5,000 Redundancies sought at HSE

fonecrusher1 · 01-11-2010 10:29PM

I'd like to know how many people were employed by the HSE in 1996/97. Pre Boom. Just to compare to the ridiculous amount now. Must have expanded by 25% at least in that time.

K-9 · 01-11-2010 10:39PM

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

I'd like to know how many people were employed by the HSE in 1996/97. Pre Boom. Just to compare to the ridiculous amount now. Must have expanded by 25% at least in that time.

Only have 2001-06, but it is shocking:
Irish Public Service 2001-2006: Salaries up 59%; Payroll up 18% - 38,000 workers and Pensions up 81.3%

Irish public service salaries have risen by 59% in the past five years and the payroll has expanded by 38,000 extra staff.
Increases in public sector over the period due to general rounds total €2,479m (or 24.3%), “special” pay increases (primarily Benchmarking) total €1,328m (or 13%), and other factors (such as extra numbers) total €2,193m (or 21.6%).
The increase in the average industrial wage for a male worker in the period 2001-2005, was 19%. The Exchequer’s annual wages and pensions bill increased sharply from €10.2 billion in 2001 to €16.2bn last year, with what has been termed "benchmarking" accounting for up to €1.32bn of the rise.

The number of public servants grew by 38,760, or 18%, since 2001 to 257,013 last January.

The education sector saw the biggest increase with pay costs rising by 65%. Health sector pay surged by 63% in the period, civil service salaries rose 48% and in the security sector they rose by 34.8%.

The average weekly earnings for non-health service public sector workers stood at €848 last September, according to the CSO.

This was above the €754 for the banking and insurance sector and €579 for industrial workers.

It's a good period because, remember this was all built on property windfall taxes, that have disappeared.

LarrytheLantern · 01-11-2010 10:40PM

Terry wrote: »

You do all know that this is to pay for NAMA, right?
That the knock-on effect will more than likely lead to strikes and more patients left on trollies.

But hey, you're all private sector workers who look down on those employed by the government because your taxes pay their wages, right?

Fúck the terminally ill and those needing emergency treatment. It's all about you and your disposable income.

In two months you will all be complaining about further rises on the live register and blaming the government for it, little realising how much of an effect this will have on the PPP of the country.

Praise Harney.

I disagree totally.
Many of these public servants (self servants more like) simply hide behind the old, the sick, the infirm, school children in order to sustain their bloated & protected status. As was pointed out this week, the overwhelming majority (95%) of the Dept. of Education budget goes not on schools, or on children, but on teacher's salaries & benefits.

These highly unionized self servants are desperate to protect themselves from the harsh reality of the economic disaster that has befallen us, and will cynically exploit the least able in society to do so. And when they feel they no longer can hide behind the old, sick & our school going children, then they will happily walk-out on them to further their aims.

Thankfully the public is beginning at last to seen through their self-serving agenda.

About time too!:mad:

K-9 · 01-11-2010 10:44PM

PS. The really frustrating thing is, a lot of good work was done with this money. Classroom and Special Needs Assistants in schools, better cancer treatment rates (despite the scandals) and great work on reducing Heart disease.

Stinicker · 01-11-2010 10:52PM

The entire HSE should go into liquidation and be given over at no cost to a private concern to run it as they see fit. Most middle class taxpayers in Ireland know the shambles the HSE is and thus are paying twice for a two tier health system, get rid of Public heathcare and let the market decide.

This just 5,000 redundancies in the HSE, what about all the excess fat in the civil service and in the other various public bodies, County Councils are laden with "jobs for the boys" when all maintenance should be privatised and roads would be actually be repaired properly and on time besides the sort of social employment enjoyed at present.

There needs to be at least 100,000 redundancies from state employment across the board be it HSE, Councils, or unnecessary quangos. Merge all county councils into provincial councils and outsource every single detail. Introduce anti-Union legislation and make joining a Union a sackable offence at the employers discretion.

fonecrusher1 · 01-11-2010 10:55PM

K-9 wrote: »

PS. The really frustrating thing is, a lot of good work was done with this money. Classroom and Special Needs Assistants in schools, better cancer treatment rates (despite the scandals) and great work on reducing Heart disease.

Yeah but the real work was probably done by a very small percentage of the health sector. Theres no way those sort of staff/salary increases are justified for low importance pencil pushers positions/document technicians (hey john, put that form over there will you?) & people pretending to do valued work.

Its disturbing how wreckless the government were with pay rises for the untouchable public service workforce.

Firefox11 · 01-11-2010 11:01PM

If they don't meet the 5000 target by the deadline, what happens then?? I assume it becomes compulsory then.

Stinicker · 01-11-2010 11:16PM

Firefox11 wrote: »

If they don't meet the 5000 target by the deadline, what happens then?? I assume it becomes compulsory then.

Compulsory is a word used in state employment very sparingly. Especially when it comes to actually doing any work. The morning solitare game on the pc is almost compulsory I beleive though as is elevenses, lunch, tea time and finishing work at 4pm.

perri winkles · 01-11-2010 11:18PM

I know I probably will get slated or slagged for saying this, but my dad works for the HSE and we are all terrified that he will have to take this "voluntary" redundancy.

He went back to college, worked his way up, from porter to a supervisor position and has been working in the same (small) hospital for 27 years. He certainly is not making big money as alot of people seem to think. They are struggling big time.

It is so distressing to read through this thread and see all the comments lumping all HSE workers together. I don't even know why Im leaving this comment, I certainly don't know enough about the current situation with the HSE to wade in and try defend it. It's just very very worrying

kraggy · 01-11-2010 11:24PM

kelle wrote: »

I doubt if HSE clerical officers earn €20k in 25 weeks - that's over €40k a year!

Anyway, interesting calculation considering a few I know have at least 30 years service and said they would take a good redundancy pakage if the opportunity arose!

I said after 5 years service, and also stated "not more than 20,000".

I was just talking ballpark figures and giving maximum numbers to show that, even if they get that much, it's still not worth leaving a solid job for it.

kraggy · 01-11-2010 11:26PM

Firefox11 wrote: »

If they don't meet the 5000 target by the deadline, what happens then?? I assume it becomes compulsory then.

The 5000 target isn't exact. They want to make savings of €400m so if loads of higher managment people with loads of service under their belt decide to go for early retirement/voluntary redundancy, then the figure will only have to be about 3000 staff.

It all depends on the mix of those who go for it.

Sardonicat · 01-11-2010 11:30PM

Something like this should have been undertaken when the HSE was established in 2004. What took them so long?

Rented Mule · 01-11-2010 11:32PM

Just send in the IMF already.

Close thread.

LarrytheLantern · 01-11-2010 11:50PM

Watch 'n wait as the unions start to squeal like scalded pigs, ably aided & abetted by their political allies in the Labour party (although silence from the latter might speak volumes). You wont be able to turn your bicycle on O'Connell Street for all the James Connolly wanabees doing the rounds.

They'll be telling us all how this is "an attack on the working classes" & how they are the only ones who will/can "protect the sick 'n elderly".

Does anyone realize the size of the salaries some of these down-trodden union leaders like Blair Horan or Jack O'Connor are enjoying? (not to mention their Fás fringe-benefits).:(

doleman2010 · 01-11-2010 11:51PM

About time but too little to late id say , what a bunch of overpaid slackers , the unions are at fault here also stopping change at every chance.
Where is Bertie now ? he was the one who gave all these muppets a free hand.
Wexford General hosp . 200 beds ___HAS over 1000 people on the payroll. with that level of staff we should have a Rolls royce health care standards .In stead we have to for settle third rate third world KIA standards.

K-9 · 02-11-2010 12:03AM

Sardonicat wrote: »

Something like this should have been undertaken when the HSE was established in 2004. What took them so long?

Bertie and the Unions agreed no redundancies from what? 11 Health Boards.

Sardonicat · 02-11-2010 12:11AM

K-9 wrote: »

Bertie and the Unions agreed no redundancies from what? 11 Health Boards.

Confused? Utterly bewildered, more like!

No redundancies, fine. But why replace staff that retire, or refill lower grades with people moving up the ladder (which presumably is why it's so engorged at upper managment level.)

The awful thing is, this was predicted when HSE was first established and no-one took a blind bit of notice.

The thing that is worrying me here is the "support staff" that are for the high jump. Does that mean care assistants, kithchen workers, laundry staff and cleaners?

Any HSE "support staff" here able to explain what that term means?

holystungun9 · 02-11-2010 12:25AM

galwayrush wrote: »

If it was a private company, a lot more that 5000 would have been sacked long ago.

Yep, and don't jump down my throat for paraphrasing Michael O Leary but he said in an interview with Ray D'Arcy that the problem with the TDs that make up our government is that none of them have run anything in their lives. There is a need for business savvy people, entrepreneurs etc in our government. Retired Teachers etc. only have so much experience.

FoxT · 02-11-2010 12:34AM

If the HSE has 100,000 on the payroll, then natural wastage will surely see them losing about 2500 people a year?

If that is the case, why pay people up to 2 years pay to leave now? Why not just sit back, let the 2,500 a year retire as normal, replace just say 4-500 of these, & watch the numbers fall?

- Doing this will take longer but cost about the same as early leavers now will receive up to 2 years pay
- It would allow the HSE to ramp down in an orderly fashion vs a big bang when they wake up 1 morning & suddenly find 5000 people gone.

Would take discipline though...Aha! maybe not so good after all...

Capt'n Midnight · 02-11-2010 12:53AM

€400 million / 5,000 = €80,000 and that's an average !!!

And it's being offered to people who are near retirement , sounds like there will be a lot of golden handshakes

please tell me that people with less than two years to go till retirement will be excluded form the scheme, but this is Ireland

and no doubt there will be a lot of last in , first out too because of unions , so tiny savings will be made at the cost of a lot of hardship

we are paying 7% a year on bonds

so while it might save €200m a year it will cost about €30m to service the debt so the savings won't appear until the middle of 2013

gizmo · 02-11-2010 01:04AM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

€400 million / 5,000 = €80,000 and that's an average !!!

The figure in the latest article is given as €200m from the 5,000 redundancies mentioned earlier. That makes it €40k on average which is far more reasonable sounding.

dotsman · 02-11-2010 01:23AM

Sardonicat wrote: »

The thing that is worrying me here is the "support staff" that are for the high jump. Does that mean care assistants, kithchen workers, laundry staff and cleaners?

Any HSE "support staff" here able to explain what that term means?

Not a HSE support staff myself, but my understanding is that the "support staff" are the back-end staff "supporting" the services - HR, IT, Legal, general management, marketing, PR etc. Probably a lot of job roles/titles that do very little for the overall running of things.

Paddy Samurai · 02-11-2010 01:24AM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

€400 million / 5,000 = €80,000 and that's an average !!!

And it's being offered to people who are near retirement , sounds like there will be a lot of golden handshakes

please tell me that people with less than two years to go till retirement will be excluded form the scheme, but this is Ireland

Yeah sounds like people due to retire next june,will get another two years salary lumpsum if they go six months early...before end of year.Does'nt make sense really.:(

Or have I got it wrong?.

Nightwish · 02-11-2010 01:42AM

Sardonicat wrote: »

The thing that is worrying me here is the "support staff" that are for the high jump. Does that mean care assistants, kithchen workers, laundry staff and cleaners?

Any HSE "support staff" here able to explain what that term means?

Support staff are catering, porters, health care assistants, domestics etc

BostonB · 02-11-2010 01:46AM

dotsman wrote: »

Not a HSE support staff myself, but my understanding is that the "support staff" are the back-end staff "supporting" the services - HR, IT, Legal, general management, marketing, PR etc. Probably a lot of job roles/titles that do very little for the overall running of things.

They are going to need support staff. its not like there won't be support staff. But theres no way you can merge all the health boards and not have duplication. My personal experience is there are useless people all over it, from doctors, nurses through to cleaning. I assume because the unions, protect them.

Capt'n Midnight · 02-11-2010 02:10AM

gizmo wrote: »

The figure in the latest article is given as €200m from the 5,000 redundancies mentioned earlier. That makes it €40k on average which is far more reasonable sounding.

At least one of us will need to read that article again

The Government has announced a €400 million voluntary redundancy and early retirement scheme for the Health Service Executive (HSE) which could see up to 5,000 staff leave the health service.
...
Expressing the hope up to €200 million of annual costs could be taken out of the health service, she said it would not be easy to deal with the aftermath of the staff departures but that she had "huge confidence" in the board of the HSE and new chief executive Cathal Magee.

Celly Smunt · 02-11-2010 02:13AM

over-work nurses,don't pay for proper maintenance,jack the cervical cancer vaccine,close down needed wards,under-staff doctors and try take a medical card off pensioners YET they still need 2000 HR positions :rolleyes:

Sardonicat · 02-11-2010 02:33AM

Nightwish wrote: »

Support staff are catering, porters, health care assistants, domestics etc

Not so good to be doing a clear out here, surely?

gizmo · 02-11-2010 03:28AM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

At least one of us will need to read that article again

I don't doubt the article is unclear on the figures, I'm just highlighting that the €200m figure seems more likely given a similar breakdown you gave above.

maninasia · 02-11-2010 03:45AM

My name is URL wrote: »

I agree completely. Just think it's a bit risky to do it now in one fell swoop, and just before Christmas. Really, it should have been an ongoing thing since the HSE replaced the regional Health Boards. Unions are as much to blame for that not happening as the government are though.. I wonder what they'll have to say about this.

Country is running out of money, need to borrow 5 billion or so by April 2011. They have been instructed by ECB to get some cuts in prior to new bond raising. They are desperate now as they put it off for so long, once more complete mismanagement of situation.

5,000 Redundancies sought at HSE

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