Should pedigree dog breeding be banned?

ScumLord

I have a problem with the entire pedigree dog breeding industry ti's cruel and wrong. If you where to translate it into human terms it simply wouldn't be tolerated because no one would ever think it was right to force dwarfs or albinos to reproduce solely amongst themselves simply because you like the look of them.

Many of these animals are picking up horrible mutations and deformities, some traits like the Rhodesian Ridgebacks ridge are actually a sign something is seriously wrong with the dog yet Rhodesian pups that don't feature the deformity are routinely put down at birth.

Many of the breeds of dog where breed for a specific purpose and the fact they where working dogs promoted the breeding of healthy animals but now they're simply breed for looks and the health is becoming less and less of concern. Many working breeds are now so deformed they are useless at the tasks they where breed for.

Miniature dogs are the worst example of this IMO, these are animals that simply couldn't survive on their own and many suffer from Syringomyelia where the skull is too small for their brain, in humans it's described as one of the most painful aliments known to man.

Outside of working dogs there should be maybe one or two breeds, mainly a large and medium sized dog. After everything the species has done for us they deserve to have the over all health of the species considered.

*I would have put this in the pets forum but it doesn't strike me as a place for debate and would be completely one sided.

EDIT: Probably should have thought of putting a pole on this.

PanchoVilla

Yes. Inbreeding leads to all sorts of medical complications and causes animals to suffer needlessly. Besides, mutts are just so much cooler than purebreds.

galwayrush

Let the dogs shag whatever bitch they fancy...

TheZohanS

I have a pedigree dog, he's a healthy little bastard and great craic. He's the only dog I could have for where I live and the hours that I keep.

You shouldn't ban all pedigree dog breeding, tighter legislation could solve most problems.

bleg

Mattie McGrath will be after you!

PanchoVilla

TheZohan wrote: »

I have a pedigree dog, he's a healthy little bastard and great craic. He's the only dog I could have for where I live and the hours that I keep.

You shouldn't ban all pedigree dog breeding, tighter legislation could solve most problems.

What breed is it? Lots of purebreds have conditions that are hard to spot unless you know they might be there.

Edit: And tighter legislation in Ireland would mean some legislation.

ScumLord

TheZohan wrote: »

I have a pedigree dog, he's a healthy little bastard and great craic. He's the only dog I could have for where I live and the hours that I keep.

You shouldn't ban all pedigree dog breeding, tighter legislation could solve most problems.

The problem with dogs in general is they're very bad at communicating pain, they just soldier on without complaint.

mojesius

When I was a kid, we had a pure bred cocker spaniel. When he was around 5, he really slowed down on walks. We took him to the vet and he had to be put on heart murmur tablets, he had awful eye problems his entire life and died when he was just 7. We got him from a small breeder, his parents were there, one litter,IKC reg blah blah etc. Similar situation with a King Charles a few years later.

My 14 year old rescue cross still sprints around the park every day, is constantly on the alert and the only thing ailment she has suffered is a rotten tooth.

In short, I completely agree.

TheZohanS

PanchoVilla wrote: »

What breed is it? Lots of purebreds have conditions that are hard to spot unless you know they might be there.

What difference does it make as to what breed he is? (not being smart)

Lots of humans have conditions also. Should we stop people with genetic conditions having kids too?

PanchoVilla

TheZohan wrote: »

What difference does it make as to what breed he is? (not being smart)

Lots of humans have conditions also. Should we stop people with genetic conditions having kids too?

Like I said, some breeds have conditions that are hard to spot. Others have conditions that don't show up until later in life, like German shepherds and their hips. You might think the dog is fine when it's actually not. We should stop mating dogs with adverse genetic conditions, yes.

ScumLord

mojesius wrote: »

When I was a kid, we had a pure bred cocker spaniel. When he was around 5, he really slowed down on walks. We took him to the vet and he had to be put on heart murmur tablets, he had awful eye problems his entire life and died when he was just 7. We got him from a small breeder, his parents were there, one litter,IKC reg blah blah etc. Similar situation with a King Charles a few years later.

My 14 year old rescue cross still sprints around the park every day, is constantly on the alert and the only thing ailment she has suffered is a rotten tooth.

In short, I completely agree.

I had a mongrel that was as hard as nails, got hit by a car and still lived to the age of 16. My friend paid €900 for a top class Doberman which had hip problems within a year.

TheZohan wrote: »

Lots of humans have conditions also. Should we stop people with genetic conditions having kids too?

No but we wouldn't force them to only reproduce with people with the same disability. Which is the main difference.

I don't want to accuse the people who get pedigrees of anything, this is something that came as a shock to me as it really never crossed my mind that pedigree breeding was so bad.

TheZohanS

ScumLord wrote: »

The problem with dogs in general is they're very bad at communicating pain, they just soldier on without complaint.

Very true, that's why only responsible owners should be allowed have dogs. I bring my fella to the vet for regular check ups.

PanchoVilla wrote: »

Like I said, some breeds have conditions that are hard to spot. Others have conditions that don't show up until later in life, like German shepherds and their hips. You might think the dog is fine when it's actually not. We should stop mating dogs with adverse genetic conditions, yes.

It is true that many breeds have conditions, if you're thinking of adopting a pedigree dog you should always do your research. I picked up my dog in the UK as it's a rare breed in Ireland and there was much less chance of inbreeding. Also I have the full history of his parents, grand parents etc. going back generations.

ScumLord wrote: »

I had a mongrel that was as hard as nails, got hit by a car and still lived to the age of 16. My friend paid €900 for a top class Doberman which had hip problems within a year.

No but we wouldn't force them to only reproduce with people with the same disability. Which is the main difference.

I don't want to accuse the people who get pedigrees of anything, this is something that came as a shock to me as it really never crossed my mind that pedigree breeding was so bad.

Again if you do your research on the breed, check out the parents of your dog and buy from a respectable dealer you will eliminate a lot of the problems.

antomagoo

ScumLord wrote: »

Many of the breeds of dog where breed for a specific purpose and the fact they where working dogs promoted the breeding of healthy animals but now they're simply breed for looks and the health is becoming less and less of concern. Many working breeds are now so deformed they are useless at the tasks they where breed for.

Miniature dogs are the worst example of this IMO, these are animals that simply couldn't survive on their own and many suffer from Syringomyelia where the skull is too small for their brain, in humans it's described as one of the most painful aliments known to man.

I agree to some extent with you. I think the likes of Cruffts and various worldwide kennel clubs that set breed standards have an awful lot to answer for. As dogs were being bred purely for how they looked with scant regard given to health issues from inbreeding to achieve the required standard/

But a lot of responsible breeders of specific breeds have actually started to address the issue of health problems as a result of inbreeding and have moved away from the traditional methods of breeding, the most popular of which was getting the male to mate with his grandaughter AFAIK.

But I think it would be a shame to get rid of a lot of breeds IMO.

ScumLord wrote: »

*I would have put this in the pets forum but it doesn't strike me as a place for debate and would be completely one sided.

Its just the place for debate, probably very heated debate

PeterIanStaker

Mutts are the best. They're smarter, healthier and more robust.

German Shepherds get hip problems, West Highlands go deaf, and the OP already mentioned the Rhodhesian ridgeback. Enough said nearly.

ScumLord

TheZohan wrote: »

Again if you do your research on the breed, check out the parents of your dog and buy from a respectable dealer you will eliminate a lot of the problems.

That really does nothing to stop the bad breeders from trying to cash in. I am dead set against any niche breed though, it doesn't matter how much research you do to ensure the parents of your dog weren't mother and son, it won't tell you how many of the pups were put down because there was something wrong with them health or looks wise.

What would a respectable breeder do with dogs it can't sell because they don't make the grade? If they are like any other domestic animal breeder those animals are destroyed.

Black Swan

Geeeeeeee, humans have been selectively breeding for thousands of years, why not their pets?

df1985

labs are another breed suffering from bad hips and joints these days. Ive a healthy lab thankfully, but I know loads of people who have got labs since that have bad hips.

southsiderosie

I don't think it should be banned outright; some people, for example, have allergies and getting certain breeds allows them to have a dog. And some people just like certain breeds of dogs; I have an 85 year old great-uncle that until 5 years ago always had a Great Dane.

I do hate that so many people pick certain breeds because it's trendy, not because they know or care anything about the characteristics of the dogs. Paris Hilton popularizing Teacup Chihuahuas, for example. It's especially bad if the breed in question are large, active dogs; people who saw "101 Dalmatians" and then ran out and got their own were in for a rude awakening - they are a LOT of work.

My main issue is, I wish more people who wanted to get a dog would consider adopting one from a shelter. There are so many good dogs that get put down every year, and one of the main reasons people get rid of them is "oh, the dog was too much work". Ugh.

AgileMyth

ScumLord wrote: »

I had a mongrel that was as hard as nails, got hit by a car and still lived to the age of 16. My friend paid €900 for a top class Doberman which had hip problems within a year.

We have a pure bred german shepherd that was shot about five years back. Shes about ten now and still healthy. Your dog, like mine, was just extremely lucky. Nothing to do with breeding.

mojesius

df1985 wrote: »

labs are another breed suffering from bad hips and joints these days. Ive a healthy lab thankfully, but I know loads of people who have got labs since that have bad hips.

Labs are really great dogs but as you suggested, unfortunately, it's hit and miss with their health. If I had a bigger garden, I'd love to rescue something along the lines of a lab cross.

I can't justify buying a dog when there are thousands needing a home for free.

ScumLord

AgileMyth wrote: »

We have a pure bred german shepherd that was shot about five years back. Shes about ten now and still healthy. Your dog, like mine, was just extremely lucky. Nothing to do with breeding.

Well it does play into it, a mongrel will automatically have a better chance of good health simply down to the fact it's parents weren't interbreed. It's a fact of genetics the closer the parents are genetically the more likely you are to encounter problems, that goes for the vast majority of animals on the planet.

southsiderosie wrote: »

And some people just like certain breeds of dogs;

But people like odd looking dogs, again it's the same as forcing a person that looks somehow unusual to only breed with people that have the same unusual looks. It's wrong and leads to complications.

Discodog

ScumLord wrote: »

*I would have put this in the pets forum but it doesn't strike me as a place for debate and would be completely one sided.

Are your ears burning - we are referring to this thread on API

Just out of interest & feel free to PM the answer, but if it was debated on API which side do you think would dominate ?

sligopark

southsiderosie wrote: »

My main issue is, I wish more people who wanted to get a dog would consider adopting one from a shelter. There are so many good dogs that get put down every year, and one of the main reasons people get rid of them is "oh, the dog was too much work". Ugh.

+1

PanchoVilla

Just thought I'd pop this link for Leitrim Animal Welfare shelter for anyone in the northwest thinking of getting a dog in the near future. They update the site regularly and have some really lovely dogs. You can view pics and descriptions when you click the "homes needed" link. A friend of mine actually picked up "Duke" about a week ago. He's a beast!! If I had a big place with a nice field I'd take them all, but alas I live in a hole in the middle of town.

http://www.leitrimanimals.com/

southsiderosie

ScumLord wrote: »

But people like odd looking dogs, again it's the same as forcing a person that looks somehow unusual to only breed with people that have the same unusual looks. It's wrong and leads to complications.

It's not just that dogs are odd; people often get specific breeds because they are better with children or small apartments. To use my uncle's example, he lived in an isolated house on several acres in the woods, had 3 kids, and liked to go on long walks: a Great Dane suited his family's lifestyle.

I agree that inbreeding is a problem, for people and for dogs. Certainly isolated human populations are prone to strange genetic disorders. But I think a lot of the problems with breeding stem from dogs that are really popular; German Shepards got really bad for a while in the US, as did Golden Retrievers and Black Labs. Demand seems to drive a lot of breeding problems, more than the actual process itself.

ScumLord

Discodog wrote: »

Are your ears burning - we are referring to this thread on API

Just out of interest & feel free to PM the answer, but if it was debated on API which side do you think would dominate ?

The pedigree people would win out. One of the only times I got infracted was in that forum and I was told someone reported the post and once a post is reported it's an automatic ban/infraction so I'm not to keen on posting in there.

budcans47

last year there was a program on in breeding in dogs, and one top breeder with Pugs would not not do a DNA on hers. for the program , they show Pugs years ago did not have skin coming down over there eyes... now some of the have to stitches to keep to keep it up from there eyes,,, all from in breeding...

pickarooney

Blue_Lagoon wrote: »

Geeeeeeee, humans have been selectively breeding for thousands of years, why not their pets?

Sure, let the pets select who they breed with.

TheZohanS

pickarooney wrote: »

Sure, let the pets select who they breed with.

Don't, my dog has tried to hump every girl I've ever had over.

PanchoVilla

pickarooney wrote: »

Sure, let the pets select who they breed with.

I'm not too sure how well that would work out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBWtI2HZZSE

Discodog

We kill about 6500 dogs per year in our Pounds. Scotland, which has a similar human & dog population, kills about 800. We also kill about 10,000 Greyhounds.

If someone is set on a pedigree dog, even a Pup, there is every chance of finding one at a rescue rather than encouraging a breeder to produce more for profit.

People get incredible hung up over getting the right breed. I found an abandoned 6 month old Labrador Collie Cross whilst walking my other dogs. He would of been a Christmas pup who probably got to boisterous or the novelty just wore off. Several local rescues could of taken him but someone decided to dump him & let him fend for himself. He is now with me & will have a wonderful home.

What makes this worse is that he is housetrained, well behaved, doesn't chew, is brilliant with kids & is the perfect family dog. So please do not assume that a rescue dog is some kind of reject. I also have a Greyhound that was dumped, terrified, into the middle of Galway. I had never considered one as a pet but I am so glad I did as she is wonderful.