboy to charge 1500 and the stove to go through the roof.

kay 9 · 09-11-2010 11:52PM

reilig wrote: »

That's a stark comparison to my next door neighbour who plumbed my house - 2000 square ft, soild fuel range, log gasifying boiler, 3 bathrooms, kitchen and utility sinks - all the usual. Total cost EUR3K. He was delighted to get the work.

I done same for 2k about 2 years ago;) Believe it or not there is more work in stoves than peeple realise. DOing a normal fit out like rads and sinks etc is fast to run piping, but usually stoves there is alot of opening and chasing and slow work hence the labour costs. Takes as long as to do a whole house almost.

ihatetractors · 10-11-2010 01:17AM

Went back in black to some safe degree there last Aug/Sept. When i was home at week end heard whispers of tradin the tractor (OH CHRIST I HOPE 2011 ISN'T A FLOOP) O_o

5live · 10-11-2010 09:39AM

I could sing the same song. The hangover of debt from last year was horrendous. A guy from a few miles away wont get an income till next may. He is living on cattle sales and any bit of money that is left after the co-op gets paid goes to the bank. There is always someone worse off. A bit off thread i know but, does anybody know what would happen if our banks were refused funding from EU central bank? No overdrafts or loans? I would be in deep deep sh1t until this time next year. I could manage then but now....:eek:

candor · 10-11-2010 10:24AM

Is it a case that there are loans to be paid also? Morgage etc? Loans are a neccessary evil but I try to avoid as much as I can.

whelan1 · 10-11-2010 10:28AM

i think it all goes back to the fwms ... that was the start of all this financial woe

candor · 10-11-2010 10:36AM

whelan1 wrote: »

i think it all goes back to the fwms ... that was the start of all this financial woe

Certainly added a lot of expense to the whole thing, there was never value for money with prices adjusted according to grant levels etc.

Pharaoh1 · 10-11-2010 10:42AM

Anyone go to those Teagasc/Leader/Options meetings recently. I was at one this week and a Teagasc guy gave all sorts of data on improved gross margins in 2010 etc..
No mention of the word profit at all and I mean proper profit after all charges are taken into account and a labour charge. Basically your accounting profit.
In fairness the meeting had plenty of positives to do with supports for on farm business/education etc...

Bottom line is for the majority the way to make money from farming is to have a big SFP and make sure not to lose it.
Also I don't think the income shock from the loss of REPS for many is fully appreciated.

pakalasa · 10-11-2010 10:53AM

5live wrote: »

...... A bit off thread i know but, does anybody know what would happen if our banks were refused funding from EU central bank? No overdrafts or loans? I would be in deep deep sh1t until this time next year. I could manage then but now....:eek:

I'm no expert but I find it hard to believe that banks would refuse loans to Dairy farmers to carry them over the winter, untill the milk starts flowing again. Provided you have yor house in order - doing all the sensible things, you should have no worries.
All the economists say it - the only way out of this current recession is to export our way out. That makes farming a lot more imporatant than what it was during the mad days of the Celtic Tiger.

whelan1 · 10-11-2010 12:08PM

pakalasa wrote: »

I'm no expert but I find it hard to believe that banks would refuse loans to Dairy farmers to carry them over the winter, untill the milk starts flowing again. Provided you have yor house in order - doing all the sensible things, you should have no worries.
All the economists say it - the only way out of this current recession is to export our way out. That makes farming a lot more imporatant than what it was during the mad days of the Celtic Tiger.

just back from bank... its a no go area, come back in 6 months :mad::mad:wont give me a penny:cool:

pakalasa · 10-11-2010 01:18PM

They wont even give you a loan to tie you over. :eek:

Do you have a lot of debt as things stand - sorry for asking, but trying to make sense of all this?

Tora Bora · 10-11-2010 01:34PM

whelan1 wrote: »

just back from bank... its a no go area, come back in 6 months :mad::mad:wont give me a penny:cool:

Holey moley, Whealan, with amount of time you spend talking to some one or other in the bank(s), I'm surprised any cow gets milked:eek:
If I was one of your cows, I'd be down to one functioning quarter

whelan1 · 10-11-2010 01:46PM

pakalasa wrote: »

They wont even give you a loan to tie you over. :eek:

Do you have a lot of debt as things stand - sorry for asking, but trying to make sense of all this?

i dont have massive debts but need money to buy in some cows/heifers as i lost alot last year - not my fault- i have the sheds /quota/land to milk 20 more cows and he said no...i have never missed a payment ever , said to come back in 6 months :eek: pretty pissed off....

whelan1 · 10-11-2010 01:47PM

Tora Bora wrote: »

Holey moley, Whealan, with amount of time you spend talking to some one or other in the bank(s), I'm surprised any cow gets milked:eek:
If I was one of your cows, I'd be down to one functioning quarter

:D i am of the mind that if i could just sort the financial end of things out before they go crazy i am better off, bank man doesnt see it that way unfortunately

DagneyTaggart · 10-11-2010 01:55PM

Retailers, processors, factories, tradesmen, feed suppliers and the odd farmer and probably not far off that order, too.

The odd farmer being the farmer who is srewdest with feed is where I'd place my bets.

whelan1 · 10-11-2010 02:26PM

Tora Bora wrote: »

Holey moley, Whealan, with amount of time you spend talking to some one or other in the bank(s), I'm surprised any cow gets milked:eek:
If I was one of your cows, I'd be down to one functioning quarter

well did a days work before i saw bankman... milked cows at 6 , dropped kids to school , one of the kids has to be in the hospital every morning this week at 9.30:mad: then dropped him to school and off to bank! relaxing now before i get them from school and do the rest of my work...dont think i will be ringing bankman again for a while... to top it off the bloody drivers door of my car wont close and ended up driving home holding on to it to stop it opening:eek:

snowman707 · 10-11-2010 04:17PM

2010 hasn't been too bad to us (SO far!!!)

an expensive spring due to late growth was compensated by a good back end

milk and sheep returns were well up

we were lucky we bought fertilizer when it was at it's lowest price

HOWEVER !! we overspent a capital investment by about €7k of our original estimate, and certain family circumstances forced another €15k on to our drawings

The answer to OP's query is

No loans

no overdraft

NO MONEY !!!!

we will approach 2011 with caution
and are planning for cuts in headage ,forestry premiium, reps along with added costs like increased taxation, college fees, dearer fuel(diesel) and fertilizer , if milk and sheep price hold we will get by if not it is on to plan B.

(plan B isn't drawn up yet:eek:)

F.D · 10-11-2010 05:29PM

deise toffee wrote: »

Im milking roughly 75 cows,but what im paying out every month in costs is currently exceeding what im bringing in.bad times:(

Don't want to pry into your business to much but would some of the costs be borrowings/loan repayments? if not i'd hate to see how anybody can make a living if your loan free

bbam · 10-11-2010 05:45PM

We're on the small side of the farmng scale and up to last year we were loosing money before SFP, we broke even then and this year we'll probably be in the black for the first time in years...
Like many small farms our problem was ploughing on and not actually keeping any books/records at all..

I was discussing with a farming friend a potential change in type of farming and he said I was mad that it wouldn't make money... when I enquired how he was doing his reply.... "don't know and I'd be afraid to count it up"

whelan1 · 10-11-2010 06:23PM

snowman707 wrote: »

2010 hasn't been too bad to us (SO far!!!)

an expensive spring due to late growth was compensated by a good back end

milk and sheep returns were well up

we were lucky we bought fertilizer when it was at it's lowest price

HOWEVER !! we overspent a capital investment by about €7k of our original estimate, and certain family circumstances forced another €15k on to our drawings

The answer to OP's query is

No loans

no overdraft

NO MONEY !!!!

we will approach 2011 with caution
and are planning for cuts in headage ,forestry premiium, reps along with added costs like increased taxation, college fees, dearer fuel(diesel) and fertilizer , if milk and sheep price hold we will get by if not it is on to plan B.

(plan B isn't drawn up yet:eek:)

how long did it take you to be loan free ?

Is anybody here making money from farming?

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