Should pedigree dog breeding be banned?

Magenta · 04-11-2010 08:31PM

shinikins wrote: »

I did read it, what you said was

I was just pointing out that Black Cockers are affected far more. The impression i got from your post was that Golden/Red cockers are affected far more than any other dog, which is not true. Your welcome

If I said "Kylie Minogue is an excellent example of an Australian pop singer" would you start trying to pick arguments and say "Oh well Magenta you know there are other Australian pop singers too"? :rolleyes:

What I said was in no way wrong, you were just trying to pick faults and be right. Can you chill out and drop it please.

shinikins · 04-11-2010 11:39PM

Magenta wrote: »

If I said "Kylie Minogue is an excellent example of an Australian pop singer" would you start trying to pick arguments and say "Oh well Magenta you know there are other Australian pop singers too"? :rolleyes:

What I said was in no way wrong, you were just trying to pick faults and be right. Can you chill out and drop it please.

What you said is not wrong, but its not a good indication of Sudden Onset Rage Syndrome either, which is why i pointed it out. Its not a matter of picking faults and being right. This is a forum, not everone is going to agree with your view!

And i'm very chill:D

Discodog · 05-11-2010 12:22AM

KylieWyley wrote: »

I have healthy pedigree German Shepherd and Boxer dogs.

There is now a new demand for proper Old Style GDS's with straight backs rather than the insane sloping back & "frog" rear legs of the current GSD's.
Because we have all got used to the current one an Old Style GSD looks amazing - much more Wolf like.

Newer Boxer's are very prone to heart problems where as the old Boxers were much healthier - I know because I have had 4 in a row !

Magenta · 06-11-2010 12:10PM

shinikins wrote: »

What you said is not wrong, but its not a good indication of Sudden Onset Rage Syndrome either, which is why i pointed it out. Its not a matter of picking faults and being right. This is a forum, not everone is going to agree with your view!

And i'm very chill:D

More pointless condescending and arguing. It's because of responses like yours that this thread was not posted in Animals & Pet Issues.

aDeener · 06-11-2010 12:50PM

ScumLord wrote: »

I have a problem with the entire pedigree dog breeding industry ti's cruel and wrong. If you where to translate it into human terms it simply wouldn't be tolerated because no one would ever think it was right to force dwarfs or albinos to reproduce solely amongst themselves simply because you like the look of them.

Many of these animals are picking up horrible mutations and deformities, some traits like the Rhodesian Ridgebacks ridge are actually a sign something is seriously wrong with the dog yet Rhodesian pups that don't feature the deformity are routinely put down at birth.

Many of the breeds of dog where breed for a specific purpose and the fact they where working dogs promoted the breeding of healthy animals but now they're simply breed for looks and the health is becoming less and less of concern. Many working breeds are now so deformed they are useless at the tasks they where breed for.

Miniature dogs are the worst example of this IMO, these are animals that simply couldn't survive on their own and many suffer from Syringomyelia where the skull is too small for their brain, in humans it's described as one of the most painful aliments known to man.

Outside of working dogs there should be maybe one or two breeds, mainly a large and medium sized dog. After everything the species has done for us they deserve to have the over all health of the species considered.

*I would have put this in the pets forum but it doesn't strike me as a place for debate and would be completely one sided.

EDIT: Probably should have thought of putting a pole on this.

sure if you were to translate anything animal wise into human terms it would not be tolerated.

Noreen1 · 06-11-2010 05:15PM

I wouldn't agree with banning pedigree dog breeding completely - but I would love to see effective regulation that would prevent deformities being deliberately bred into a dog.(or any other animal, for that matter!):mad:

I would also like to see legislation that would prevent closely related dogs from being "mated". It would help to prevent a lot of unnecessary suffering, IMO.

Noreen

robanne · 24-02-2011 04:51PM

I bought a Vizsla last year...beautiful dog. His grandfather won Crufts last year. Found out that my dogs father is one of 625 pups...Breed is now ruined and its going to be very hard for genetic problems to not show up eventually.

Its wrong, wrong wrong

getz · 24-02-2011 05:02PM

Noreen1 wrote: »

I wouldn't agree with banning pedigree dog breeding completely - but I would love to see effective regulation that would prevent deformities being deliberately bred into a dog.(or any other animal, for that matter!):mad:

I would also like to see legislation that would prevent closely related dogs from being "mated". It would help to prevent a lot of unnecessary suffering, IMO.

Noreen

in the UK we have system in place,by the kennel club,its called the accredited breeder scheme,i have just got my new bulldog puppy from a accredited breeder,

MistyCheese · 24-02-2011 05:19PM

You can't spell controversy without a v.

bodice ripper · 24-02-2011 05:29PM

Does it seem to anyone else that like 10+ years ago if you mentioned dogs the response was "yeah, I love dogs, I have one meself", but now its "yeah I have a staffie, amazing dogs staffies."

when did Ireland get too good for mongrels?

mgbgt1978 · 24-02-2011 05:43PM

robanne wrote: »

I bought a Vizsla last year...

I bought one of them last year during the World Cup....couldn't get a note out of it.....

getz · 24-02-2011 05:47PM

this is the web site of a accredited breeder, www.ironore-bulldogs.com url] mine is the little one with the black face.

sensibleken · 24-02-2011 05:50PM

I wouldnt agree with banning pedegree dogs all together. There are plenty of dog breeders out there that are completely ethical and if we didnt have the breeders breeds like the wolfhound would disapear

Loads of legislation is needed. My dog is a rescue greyhound and what goes on in that industry is disgusting with an estimated 10,000 dogs killed every year because they are surplus to requirements. There is some very good legislation being drawn up at the moment to tackle the more abhorant activities in dog breeding and also protect the reputation of those ethical breeders

ScumLord · 24-02-2011 05:53PM

getz wrote: »

in the UK we have system in place,by the kennel club,its called the accredited breeder scheme,i have just got my new bulldog puppy from a accredited breeder,

The main focus of groups against pedigree breeding is against the royal kennel club in the UK as they set the standards that encourage inbreeding and the destruction of dogs that don't met the standard.

The kennel club in the UK is the group causing the problem and have been since the standards where set by them over a hundred years ago.

getz · 24-02-2011 06:07PM

ScumLord wrote: »

The main focus of groups against pedigree breeding is against the royal kennel club in the UK as they set the standards that encourage inbreeding and the destruction of dogs that don't met the standard.

The kennel club in the UK is the group causing the problem and have been since the standards where set by them over a hundred years ago.

the kennel club do not encourage inbreeding,the standards are set up,but it is the breeders who need to be monitored,this is why the accredited breeder scheme was set up,

Cherry Blossom · 24-02-2011 07:18PM

robanne wrote: »

I bought a Vizsla last year...beautiful dog. His grandfather won Crufts last year. Found out that my dogs father is one of 625 pups...Breed is now ruined and its going to be very hard for genetic problems to not show up eventually.

Its wrong, wrong wrong

Can you please explain what you mean by one of 625 pups? I don't really understand what you mean, do you mean that your dog has 624 doggie aunts and uncles on the sires side? How does this mean the breed is ruined? Only the elite few from this 624 should have been bred from, papers do not mean reputable breeder. Before you got your pup you should have ensured that the dam and sire were unrelated and both were proven champions in their own right either in the show ring, at working trials or a combination of both. Buyers are ultimately the problem, they get carried away with fancy titles and don't bother to do their research properly because the price is right (or so they think) and end up fueling these puppy farmers and back yard breeders who don't have the best interests of the dog at heart or haven't a feckin clue what they are doing themselves, there are still plenty of other lines within the Vizsla breed which as a whole is one of the most healthy. There are still plenty of healthy lines within all breeds but you have to be bothered to look for them and to pay the cost of all the health-testing and planning that keeps them that way.

Chinasea · 24-02-2011 07:49PM

Yea but we also have way so many unwanted non pedigree dogs. There are still too many people not bothering to get their dogs neutered and the rest of us are supposed to pick up their negligence and look after their discarded or unwanted pets.

I say Trap Neuter Spay the irresponsible people who still in this day don't bother neutering their animals and then dump them for the rest of us to pick up and look after...Have you been to the likes of Puck Fair?? It is so sad.

AckwelFoley · 24-02-2011 08:01PM

Hello. My name is corkie. I am a pedigree King charles.

I dont have an account here on boards so, i hacked this account to inform you of my feelings.

I am a pedigree, i am happy to be alive and i am well cared for, except for the odd times my owner gets drunk and his missus isnt around, he tends to get horney and i tend to get tired from running around in circles until he gets tired and stops chasing me.

BTW, im now giving you the claw.. -its the dog version of the finger

aDeener · 24-02-2011 08:27PM

no it shouldn't be banned

ScumLord · 24-02-2011 08:32PM

getz wrote: »

the kennel club do not encourage inbreeding,

Yes they do, the standards are such that the traits they have set out in the standards can mostly be achieved through inbreeding. While they may not say "inbreed that bitch" the standards they've set encourage such breeding practices.

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

Only the elite few from this 624 should have been bred from,

What's elite in your definition? Strongest or the fluffiest tail? Working dog breeds are breed to be strong and healthy unless they become popular like the German Shepard and you see dogs with terrible skeletal structures.

RuneKnight3 · 24-02-2011 08:39PM

I'm stateside (We are all around you, coming to your country, taking your jobs, breeding with your women!), and I have to agree with the banning or stringent legislation of pure bred animals. Its not so much that it is cruel or inhumane to have pure breeding, breeds of animals develop in nature based on Darwinian principles. However, there are such breeds of animal that have been pure bred for so long as to be to the detriment of the breed; and not just those moral panics about pitbulls and dobermans being 'vicious'. I think we can all agree that if someone doesn't want a vicious animal, one shouldn't seek out a breed developed for its viciousness.

What's really worrying is the new trend towards wolf-dog hybrids. It's not enough just to have a purebreed now, but there are human beings out there with genitalia so concave they need a dangerously imbalanced animal as likely to eat them as someone else. Then again since I invoked Darwin, maybe it's nature desperately trying to cleans the shallow end of the gene pool.

ScumLord · 24-02-2011 08:44PM

RuneKnight3 wrote: »

I think we can all agree that if someone doesn't want a vicious animal, one shouldn't seek out a breed developed for its viciousness.

People don't realise that most small terrier dogs where breed to be fearlessly vicious. They where breed on farms over thousands of years to control pests (and intruders) and be absolutely fearless, then people wonder why their so aggressive in the home, that's what we breed them to be like.

RuneKnight3 · 24-02-2011 08:55PM

ScumLord wrote: »

People don't realise that most small terrier dogs where breed to be fearlessly vicious. They where breed on farms over thousands of years to control pests (and intruders) and be absolutely fearless, then people wonder why their so aggressive in the home, that's what we breed them to be like.

I did not know this myself. Thanks for the heads up.

wolfpawnat · 24-02-2011 08:59PM

I think it should be very heavily regulated. Potential breeders should meet requirements and all dogs and bítches used for breeding should be vetted correctly. There are too many people breeding Labrador's with hip problems and GSD are being bred to have the slanted back which is detrimental to the dogs physical health!

Cherry Blossom · 24-02-2011 10:11PM

ScumLord wrote: »

What's elite in your definition? Strongest or the fluffiest tail? Working dog breeds are breed to be strong and healthy unless they become popular like the German Shepard and you see dogs with terrible skeletal structures.

Neither actually :rolleyes: Come back when you figure out what my post means, and when you have the slightest clue what a vizsla is! Me personally, I'd be looking for one that has proven working dogs as parents with clean bills of health and detailed ancestory records, I'd research each and every single dog listed on them to death. I have already said on this thread (or perhaps it was a different one) that I wouldn't touch a German Shephard with a roached back with a bargepole, there are still plenty of the working strains in existance you know!

ScumLord · 25-02-2011 01:13AM

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

there are still plenty of the working strains in existance you know!

But the problem is as those breeds become more popular and widely known the only way to meet demand is through heavy interbreeding. The working breeds are becoming more popular now You will often see hunting dogs being led around cities and homed in apartments. It's not really a suitable environment for such an animal.

If you do proper research then fair play to you but you'd have to admit that the vast majority of people buy a dog for it's looks and wouldn't even have the wherewithal to even begin to research where their dog comes from.

steddyeddy · 25-02-2011 01:48AM

TheZohan wrote: »

I have a pedigree dog, he's a healthy little bastard and great craic. He's the only dog I could have for where I live and the hours that I keep.

You shouldn't ban all pedigree dog breeding, tighter legislation could solve most problems.

That would be my view on things but the legislation should be a lot stricter, pedigree dog breeding is like any form of inbreeding, it leads to the decline of an species health

Dangerous Man · 25-02-2011 01:57AM

I have two Cavalier King Charles Spaniels back home in Ireland. They're both with my family being well taken care off. They both get regular check-ups and have full health insurance. Which is more than I can say for myself.

As for interbreeding - it does need proper regulation and that starts with legislation and is bolstered by responsible dog ownership. My little fur babies often sit in the front window of my house and have a good old nose at people and other dogs going by. One day I got a knock on the front door and was told by the guy standing there that he saw my dogs and wanted to 'rent' one for breeding purposes. I told him where to go.

A less scrupulous owner would have pocketed the cash and not worried about the bitch or puppies. Those sort of people should not have dogs. The problem is, as I see it, not interbreeding - it is bad owners.

steddyeddy · 25-02-2011 02:19AM

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

Neither actually :rolleyes: Come back when you figure out what my post means, and when you have the slightest clue what a vizsla is! Me personally, I'd be looking for one that has proven working dogs as parents with clean bills of health and detailed ancestory records, I'd research each and every single dog listed on them to death. I have already said on this thread (or perhaps it was a different one) that I wouldn't touch a German Shephard with a roached back with a bargepole, there are still plenty of the working strains in existance you know!

There is no such thing as an elite animal. the best youll get is a healthy animal that manages to spread on its genes. When some people describe a dog or whatever as elite is when the dog conforms to their own aesthetic tastes.

Meteoric · 25-02-2011 02:23AM

Should we ban Racehorse Breeding? they all trace back to 9 or so original horses. Should we ban Cattle Breeding? Each of any given breed trace back to a limited number of originals. Should we ban all breeding? No.
Should we ban breeding for a trait that is a bad trait? yes
FFS the breeder I got my dog from (disclosure my aunt) does hip scoring on all breeding dogs, yearly eye tests, genetic screening for eye problems etc. The breed standard for Labradors specifies that they should be fit for purpose (I'm paraphrasing) in that the should be able to go out shooting and carry a goose or similar sized bird back by themselves by specifying proportions of nose to head to body etc. Every mating is considered back to Great Grandparents as to whether it is a good idea to try get the best dog possible.
When dogs are left to their own devices they do not tend to take these things into account

So a GSD mating with a lab could have horrendous consequences for the pups hips.
Responsible breeding, you assess the risks and how close to the perfect dog both parents are and take a risk. Mongrels, you are relying on how responsible a bitch in heat is.

Should pedigree dog breeding be banned?

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