IMF - Big Bad Wolf?

Duck's hoop · 03-11-2010 05:00PM #1

There's a lot of talk, inescapable at the moment, about the IMF ''coming in'' to Ireland and doing unspeakable things to the country.

I'm just curious if anyone knows who they are, how do they ''come in'', what might we expect them to do?

I mean do they arrive in blacked out limos, helicopters, jets, men in black style?
Who lets them ''come in''?

Is it a crazy notion that IMF might be used as a bogey man to scare us stupid so we'll take any and all austerity measures in the coming budget just to keep the wolf from the door?

I remember talk like this in the mid eighties, it didn't happen then.

I'm not saying it won't happen but would like to see what the rational heads on After Hours think.

Morlar · 03-11-2010 05:04PM

My take on it is that they will look at our finances in terms of spreadsheets in clinical terms, the notion of cosy relationships with quangoes and unions and vested interests is not in their brief. They do not need to cling to power by their fingertips nor do they need to get re-elected. They will butcher the amounts paid in dole as they are among the highest on earth and we can not afford it - they will crucify the public sector too. Also private sector Paye workers will pay more tax etc etc

Duck's hoop · 03-11-2010 05:08PM

Seems reasonable to me.

Seaneh · 03-11-2010 05:10PM

It works this way.

Ireland owes "The World" €50.

Ireland only has €25, the IMF say, hey Ireland, we will give you the €25 you need so as to not default on your loan, but there are conditions. You have to drastically cut your spending in all areas, streamline government and abide by our rules until the loan is repaid to us.

That's the gist of it.

It would be hardship in the short term but IMHO, we'd nearly be better off for it, our public sector would actually be functional by the end of it and politicians wouldn't be paid insane wages and expenses anymore.

flyton5 · 03-11-2010 05:10PM

The IMF are coming you say? :eek:

*hides*

coconut5 · 03-11-2010 05:11PM

Morlar wrote: »

They will butcher the amounts paid in dole as they are among the highest on earth

I laughed at this comment, then I realised how true it is.

Morlar · 03-11-2010 05:11PM

Duck's hoop wrote: »

Seems reasonable to me.

I am starting to think that they are a necessary evil.

Denerick · 03-11-2010 05:13PM

A serious discussion on the economic fate of this country... on After Hours.

Seems to be the Irish way of doing things.

Morlar · 03-11-2010 05:16PM

Denerick wrote: »

A serious discussion on the economic fate of this country... on After Hours.

Seems to be the Irish way of doing things.

In fairness the 'economic fate of our country' is quite topical at the moment. And no you do not need to be an economist or to work in the financial sector before you can voice an opinion on this.

Denerick · 03-11-2010 05:17PM

Morlar wrote: »

In fairness the 'economic fate of our country' is quite topical at the moment. And no you do not need to be an economist or to work in the financial sector before you can voice an opinion on this.

I just think AH is a sewer and this thread is destined to end in some fetish like meme fúck.

th3 s1aught3r · 03-11-2010 05:18PM

we could all hide under a big pile of coats and hope it all sorts itself out

Duck's hoop · 03-11-2010 05:19PM

Morlar wrote: »

I am starting to think that they are a necessary evil.

Just might be a good idea alright. Bit like sending an spoiled, obese glutton off to a good old boot camp for a while.

Morlar · 03-11-2010 05:22PM

Denerick wrote: »

I just think AH is a sewer and this thread is destined to end in some fetish like meme fúck.

Well that would make you and I both sewer dwellers. I agree AH is often chronic ****e but not 100% of the time. Anyway it's no harm to occassionaly look at serious issues in a lighthearted less formal manner. It serves as a good counter balance to the more respectable less sewer-ey kinds of forums a couple of clicks away. Anyway IMF = Impossible Mission Fund.

** Also all the students are out getting bashed by the Gardaí today so it should be less meme-ey ish than normal.

bonerm · 03-11-2010 05:24PM

So in simplest terms we get our finances sorted out and the Dail gombeens lose their power? Sounds awful.

Wertz · 03-11-2010 05:26PM

Denerick wrote: »

I just think AH is a sewer and this thread is destined to end in some fetish like meme fúck.

You've been around 18 months and still drawn this conclussion? There's plenty of serious debate and chat in AH all the while intermingled with the bullsh*t, puns, jokes, flirting and whatever...it's all part of the charm.

As for the IMF...part of me dreads what it'll do to the country, part of me wants to see a line drawn under all the economic waste and mismanagement. The talk of it has been around since sep 08 but the last few months have seen it pop up all over the place...it's a bogeyman, sure...but it's not a fairytale either.

Coriolanus · 03-11-2010 05:33PM

I can't wait for them.
I used to think the best thing would be turning the keys over to Brussels but after the fiasco with the EU budget recently I've lost faith in them.
Bring in the accountants!

PeterIanStaker · 03-11-2010 05:37PM

Maybe the big bad wolf needs to take down a few of the white elephants that have roamed free too long - HSE, TD's expenses etc?

southsiderosie · 03-11-2010 05:47PM

Be careful what you wish for.

The IMF is going to force the government to severely cut public wages and services. In exchange, they may help the government restructure its debt. But it will not help individuals do so. This means that people are going to be stuck paying the 2005 prices for their homes, even though wages and spending are going to be cut back to mid-1990s levels. It is the only way that Ireland can both pay its debt and restore its competitiveness. But it is going to be absolutely brutal in the short-to-medium term.

derfderf · 03-11-2010 05:49PM

Denerick wrote: »

I just think AH is a sewer and this thread is destined to end in some fetish like meme fúck.

They climbing in your windows, snatching dole payments up?

thebigbiffo · 03-11-2010 05:54PM

there's no way the IMF will bail out ireland - mark my words.

now the ECB, different matter entirely...

Amhran Nua · 03-11-2010 05:54PM

Seaneh wrote: »

It works this way.

Ireland owes "The World" €50.

Ireland only has €25, the IMF say, hey Ireland, we will give you the €25 you need so as to not default on your loan, but there are conditions. You have to drastically cut your spending in all areas, streamline government and abide by our rules until the loan is repaid to us.

That's the gist of it.

Not exactly. Here's how it actually works:

Ireland needs €25 to pay the rent and put food on the table. But nobody will lend it to Ireland because Ireland always spends it on hookers and blow. So the IMF comes in and says right, change the way you run the show and we'll tell everyone else you're on the wagon. After Ireland cleans up its act, and passes inspection, the IMF loans Ireland €5 as a signal to the rest of the world that its alright to lend to Ireland again.

This analogy has been brought to you today by a decade of FF government.

OutlawPete · 03-11-2010 06:00PM

Duck's hoop wrote: »

There's a lot of talk, inescapable at the moment, about the IMF ''coming in'' to Ireland and doing unspeakable things to the country.

Ah nice one, I loved them when I was a kid.

The things, you say
Your purple prose just gives you away
The things, you say
You're unbelievable!!!

Lumen · 03-11-2010 06:04PM

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

Maybe the big bad wolf needs to take down a few of the white elephants that have roamed free too long - HSE, TD's expenses etc?

There's no way a wolf can take an elephant.

Steyr · 03-11-2010 06:09PM

A texter to Newstalk yesterday was saying that they did worse in Romania?? If you called in sick etc they deemed you fired from your job, cut dole to next to nothing, cut your salary to 30%, slashed their Govt's salarys.

Biggins · 03-11-2010 06:13PM

I would not like to the the IMF being called in.
It would possibly effect the Euro versus other currencies (and the side effects of that alone?), it might be a uncompromising "slash and burn" policy without further thought to consequences and also it would effect Ireland national/business reputation internationally seriously for decades to come.

Lumen · 03-11-2010 06:15PM

The bigger risk is if the Germans force us to raise corp tax. Then we're really fecked.

Morlar · 03-11-2010 06:16PM

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Not exactly. Here's how it actually works:

Ireland needs €25 to pay the rent and put food on the table. But nobody will lend it to Ireland because Ireland always spends it on hookers and blow. So the IMF comes in and says right, change the way you run the show and we'll tell everyone else you're on the wagon. After Ireland cleans up its act, and passes inspection, the IMF loans Ireland €5 as a signal to the rest of the world that its alright to lend to Ireland again.

This analogy has been brought to you today by a decade of FF government.

Where siptu are the hookers and blow is the public sector/ hse thats eerily accurate.

Duck's hoop · 03-11-2010 06:20PM

Morlar wrote: »

Where siptu are the hookers and blow is the public sector/ hse thats eerily accurate.

It's going against the grain but, isn't a public sector really indispensable in a properly functioning society. Police, nurses, local authorities even teachers are needed. And they need paying for doing a job surely?

Amhran Nua · 03-11-2010 06:21PM

Morlar wrote: »

Where siptu are the hookers and blow is the public sector/ hse thats eerily accurate.

The saddest thing about the whole situation is we don't need the IMF to tell us anything, its as plain as the nose on Cowen's face what we need to do. If it does reach the stage that they are called in, it'll really be an effort to pass the blame by whoever is in charge at the time.

Amhran Nua · 03-11-2010 06:23PM

Duck's hoop wrote: »

It's going against the grain but, isn't a public sector really indispensable in a properly functioning society. Police, nurses, local authorities even teachers are needed. And they need paying for doing a job surely?

The term "enormous middle management rump" is doing the rounds a lot these days.

Morlar · 03-11-2010 06:23PM

Biggins wrote: »

I would not like to the the IMF being called in.
It would possibly effect the Euro versus other currencies (and the side effects of that alone?), it might be a uncompromising "slash and burn" policy without further thought to consequences and also it would effect Ireland national/business reputation internationally seriously for decades to come.

Ireland's economic reputation is already adversely affected for years to come. That is a fact regardless of IMF intervention or not. It's arguable that the IMF would at least put an end to the the slow motion car crash we have all been in for the last few years.

I think they will slash and burn and some people and services will be adversely affected - but that's the situation we are in and the alternatives appear worse to me at this stage. FF /greens can not be trusted - we are years down the road and the hole is still getting bigger and bigger, they still have not tackled any of the core issues such as public sector, HSE, welfare burden nor have they come clean with exactly how screwed things really are. They are hoping to bluff their way out of it by getting lucky and no one in the intl community finds them remotely credible. That is my 'non-financial background' off the cuff take on it.

IMF - Big Bad Wolf?

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