5,000 Redundancies sought at HSE

suitseir · 01-11-2010 07:23PM #1

Just listening to the news on RTE.....I can't believe that over 2,000 of these work in HR in the HSE.......the mind boggles!!!!! Must check up on the population number of this country again.......

My name is URL · 01-11-2010 07:33PM

wtf, they're only giving people 3 weeks to agree to voluntary redundency. I'm glad to see that they are eventually taking action against the bloated organisation but 5,000 laid off effectively overnight, and just before Christmas is going to have a major knock on effect on the rest of the economy

policarp · 01-11-2010 07:34PM

The one who should go first just got painted today...:D

Micky Dolenz · 01-11-2010 07:34PM

Why stop at 5000 though.

mox54 · 01-11-2010 07:36PM

these guys are not in the real world at all, 2000 in HR, for heavens sake that is madness and we're putting up with it!!:rolleyes:

123balltv · 01-11-2010 07:41PM

yeah all this before Christmas
they sure wont be spending much dosh even more jobs will be lost in retail :mad:

galwayrush · 01-11-2010 07:41PM

If it was a private company, a lot more that 5000 would have been sacked long ago.

_whiskers · 01-11-2010 07:46PM

Does anyone know the terms of the redundancy?

doolox · 01-11-2010 07:48PM

The HSE has something like 100,000 on the payroll so 2000 in HR may be reasonable especially since the sector is very complicated with agreements from many original hospitals and organisations still exist for existing staff.

Unlike what would happen in private organisations would just stick to a unified policy and pay rate for a given grade and type of worker and that would be that. PPARS failed because of the complexity of the pay roll system in the HSE. HR covers a lot more than pay so one can only imagine the complexity of other systems and policies etc.. in place.

The redundancy of 5,000 is only the beginning. Once the govt get their way with this package they will repeat it other public operations. Also a selloff of semistates is on the cards.

Mr McBoatface · 01-11-2010 07:49PM

Why give redundancy ? How many of those HR folks can't even use a PC ?

From what I've heard from some younger PS workers I how the amount of PS admin workers over the age of 40 that can't use a PC is staggering. Many of these have completed upskilling and received all sorts of bonus and payments for adopting new technology and yet they still can't use a PC .. just sack them.

gurramok · 01-11-2010 07:52PM

RTE say the HSE has 17,000 clerical and administrative grade staff and 11,000 support staff out of 108,000 in total.

my name is URL wrote:

but 5,000 laid off effectively overnight, and just before Christmas is going to have a major knock on effect on the rest of the economy

It should of been done 2 yrs ago but FF delayed the pain and look what sh1t we are in now.

fonecrusher1 · 01-11-2010 07:53PM

Its about time they culled a few thousand pencil pushers. People doing jobs a trained monkey could do & being paid 20k+ to do it.

Its the right decision. Jesus they actually did something right.

kraggy · 01-11-2010 07:53PM

There's not a hope in hell that they'll get 3000, never mind 5000, to leave.

If you've been working as a clerical officer for say, 5 years, you'd be entitled to:

3 weeks per years service + statutory (=2 weeks per year).

=> 5 weeks x 5 = 25 weeks pay

= no more than 20k.

No way I'd leave with only 20k in my pocket with the way things are.

I'd be holding on to that job with a tight grip.

My name is URL · 01-11-2010 07:58PM

gurramok wrote: »

RTE say the HSE has 17,000 clerical and administrative grade staff and 11,000 support staff out of 108,000 in total.

It should of been done 2 yrs ago but FF delayed the pain and look what sh1t we are in now.

I agree completely. Just think it's a bit risky to do it now in one fell swoop, and just before Christmas. Really, it should have been an ongoing thing since the HSE replaced the regional Health Boards. Unions are as much to blame for that not happening as the government are though.. I wonder what they'll have to say about this.

Snakeblood · 01-11-2010 08:07PM

My name is URL wrote: »

wtf, they're only giving people 3 weeks to agree to voluntary redundency. I'm glad to see that they are eventually taking action against the bloated organisation but 5,000 laid off effectively overnight, and just before Christmas is going to have a major knock on effect on the rest of the economy

This has been coming for some time, to be fair. It's not a surprise to people within the HSE.

fonecrusher1 · 01-11-2010 08:10PM

What exactly do they mean by rendundancies sought? They're seeking voluntary redundancies? What if everyone refuses? Will it just become government makes redundancies?!

Sure hardly no one is going to throw their hand up in the air & look to be out of a job a month & a half before christmas.

gurramok · 01-11-2010 08:12PM

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

What exactly do they mean by rendundancies sought? They're seeking voluntary redundancies? What if everyone refuses? Will it just become government makes redundancies?!

Sure hardly no one is going to throw their hand up in the air & look to be out of a job a month & a half before christmas.

The Croke Park deal says no compulsory redundancies or any paycuts. You get the drift

galwayrush · 01-11-2010 08:15PM

Hmm, who's pulling the strings now, FF and Hearney were never known for direct action , it should have been done years ago, way too many pen pushers in the HSE. This sudden direct action seems like the Government have been given an ultimatum by our new overlords, probably a warning that it will be the IMF doing the slashing if they don't start doing something about the stupid waste that has prevailed in recent years.

PeterIanStaker · 01-11-2010 08:19PM

I doubt the minister will be made redundant or suffer a pay cut.

Terry · 01-11-2010 08:21PM

You do all know that this is to pay for NAMA, right?
That the knock-on effect will more than likely lead to strikes and more patients left on trollies.

But hey, you're all private sector workers who look down on those employed by the government because your taxes pay their wages, right?

Fúck the terminally ill and those needing emergency treatment. It's all about you and your disposable income.

In two months you will all be complaining about further rises on the live register and blaming the government for it, little realising how much of an effect this will have on the PPP of the country.

Praise Harney.

gizmo · 01-11-2010 08:22PM

galwayrush wrote: »

Hmm, who's pulling the strings now, FF and Hearney were never known for direct action , it should have been done years ago, way too many pen pushers in the HSE. This sudden direct action seems like the Government have been given an ultimatum by our new overlords, probably a warning that it will be the IMF doing the slashing if they don't start doing something about the stupid waste that has prevailed in recent years.

It's not sudden, as was said above, it's been coming for quite some time.

On a side note, is it not highly ironic that people are delighted Harney got paint thrown at her for the planned cuts in the health sector yet on the same day, when the government look for €400m savings via redundancies in the HSE, people are saying it's about time?

Wertz · 01-11-2010 08:31PM

kraggy wrote: »

There's not a hope in hell that they'll get 3000, never mind 5000, to leave.

If you've been working as a clerical officer for say, 5 years, you'd be entitled to:

3 weeks per years service + statutory (=2 weeks per year).

=> 5 weeks x 5 = 25 weeks pay

= no more than 20k.

No way I'd leave with only 20k in my pocket with the way things are.

I'd be holding on to that job with a tight grip.

Whereas if the IMF or the stability fund enter the ring , the people getting made redundant could be getting SFA.
This voluntary scheme could be a canny move for some people depending on their personal circumstances.

Wertz · 01-11-2010 08:36PM

Terry wrote: »

You do all know that this is to pay for NAMA, right?
That the knock-on effect will more than likely lead to strikes and more patients left on trollies.

But hey, you're all private sector workers who look down on those employed by the government because your taxes pay their wages, right?

Fúck the terminally ill and those needing emergency treatment. It's all about you and your disposable income.

In two months you will all be complaining about further rises on the live register and blaming the government for it, little realising how much of an effect this will have on the PPP of the country.

Praise Harney.

When it's nurses, colsultants junior doctors, GPs and ambulance drivers getting the heave and not desk jockeys in some admin role, then I'll start worrying.
If the HSE can manage to drop 5000 or so workers in as little as two months, it surely begs the question as to what those 5K workers were doing that was so vital in the first place.

As for the timing...health budget ticks over on dec 31st...having these people off the payroll is a book balancing excersise...

fonecrusher1 · 01-11-2010 08:38PM

Terry wrote: »

You do all know that this is to pay for NAMA, right?
That the knock-on effect will more than likely lead to strikes and more patients left on trollies.

But hey, you're all private sector workers who look down on those employed by the government because your taxes pay their wages, right?

Fúck the terminally ill and those needing emergency treatment. It's all about you and your disposable income.

In two months you will all be complaining about further rises on the live register and blaming the government for it, little realising how much of an effect this will have on the PPP of the country.

Praise Harney.

So whats your solution? Forget about the redundancies, lets just keep things the way they are? I take your point about the possible knock on affects but maybe the remaining administrative staff will have to work harder.

There are too too many people on the HSE payroll. Its as simple as that.

kelle · 01-11-2010 08:41PM

kraggy wrote: »

There's not a hope in hell that they'll get 3000, never mind 5000, to leave.

If you've been working as a clerical officer for say, 5 years, you'd be entitled to:

3 weeks per years service + statutory (=2 weeks per year).

=> 5 weeks x 5 = 25 weeks pay

= no more than 20k.

No way I'd leave with only 20k in my pocket with the way things are.

I'd be holding on to that job with a tight grip.

I doubt if HSE clerical officers earn €20k in 25 weeks - that's over €40k a year!

Anyway, interesting calculation considering a few I know have at least 30 years service and said they would take a good redundancy pakage if the opportunity arose!

sollar · 01-11-2010 09:06PM

kelle wrote: »

I doubt if HSE clerical officers earn €20k in 25 weeks - that's over €40k a year!

Anyway, interesting calculation considering a few I know have at least 30 years service and said they would take a good redundancy pakage if the opportunity arose!

Its what they would be entitled to after their 5 years.

It could appeal to some who have been in 10 or 15 years they could take the redundancy money and go retrain as something else and try and re-enter the workforce in 4 or 5 years.

There is also plenty of people middle aged people in there with the kids raised mortgage paid ect who might want to take it easy.

Mary Harney also said that 1/3 of the 28000 are over 50.

dotsman · 01-11-2010 09:27PM

Terry wrote: »

You do all know that this is to pay for NAMA, right?

What? Really? OK, I'll believe you.

Actually, I've change my mind - I'm not going to believe this bull$hit? What the flying fcuk has this got to do with NAMA? Do you even understand what NAMA is and how it works? Are you not able to understand that we have been building up a massive budget deficit over the past 10 years by paying BS wages to do BS jobs that add no value to the public services? We had a property bubble cheered on by the people and championed by the government that masked all these issues. Now the the property taxes are gone. We have a massive hole to fill. Either cut back and introduce the concept of efficiencies to the Public sector or find someway of generating €15 Billion in extra taxes (considering many people are already taxed to the hilt, and many companies are up against the wall, I just don't see how you can come up with even €3 Billion in extra taxes, let alone 15).

Terry wrote: »

That the knock-on effect will more than likely lead to strikes and more patients left on trollies.

Yes, the unions will try and hurt as many of their hostages as possible. But the sooner the people of Ireland tell them to go fcuk themselves, the less damage we will have to suffer.

Terry wrote: »

But hey, you're all private sector workers who look down on those employed by the government because your taxes pay their wages, right?

No, in general I don't look down at public sector workers. I was one. Both my parents, before they retired, were. Many of my friends are public sector workers. I don not "look down on public sector workers". I do absolutely detest how the public sector handles recruitment, training, employee performance, remuneration, management, cost control etc, but have nothing against the people. Most people I know don't look down on public sector workers either. That's just the unions rambling on. The best way to get people in line is convince them that they are being attacked and that you will be their saviour.

Terry wrote: »

Fúck the terminally ill and those needing emergency treatment.

Ah, some good ol' socialist union mantra.

Terry wrote: »

It's all about you and your disposable income.

No, it' about square pegs and round holes. We do not have the money. We never had the money. We never will have the money. We can only pay what we can afford.

Terry wrote: »

In two months you will all be complaining about further rises on the live register and blaming the government for it, little realising how much of an effect this will have on the PPP of the country.

No, I'll be mainly blaming the unions and all those who support them.

Terry wrote: »

Praise Harney.

I'm afraid I can't. She was made minister for Health in 2004. She was suppose to reduce (eliminate was too unrealistic a task) the waste. Instead, she continued to bow to the unions, allowing the HSE become even further fubar'ed.

Typhoon. · 01-11-2010 09:28PM

This will benefit people who have close to full service (40 years)

do they leave on full pension and lump sum?

another bonus for them will be they will get out before the Gov announce they'l be taxing the retirement lump sum

so I think this is a good deal for people that are close to retirement anyway... and an even better deal if their given full pension and lump sum

K-9 · 01-11-2010 10:11PM

Terry wrote: »

You do all know that this is to pay for NAMA, right?

If only we could blame NAMA for it, but that really is head in the sand stuff.

Tax Revenue of about €32/33 Billion, Public Service pay of €18 Billion and Welfare of over €20 Billion.

We are borrowing €5/6 Billion just to pay people! That isn't counting services for the ill and costs of running hospitals for those emergency operations.

We can just keep borrowing? Right.

The Government is being charged 7% interest on bonds. They postponed bond auctions last month to avoid paying that but have to go to the markets in February. Unless something drastic isn't done, the rate could be 9/10%, like Greece and we need the IMF or ECB bail outs.

If that happens, 5,000 will just be the tip of the iceberg. These cuts will affect growth, no doubt about it, but what else can be done?

bonzos · 01-11-2010 10:20PM

What are the chances that some off the "top"pen pushers will be rehired in some form or other after they get their lump sum

galwayrush · 01-11-2010 10:22PM

bonzos wrote: »

What are the chances that some off the "top"pen pushers will be rehired in some form or other after that get their lump sum

Of course they will, esp if they are FF supporters.:rolleyes:

5,000 Redundancies sought at HSE

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