Wearing of the Poppy! Should Irish citizens wear it?

Fratton Fred · 09-11-2010 03:50PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

so nazi soldiers were also in the clear because they were just following orders yea?

That is not a relevant comparison. German soldiers who dies and fought in WWII are just as deserving as any other of being remembered. The vast majority of them were conscripts too.

Wile E. Coyote wrote: »

I think your going slightly off topic. This thread is not about slagging off the British for wearing the poppy. The question was, should Irish citizens wear a symbol of respect towards the men who fought and killed Irish men to keep us under British rule. The simple answer is no. Similarly I wouldn't expect any British person to wear a symbol of respect towards Irish men who fought and killed British men to gain us our independance.

Then why are we cherry picking actions of the British army? why did Nodin not also include the first gulf war, or the peace keeping missions in Sierra Leone, Kosovo and the old Yugoslavia?

gent9662 · 09-11-2010 03:50PM

Nodin wrote: »

This is the thing with the poppy. Its not confined to veterans of what might be called 'just' wars, though they always emphasise WW1 and 2.. You're essentially backing the British Army, and what its done in the name of empire and expediency.

If your great granfather fought and died for something he believed in strongly, do you not think that by wearing the poppy that you remember the sacrifice that he made to keep your arse free and speaking english instead of German?

Wearing the poppy is a way of remembering all those men and women regardless of their race, nationality, religion etc etc. Irish men fought and died beside English, Welsh, Scots and Canadians. I think Irish Citizens should be proud to wear it. That's just my opinion.

KeithAFC · 09-11-2010 03:52PM

They should perhaps not sell the poppies down south at all as it seems the majority reject it. So i think it should just be a UK thing. It is our thing.

Nodin · 09-11-2010 03:53PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Then why are we cherry picking actions of the British army? why did Nodin not also include the first gulf war, or the peace keeping missions in Sierra Leone, Kosovo and the old Yugoslavia?

You're the one cherry picking. The poppy supports the British Army, full stop.

steddyeddy · 09-11-2010 03:53PM

That is not a relevant comparison. German soldiers who dies and fought in WWII are just as deserving as any other of being remembered. The vast majority of them were conscripts too.

Indeed it is relevant a defense of just following orders and not making foreign policy was used by nazi war criminals at various levels. You made the same defense.

Nodin · 09-11-2010 03:54PM

dclane wrote: »

If your great granfather fought and died for something he believed in strongly, do you not think that by wearing the poppy that you remember the sacrifice that he made to keep your arse free and speaking english instead of German?

Wearing the poppy is a way of remembering all those men and women regardless of their race, nationality, religion etc etc. Irish men fought and died beside English, Welsh, Scots and Canadians. I think Irish Citizens should be proud to wear it. That's just my opinion.

Ahh yes, its all about fighting the Germans, not beating the head off some Kenyan or Burman who won't kowtow towards his 'betters'.....

steddyeddy · 09-11-2010 03:55PM

dclane wrote: »

If your great granfather fought and died for something he believed in strongly, do you not think that by wearing the poppy that you remember the sacrifice that he made to keep your arse free and speaking english instead of German?

Wearing the poppy is a way of remembering all those men and women regardless of their race, nationality, religion etc etc. Irish men fought and died beside English, Welsh, Scots and Canadians. I think Irish Citizens should be proud to wear it. That's just my opinion.

well people would say that we should remember people who died so I could be right speak irish

Fratton Fred · 09-11-2010 04:01PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Indeed it is relevant a defense of just following orders and not making foreign policy was used by nazi war criminals at various levels. You made the same defense.

so the entire German army was tried as war criminals at the end of WWII?

Stupid analogy tbh.

The Waltzing Consumer · 09-11-2010 04:08PM

I don't get why people are pretty realistic and sensible, in my view, when it comes to the Easter Lily. It does not matter when people who support it evoke memories of Irish men fighting for freedom, they are skeptical of where the money goes and what it truly represents. So overall, that is a pretty sensible rational way of thinking to me.

But when it comes to the Poppy, people have a romanticised version of WWI and WWII, they ignore the obvious other operations of British Army, past and present. They don't seem to care where the money goes or what the poppy represents. It seems the romanticised view of the great wars is the only factor when it comes to support the poppy. Not rational or sensible.

Two symbols, two very different attitudes.

aDeener · 09-11-2010 04:14PM

Dudess wrote: »

The British Army, while I detest elements of it, is not on a par with RIRA imo.

both have deliberately murdered innocent people

Noffles · 09-11-2010 04:14PM

Ah sure wear them, they look a dman site better than shamrocks...

steddyeddy · 09-11-2010 04:21PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

so the entire German army was tried as war criminals at the end of WWII?

Stupid analogy tbh.

things that you dont get dont make them stupid

Rebelheart · 09-11-2010 05:08PM

Nodin wrote: »

The fact is that buying a poppy supports those who were involved in the war of aggression in Iraq, those who suppressed the nationalist population in NI, who suppressed the independence movements in India, Kenya, Aden and elsewhere. It's thus supporting the instrument of empire and imperialism.

Very well said, Nodin.

charlemont · 09-11-2010 05:11PM

some of my family died in the first world war, but there is no way id wear the poppy..Iv nothing against anyone who does though..

Rebelheart · 09-11-2010 05:11PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I look forward to easter and slagging off your lot for wearing a Lilly.

How British people like you can equate Irish people fighting for Irish freedom in this small country with British people fighting to conquer and secure lands for Britain far from Britain is a testament to how twisted British nationalism has now become.

strobe · 09-11-2010 05:16PM

Dudess wrote: »

You could perhaps imbue it with your own meaning though? As in, as a mark of respect for all of those who suffered and died?

Now that's just an odd one. Why not sellotape a daisy from your garden to your jacket and imbue that with your own meaning instead so, as in, as a mark of respect for all of those who suffered and died?

Fratton Fred · 09-11-2010 05:20PM

Rebelheart wrote: »

How British people like you can equate Irish people fighting for Irish freedom in this small country with British people fighting to conquer and secure lands for Britain far from Britain is a testament to how twisted British nationalism has now become.

That fight included murdering innocent people, extortion, torture, drug dealing..... or is that ok because they were in your side?

There is no difference between the poppy and the Easter Lilly.

Rebelheart · 09-11-2010 05:21PM

Dudess wrote: »

You could perhaps imbue it with your own meaning though? As in, as a mark of respect for all of those who suffered and died?

Considering the British red poppy is meant to commemorate only those who died on behalf of British/British Commonwealth forces, your above post is based on ignorance, Dudess.

If somebody really wanted to give their own 'mark of respect' they certainly wouldn't use such a nationalistic jingoistic symbol as the red poppy. What next, imbuing the swastika with "your own meaning"? It's far more sensible to create a new symbol, or adopt the white poppy or something else.

Ald · 09-11-2010 05:22PM

some of my family died in the first world war, but there is no way id wear the poppy..Iv nothing against anyone who does though..

I've family that fought for the Brits in India in the '40's and a relative that fought in the Brit army during the '90's. Does not change my view of the way they operate today. It's disgraceful.

I've also heard stories of British soldiers tossing relatives out of their death beds in Kilkenny to search under them for any connections with IRA.

I always wonder if the Irish of WW2 had the option to fight for say the Brits or Americans and it was the same either way how many would have chosen the American army. I'm pretty sure it would have been a lot!

We must remember to separate the Irish that fought with the Brits for a cause and the Brits that operate today. The poppy muddles the two and takes advantage of the nostalgia people feel for WW2.

Don't forget Irish fought on the German side too and they must not be forgotten either.

Rebelheart · 09-11-2010 05:27PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

That fight included murdering innocent people, extortion, torture, drug dealing..... or is that ok because they were in your side?

There is no difference between the poppy and the Easter Lilly.

Drug dealing? Are you getting mixed up between the British Opium Wars and the Easter Rising, Fratton? And if you really, really, really believe that what the native Irish forces of resistance did in resisting the British colonial occupation of this country, our country, since 1603 is on a par with what your British state did while asserting its rule over foreign countries, including Ireland, then a mere Boards.ie discussion (or even 20 of them) will not solve your problems with Ireland, with Irish culture, with Irish independence and with the Irish people.

Sharkey 10 · 09-11-2010 05:35PM

Some of you might be interested to know that giles is on sky and hes not wearing a poppy , what a rebel.

steddyeddy · 09-11-2010 05:47PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

That fight included murdering innocent people, extortion, torture, drug dealing..... or is that ok because they were in your side?

There is no difference between the poppy and the Easter Lilly.

The british army used drug dealing (flooding china with opium for example), extortion (the theft of the lands, wealth of countless indiginous peoples), murdering innocent people (those who stood against the said theft of lands) torture( look up pitch capping) not to mention slavery, and legalised piracy is that ok because they were on your side?

The difference between a rebellion and colonialism and all that goes with it is that rebellion often achieves freedom while colonialism denies it.

storm2811 · 09-11-2010 06:16PM

Does the Easter lily support the RIRA?
If not, then there's a massive difference between it and the poppy imo.

Snickers Man · 09-11-2010 06:16PM

Has anybody actually seen anybody wear a poppy in Ireland this year?

Apart from Johnny Giles' guests on his Late Late tribute, who were all British anyway, I haven't seen a single one on the streets of Dublin.

I think many people here are talking a good game.

Fratton Fred · 09-11-2010 06:39PM

Rebelheart wrote: »

Considering the British red poppy is meant to commemorate only those who died on behalf of British/British Commonwealth forces, your above post is based on ignorance, Dudess.

If somebody really wanted to give their own 'mark of respect' they certainly wouldn't use such a nationalistic jingoistic symbol as the red poppy. What next, imbuing the swastika with "your own meaning"? It's far more sensible to create a new symbol, or adopt the white poppy or something else.

how does that differ from the Easter Lilly then?

Nodin · 09-11-2010 06:47PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

That fight included murdering innocent people, extortion, torture, drug dealing..... .

Just desparate for somebody to bite on that, aren't you?

I suppose its a change from the '...you'd be speaking German now' refrain...

Donkey Oaty · 09-11-2010 06:50PM

storm2811 wrote: »

Does the Easter lily support the RIRA?
If not, then there's a massive difference between it and the poppy imo.

The money goes to whichever organisation is selling it, such as Sinn Féin.

By the twisted logic of some of the comments on this thread, wearing an Easter lily must mean you support paedophiles.

chessman · 09-11-2010 06:52PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes, we are essentially British and should be grateful for all they have done for us.

are you off your rocker??????????:p

LumpyMonkey · 09-11-2010 06:59PM

I wear a poppy every year. I generally give €50 for my poppy when I can find one, not that I can afford it, but I feel I owe it.
My father (who was Irish) served in WW2, with a Canadian regiment. He survived the D-Day landings, lost two brothers, went deaf in one ear, cried when asked about it, and had nightmares till the day he died. He volunteered for all of that.

Now, some facts on the poppies sold in Ireland . . . the monies collected from the Irish Poppy Appeal go only to ex-service personnel based in and from the Republic of Ireland and recipients are vetted before they receive help. No funds have gone or currently go to any British servicemen who served in Northern Ireland during the troubles, although some assistance funds do go the Irish Army servicemen who served on border and security duty during the troubles.

I believe that we all owe a debt of gratitude to those who put themselves in harms way, especially when done for a cause greater than their own nation (e.g. Irish men serving to fight for the freedom of Europe in WW2).

Yes, there should be a Europe-wide symbol for this, and there should be more recognition in Ireland, but the poppy is what we have, so I wear it with pride rather than complain about it.

LumpyMonkey · 09-11-2010 07:03PM

Rebelheart wrote: »

Considering the British red poppy is meant to commemorate only those who died on behalf of British/British Commonwealth forces, your above post is based on ignorance, Dudess.

If somebody really wanted to give their own 'mark of respect' they certainly wouldn't use such a nationalistic jingoistic symbol as the red poppy. What next, imbuing the swastika with "your own meaning"? It's far more sensible to create a new symbol, or adopt the white poppy or something else.

Not true, the poppies sold in Ireland are to help Irish servicemen and their families. Contact the Legion office in Dublin and they'll confirm it. If you don't believe them, contact their auditors.

Wearing of the Poppy! Should Irish citizens wear it?

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