Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

California limits use of welfare 'debit cards' to essential purchases

24

Comments

  • #32
    Saadyst
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 535 ✭✭✭Saadyst


    The immediate concern I would have about this is: like it or not, there are a load of people out there who have debt. Some have a little debt, some have a lot.

    If they can't keep up the minimum payments, they'll have to pay more in the long term, along with penalty charges, possibly dealing with the courts / bailiffs etc.

    Basically, I'm thinking that this idea might make people poorer rather than better off.

    Even if they find a job, they'll have to face the months / years of debt they couldn't pay when they were unemployed.


  • #33
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Saadyst wrote: »
    The immediate concern I would have about this is: like it or not, there are a load of people out there who have debt. Some have a little debt, some have a lot.

    If they can't keep up the minimum payments, they'll have to pay more in the long term, along with penalty charges, possibly dealing with the courts / bailiffs etc.

    Basically, I'm thinking that this idea might make people poorer rather than better off.

    Even if they find a job, they'll have to face the months / years of debt they couldn't pay when they were unemployed.

    Well for those that are blowing their money on booze and fags, paying of debts will come secondary anyway, if at all.

    So if a portion was cash and the rest on card, those that have those bills and do want to keep paying them, the notes will still be there for them.


  • #34
    Mister men
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭Mister men


    thebigbiffo wrote: »
    http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-ebt-cards-20101102,0,928832.story

    At first glance the idea of a welfare 'debit card' seems like a useless idea. Welfare payments are paid into bank accounts in this country which can then be used for any purchase whatsoever so what'd be the point in implementing a specific welfare 'debit card'?

    Well, considering what California have just done I think it's a great idea. Imagine a variation where when you signed up to the dole you recieved a card that could only be used to purchase specific items which the welfare payment is actually meant to pay for.

    For a start, lets say you could'nt take out cash (or only a small amount of cash) and thereafter the card would only work in supermarkets (excluding the alcohol section), hardware stores, clothes shops and other stores deemed to stock essential goods? At least then you could be assured that welfare is spent on just that - the 'welfare' of the recipient and their family and not alcohol, drugs, gambling etc.

    what thinks AH?

    I think it's long overdue tbh. I've seen to many scummers kids go without so they can feed their drug,drinking,gambling or smoking habits.


  • #35
    thebigbiffo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,941 ✭✭✭thebigbiffo


    Saadyst wrote: »
    The immediate concern I would have about this is: like it or not, there are a load of people out there who have debt. Some have a little debt, some have a lot.

    If they can't keep up the minimum payments, they'll have to pay more in the long term, along with penalty charges, possibly dealing with the courts / bailiffs etc.

    Basically, I'm thinking that this idea might make people poorer rather than better off.

    Even if they find a job, they'll have to face the months / years of debt they couldn't pay when they were unemployed.

    i also have an issue with people using dole money or any other allowances to pay MBNA their interest. the laws regarding personal debt would need to change to relfect the fact that if you lose your job you're no longer in a position to repay that debt through no fault of your own...

    ie. if MBNA give you a credit card worth x, that's their risk - not the taxpayers and they have to wait until you were back in work to recieve their money...anybody giving out credit needs to take responsibilty for what they did. the way it was, john and mary self employed carpenter and cleaner could run up debts of 10's of thouands and when they lose their jobs i'm paying their interest...ppffffft!


  • #36
    thomasj
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,087 ✭✭✭thomasj


    Make it solely laser card so that these cards cannot be used outside the country!


  • Advertisement
  • #37
    Sea Sharp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭Sea Sharp


    thomasj wrote: »
    Make it solely laser card so that these cards cannot be used outside the country!

    If buying outside the country was a problem, the government would be able to see this because presumably they'd have digital records of who's spending what and where.

    I think it's a good idea, but I don't think the government has the organisation or motivation to get it done in the next 5 years and they'd hire people that would over-charge for setting the system up.


  • #38
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    seamus wrote: »
    I came up with this idea more than a year ago: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055718985

    I am available to hire as a technology consultant for any state who wants to implement such a system. PM me, etc.

    We don't need to spend more money on consultants!;)


  • #39
    Saadyst
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 535 ✭✭✭Saadyst


    thebigbiffo wrote: »
    i also have an issue with people using dole money or any other allowances to pay MBNA their interest. the laws regarding personal debt would need to change to relfect the fact that if you lose your job you're no longer in a position to repay that debt through no fault of your own...

    ie. if MBNA give you a credit card worth x, that's their risk - not the taxpayers and they have to wait until you were back in work to recieve their money...anybody giving out credit needs to take responsibilty for what they did. the way it was, john and mary self employed carpenter and cleaner could run up debts of 10's of thouands and when they lose their jobs i'm paying their interest...ppffffft!

    Well, I think a lot of people would be happy with that.

    But the attitude of "why am I paying for these other people"... it just doesn't work. Because I don't have kids - why does my tax money go to teachers or schools? I don't make use of x y or z service from the government, why does my tax money go there?

    It's a society.

    Anyway, this is just a red herring. Dole claimants cost around €5b a year - and the total welfare bill comes to around €20b - IIRC.

    Out of that €5b, how much do you expect would be "saved" from this scheme? Or benefits achieved?

    This is just a placebo idea imo. In the grand scheme of things, not much gained, but the right-leaning are placated.


  • #40
    heavyballs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,683 ✭✭✭heavyballs


    i work in a bank and i recently stumbled upon a name of a guy known as a small time dealer in my area,he had requested a bank statement so i was just doing my job,didn't do anything illegal(although i shouldn't be telling all you guys)
    anyway for the past 6 years or so he seems to have his dole (it seems )along with some other regular payments payed into this current account,not 1 penny has been withdrawn,i would love to do something about this,here's this little scumbag with around €40k in a current account when i know he's dealing drugs,
    i wonder can i dob him in to the social


  • #41
    mickydoomsux
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,287 ✭✭✭mickydoomsux


    heavyballs wrote: »
    i work in a bank and i recently stumbled upon a name of a guy known as a small time dealer in my area,he had requested a bank statement so i was just doing my job,didn't do anything illegal(although i shouldn't be telling all you guys)
    anyway for the past 6 years or so he seems to have his dole (it seems )along with some other regular payments payed into this current account,not 1 penny has been withdrawn,i would love to do something about this,here's this little scumbag with around €40k in a current account when i know he's dealing drugs,
    i wonder can i dob him in to the social

    Nope. It's his money.

    We really are a pathetic nation. We have widespread state sponsored scum-baggery. Anyone who picks up a criminal conviction while receiving welfare should just have their welfare cut off.


  • Advertisement
  • #42
    godwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 393 ✭✭godwin


    thomasj wrote: »
    Make it solely laser card so that these cards cannot be used outside the country!


    Yes because people on the dole are making regular flights to Paris,London and Rome to spend their €196 a week , disgraceful.

    I think the obvious solution from reading suggestions in the thread is a total ban on the sale alcohol and cigarettes to people on social welfare.


  • #43
    Saadyst
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 535 ✭✭✭Saadyst


    heavyballs wrote: »
    i work in a bank and i recently stumbled upon a name of a guy known as a small time dealer in my area,he had requested a bank statement so i was just doing my job,didn't do anything illegal(although i shouldn't be telling all you guys)
    anyway for the past 6 years or so he seems to have his dole (it seems )along with some other regular payments payed into this current account,not 1 penny has been withdrawn,i would love to do something about this,here's this little scumbag with around €40k in a current account when i know he's dealing drugs,
    i wonder can i dob him in to the social

    Don't think you can technically do anything - data protection and all that. Although I think if he's on it for 6 years he would be on JSA.. which is means tested.. and reviewed every so often - they'd require the bank statements where the payments are going... so I dunno what's going on there.


  • #44
    Mrmoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭Mrmoe


    I think this a great idea. It would also offer the government the ability to collectively bargian. They could form an agreement with major supermarkets such as Tesco, Dunnes etc where major discounts can be offered for certain basic food items such as bread or milk if they are bought in those stores. Widespread fraud would be easy to track as there would be electronic records for everything.


  • #45
    curlzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,708 ✭✭✭curlzy


    thebigbiffo wrote: »
    i'm sorry but did someone on here allude to social welfare recipients being scum, i certainly didnt!
    how would this system treat people on SW as stupid exactly? how would it affect their dignity...paying with a debit card is alot less stigmatic than food stamps or vouchers which - believe me - you could see back as a feature of SW if things keep going the way they are!

    this is not about stigmatising SW recipients - this is about ensuring that genuine recipients get what they deserve while those that dont arent bleeding the taxpayer for every penny!

    we need to recognise that their is a distinction to be made between people who genuinely rely on support and those that dont - and they're there and costing us money, whether you like it or not.

    This quote answers your first question:
    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    The current system isn't fair on Children, there's a lot of people spending money on fags, booze and drugs that money should be going to school, food and clothes for their children.
    Free money days won't last forever, money needs to go to those that need it, not to pay for sky tv & superkings.

    I'm assuming you're not on social welfare because your opinion would defo differ if you were. Do you not think telling someone how to spend their money is infringing their dignity, no? You don't think that telling someone "oh you're probably going to spend your children's food money on heroin so we're going to give you this little card instead of cash" is infringing their dignity and treating them like scum?

    Le big ****ing sigh. . . .
    I'm so sick of people acting like social welfare recipients are scumbag knackers. Like really bloody sick of it, to all of you that treat social welfare recipients like that, I really and truly with all my heart that you end up on the dole so you can see what it's like. There but for the grace of god go I, I'm lucky to have a job but I don't look down on others that don't. This attitude is so ****ing sickeningly hypocritical too, you do realise that we're in a recession? and that you could be the next in the unemployment line, at which time you'll be screaming about being treated like ****e. I really hope what goes around comes around in this case.


  • #46
    Saadyst
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 535 ✭✭✭Saadyst


    Mrmoe wrote: »
    I think this a great idea. It would also offer the government the ability to collectively bargian. They could form an agreement with major supermarkets such as Tesco, Dunnes etc where major discounts can be offered for certain basic food items such as bread or milk if they are bought in those stores. Widespread fraud would be easy to track as there would be electronic records for everything.

    Good intentions, but won't that serve to hurt the small business owners more, trying to compete against that? If a bunch of their customers now are spending their money in Tescos because that's one of the only places they can..


  • #47
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    godwin wrote: »
    ...I think the obvious solution from reading suggestions in the thread is a total ban on the sale alcohol and cigarettes to people on social welfare.
    Your either attempting to troll or just lack little insight and/or think those unemployed, when they become so, become second class citizens!

    You cannot discriminate against those that have committed no crime.
    There are laws for this alone.

    You can however see to it that state funding is spent more wisely.


  • #48
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,506 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    heavyballs wrote: »
    i work in a bank and i recently stumbled upon a name of a guy known as a small time dealer in my area,he had requested a bank statement so i was just doing my job,didn't do anything illegal(although i shouldn't be telling all you guys)
    anyway for the past 6 years or so he seems to have his dole (it seems )along with some other regular payments payed into this current account,not 1 penny has been withdrawn,i would love to do something about this,here's this little scumbag with around €40k in a current account when i know he's dealing drugs,
    i wonder can i dob him in to the social

    I failed my banking exam a few times but I do remember something about reporting cases like this. The Gards/Social Welfare/Revenue would all like a slice of that pie. Your obliged to tell them I think.


  • #49
    Doneg Al
    Closed Accounts Posts: 45 ✭Doneg Al


    I think the government needs to spend more time creating jobs for all the people desperate for work, less time worrying about how junkies spend their social welfare.


  • #50
    up for anything
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,791 ✭✭✭up for anything


    This thread is the most evil, perverted nasty thread I have ever seen on boards.ie and most of the posters on it are worse than the so called scumbags. All of your worrying about the welfare of what you term scumbag kids is fake. You wouldn't refer to them as scumbag kids if you had one ounce of real concern. All you are worried about is what your hard earned tax money is being frittered away on. Well screw you and I hope to welcome you to the ever growing band of social welfare scum recipients one of these days - probably in January 2011.

    You make me sick! :mad:


  • #51
    heavyballs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,683 ✭✭✭heavyballs


    up for anything wrote: »
    This thread is the most evil, perverted nasty thread I have ever seen on boards.ie and most of the posters on it are worse than the so called scumbags. All of your worrying about the welfare of what you term scumbag kids is fake. You wouldn't refer to them as scumbag kids if you had one ounce of real concern. All you are worried about is what your hard earned tax money is being frittered away on. Well screw you and I hope to welcome you to the ever growing band of social welfare scum recipients one of these days - probably in January 2011.

    You make me sick! :mad:

    any luck on the jobs front? ..........no.?


  • Advertisement
  • #52
    Yakult
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 7,943 Mod ✭✭✭✭Yakult


    How many people in this country are working and claiming the dole together? Alot.

    How many people are getting the full whack while living at home, while using a different adress to show they are living with someone else and paying rent? Alot.

    How many people come from abroad and abuse our simple system and then fcuk off to their country again? Alot.

    Before the gov. starts thinking of these somewhat rediculous ideas to throw on everyone, they should maybe work on their own problems first. Any tom dick and harry can see its an abused system which is costing the country, yet they dont seem bothered to fix it. Yet they want to introduce all these new ideas which will just cost more.

    Essential purchases? What defines essential purchases?
    Some people are getting €100 p/w and living at home. Does that mean they have to spend it all on food that they dont need?

    What about people paying morgages, need a car..
    etc. etc.


    I'l be very happy when Jobs start being created in places other than Dublin. People live outside that area too believe it or not.

    This country is a joke, they are all talk about job creation. They dug their own grave and its not peoples fault that they cant bring jobs to the country and need some sort of income to live on. In all fairness €200 a week isnt a whole lot given the high price of living here.


  • #53
    Tigger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,701 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    AnonoBoy wrote: »
    "Howya there boss? I just bought all these essential items in your store a few minutes ago but then I realised they're not what I need at all. Can I exchange them for eh.... let's see, 2 flagons of cider, 10 packs of fags and 24 cans of Tuborg?"

    why yes you can and may i say thats a lovley dog you have there


  • #54
    up for anything
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,791 ✭✭✭up for anything


    heavyballs wrote: »
    any luck on the jobs front? ..........no.?

    And what are you implying by that?


  • #55
    Triangla
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 818 ✭✭✭Triangla


    up for anything wrote: »
    This thread is the most evil, perverted nasty thread I have ever seen on boards.ie and most of the posters on it are worse than the so called scumbags. All of your worrying about the welfare of what you term scumbag kids is fake. You wouldn't refer to them as scumbag kids if you had one ounce of real concern. All you are worried about is what your hard earned tax money is being frittered away on. Well screw you and I hope to welcome you to the ever growing band of social welfare scum recipients one of these days - probably in January 2011.

    You make me sick! :mad:

    I think the main vein of this thread is regarding those who we have all seen in tesco in the middle of the day pissed out of their heads buying yet more booze.

    I was renting in Dublin City centre for years and saw the same faces day in day out always locked and still always in and out of the local shops and off licence.

    If there was a way of controlling their spending dole money I for one think it should be looked at.

    Nobody benefits from letting young people ruin their lives by never entering the workforce and going though life pissing our and their own resources away.

    I would not like to see it for everyone on the dole of course, it's a terrible place to be for anyone. Humiliation will not benefit anyone, the dole is a horrible situation for anyone who wants a real shot at a good life as it is.

    It's just another topic of discussion on boards, don't take it personally.


  • #56
    Triangla
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 818 ✭✭✭Triangla


    heavyballs wrote: »
    any luck on the jobs front? ..........no.?

    That comment is very snide, uncalled for really.


  • #57
    southsiderosie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,560 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    curlzy wrote: »
    I'd be totally against this. Contrary to popular belief not all social welfare recepients are scum :rolleyes:. This idea that it's ok to treat social welfare recepients like stupid people is just indicative of how nasty our hive mind has gotton. Social welfare recipents are entitled to their dignity too you know!!! This kind of idea turns my stomach to be honest.

    Actually dignity is why cards were introduced in the US in the first place. People were embarrassed when they had to pull out food stamps at the grocery store. With a Link Card, you just look like you are paying with a debit card like everyone else in line.

    For administrative purposes, I think it would be better just to give social welfare recipients all of their benefits in cash issued on the card. People sign in, and their account gets topped up with all their entitlements. If they piss it away, they piss it away.

    However, the caveat should be that benefits are not for a lifetime. So every person in Ireland who has worked and paid into the system for at least five years should get a lifetime maximum of five years (60 months) drawing the dole. For those working less than five years, they can get back what they have put in. Social welfare should be a safety net for when people are in between jobs or facing temporary hardship, not a lifestyle choice.


  • #58
    up for anything
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,791 ✭✭✭up for anything


    Triangla wrote: »
    I think the main vein of this thread is regarding those who we have all seen in tesco in the middle of the day pissed out of their heads buying more yet booze.

    I was renting in Dublin City centre for years and saw the same faces day in day out always locked and still always in and out of the local shops and off licence.

    If there was a way of controlling their spending dole money I for one think it should be looked at.

    Nobody benefits from letting young people ruin their lives by never entering the workforce and going though life pissing our and their own resources away.

    I would not like to see it for everyone on the dole of course, it's a terrible place to be for anyone. Humiliation will not benefit anyone, the dole is a horrible situation for anyone who wants a real shot at a good life as it is.

    It's just another topic of discussion on boards, don't take it personally.

    They are a minority of the people on social welfare in this country and yet seem to be regarded as the majority so any changes for them will affect the majority.

    I'm sorry if I'm taking it personally (I'm not really sorry) but when I see constant posts referring to scumbag social welfare addicts without a qualifying clause in the sentence, I can't help but take it personally. When I see a post implying that I am out of work because I spend time posting on boards, I can't help but take it personally too. In threads like this I find that people post truthfully therefore it reflects real opinion in RL which I find upsetting.


  • #59
    southsiderosie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,560 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    up for anything wrote: »
    They are a minority of the people on social welfare in this country and yet seem to be regarded as the majority so any changes for them will affect the majority.

    I'm sorry if I'm taking it personally (I'm not really sorry) but when I see constant posts referring to scumbag social welfare addicts without a qualifying clause in the sentence, I can't help but take it personally. When I see a post implying that I am out of work because I spend time posting on boards, I can't help but take it personally too. In threads like this I find that people post truthfully therefore it reflects real opinion in RL which I find upsetting.

    Given the demographics of boards, and especially this forum, there are a lot of posters who have never worked a full time job, never been responsible for trying to juggle bills and debt, don't have kids to feed, and in general don't have a fukcing clue about real life. So I wouldn't take it personally. ;)

    That said, I think that there are a lot of folks who struggle to pay their bills and greatly resent the culture of entitlement that is pervasive in some quarters. Watching what goes on in some parts of Dublin on a daily basis is enough to make anyone a social conservative!


  • #60
    thebigbiffo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,941 ✭✭✭thebigbiffo


    curlzy wrote: »
    Do you not think telling someone how to spend their money is infringing their dignity no? You don't think that telling someone "oh you're probably going to spend your children's food money on heroin so we're going to give you this little card instead of cash" is infringing their dignity and treating them like scum?

    I'm so sick of people acting like social welfare recipients are scumbag knackers.

    are you blind to the fact that people are screwing the dole!? simply stating that social welfare (tax money...which is tight in case you haven't noticed) should be spent responsibly and not wasted attracted the kind of vitriol you ranted in your post.

    why should it effect annybodies dignity? it's a f'uckin debit card we're talking about here, not a big neon sign over yer head that says 'knacker'!
    up for anything wrote: »
    This thread is the most evil, perverted nasty thread I have ever seen on boards.ie and most of the posters on it are worse than the so called scumbags. All of your worrying about the welfare of what you term scumbag kids is fake. You wouldn't refer to them as scumbag kids if you had one ounce of real concern. All you are worried about is what your hard earned tax money is being frittered away on. Well screw you and I hope to welcome you to the ever growing band of social welfare scum recipients one of these days - probably in January 2011.

    You make me sick! :mad:

    nice rant buddy. contribute anything to this discussion bar your b'ull****?


    R_H_C_P wrote: »
    Some people are getting €100 p/w and living at home. Does that mean they have to spend it all on food that they dont need?

    yes in fact, contributing all of it to the running of the house should certainly be where it's going. it certainly shouldnt be a social budget - it's a WELFARE allowance!! why is this so hard for people to grasp? oh yeah, shure aren't we entitled





    R_H_C_P wrote: »

    Essential purchases? What defines essential purchases?

    ya know, essential purposes, like what the dole was invented for? ya know, like food, clothing and stuff to ensure you dont end up a vagrant when you lose your job? i'm not saying everyone on the dole pisses their dole - but alot do, enough that measures should be taken to stop it.
    R_H_C_P wrote: »
    What about people paying morgages, need a car..
    etc. etc. In all fairness €200 a week isnt a whole lot given the high price of living here.

    and what about people 'paying mortgages, need a car'? for a start, i never suggested petrol wasnt an essential purchase and the mortgage would be sorted interest only anyway - as for the car loan, if you had one, give up the beer and fags and use the €50 cash toward it...because if your putting more than that out of dole money into it anyway it's already too much...

    look, for the record, i'm not tarring all SW recipients with the same brush: some of family and friends are on SW. but i recognise that alot of this money is being wasted in pubs, on drugs, in offy's, on fags, this is money the country (me, the taxpayer) doesnt have so you're going to have to excuse me if i have an opinion and a suggestion to change the society we live in...


  • Advertisement
  • #61
    up for anything
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,791 ✭✭✭up for anything


    thebigbiffo wrote: »


    nice rant buddy. contribute anything to this discussion bar your b'ull****?

    I'm not allowed to rant but you, as a tax paying citizen, are. Talk about a sense of entitlement.

    I'll contribute my absence so you can get on with your "some of my friends and family are bla..... oops that should read on social welfare" rant.

    Byeeeeee :D


Advertisement
Advertisement