Over 3000 returning Irish being refused the dole.

Ghandee · 28-10-2010 05:14PM

Nodin wrote: »

....but Nigerians and Poles don't automatically get payments, because they wouldn't satisfy the habitual residence requirement and they don't have stamps....your post makes no sense.

Just out of interest.
Can an Irish person return to Ireland and claim asylum, you know, if he'd been refused dole?

Nodin · 28-10-2010 05:17PM

Gucky wrote: »

Just out of interest.
Can an Irish person return to Ireland and claim asylum, you know, if he'd been refused dole?

Can a pole?

Heres something to consider - if two people walk up to a hatch, and the person behind the hatch abuses the second person, the way to deal with the problem isn't to start giving the first person a hard time....

Ghandee · 28-10-2010 05:26PM

Nodin wrote: »

Can a pole?

Heres something to consider - if two people walk up to a hatch, and the person behind the hatch abuses the second person, the way to deal with the problem isn't to start giving the first person a hard time....

I gave NO ONE a hard time, Pole, Nigerian, gay eskimo, straight mongol!
I've questioned if its right that an Irish person, especially people who have simply left the country (some for 18 months) get refused assistance by the state!

Nodin · 28-10-2010 05:31PM

Gucky wrote: »

I gave NO ONE a hard time, Pole, Nigerian, gay eskimo, straight mongol!

Then why o why o why did you mention poles, nigerians and seeking asylum?

Gucky wrote: »

I've questioned if its right that an Irish person, especially people who have simply left the country (some for 18 months) get refused assistance by the state!

.....not really, but anyhoo - They aren't, as far as I can ascertain, entirely refused assistance. They are refused that particular benefit and instead have to go to the HSE.

OutlawPete · 28-10-2010 05:32PM

Saadyst wrote: »

I never put the word in bold :P

Oops. sorry about that

Nodin wrote: »

....but Nigerians and Poles don't automatically get payments, because they wouldn't satisfy the habitual residence requirement and they don't have stamps....your post makes no sense.

I was referring to the attitude, not necessarily the specifics.

I remember arguments over whether foreign nationals should get dole payments and people where very quick to label others racists when they said no, they shouldn't.

People are now very quick to say, why should Irish people just get it payments when they have not contributed.

As someone pointed out, it's all neither here nor there as supplementary payments are there for anyone if they need them.

TwoShedsJackson · 28-10-2010 05:40PM

ilovefridays wrote: »

how come foreigners can move to this country and go straight to the dole office and get looked after.

They can't.

they never paid a stamp in their life, yet they just jump of the plane/boat head to the local sw office and claim for everything.

They don't.

But yet our own get turned away

If they haven't been paying taxes here.

me and my hubby are killing ourselves get up early every morning for work to pay our mortgage and bills, and there's our next door neighbours, married with a couple of kids, sitting at home all day, neither of them work, they have a nice car each, social are paying the rent on their houses. they have 2 holidays a year back to their home country. They have told us before 'why should we work, we're better off not working'. this pisses me off, kids are always well dressed , have the best of everything. I don't blame these foreigners, i blame the irish government for encouraging it.
This is my personal opinion

Did the foreigners make you buy a house and get a mortgage?

What they do with their lives is their own business, why don't you get on with your own life and stop doing what half the $hitehawks in this country are doing, which is passing the buck for their own bad decisions and anything bad that happens to them on to 'the foreigners'

wush06 · 28-10-2010 05:57PM

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

But the children of Polish worker here get childrens allowance when they may be actually living Poland.

It's not just the polish people. I don't think they can even track the people that left the country.

Ghandee · 28-10-2010 06:45PM

Nodin wrote: »

Then why o why o why did you mention poles, nigerians and seeking asylum ?

I didn't, where?

tough__cookie · 28-10-2010 06:56PM

I saved up and took a year off work to go to Australia. I returned home after 8 months, I tried to claim the dole until my job would take me back and it took the social welfare over two months to tell me that I wasn't entitled to anything. If it wasn't for my mother I don't know what I would have done.

The thing that annoyed me was that I have always worked and paid taxes and then there are people I know that couldn't be bothered to even look for a job and they are on the dole for years with no questions asked

PanchoVilla · 28-10-2010 06:57PM

seamus wrote: »

And? Does their citizenship confer on them an automatic right to state aid? You wouldn't go to a different country if you didn't have a job there, why would you come home under the same circumstances?

Get rid of this entitlement lark. They left and haven't been paying taxes here. They have no entitlement to anything just by virtue of where they happened to be born.

My cousin has been working and paying tax since he left secondary school, he's now 26. A little over a year ago he decided to head to Australia for a working holiday, he was gone for a year and came back when his visa expired. Luckily he found a job as an orderly in a nursing home when he came back, if he hadn't he'd be fúcked.

This country has gone to shít because of an ineffectual government who are more concerned with their pensions than the welfare of our society, yet we blame the people who had nothing to do with creating this mess in the first place. I honestly feel bad for these people who come home only to be told they are not welcome.

whydoibother? · 28-10-2010 07:07PM

Yeah, I can't really explain why the number 3000 would seem so low if all those who went on working holiday visas are in the same boat. My only guesses are that since the recession is about 2 years old now, the trend of coming back to nothing hasn't really kicked in yet, or possibly those who have the travel bug and have continued on elsewhere once the relevant visa expired, or been super-lucky and gotten jobs, though I did hear of one case of a girl who was decided to sign on for a month or something when she went home for a visit after 6 or 8 months or whatever and then back to Oz. I don't agree with it, but I find it hard to judge under the circumstances.

whydoibother? · 28-10-2010 07:09PM

Another idea - many of the visa jobs can lead to sponsorship by an employer if you're good, which will get you permanent residency. But that's slightly unsettling too, as we don't want all these skilled people gone forever.

28-10-2010 07:18PM

I can understand the view that someone didnt pay taxes here in so many years so they shouldnt get the dole - but bear in mind that they didnt stay here and claim the dole either.

I dont understand how after 10 or 20 years you could expect dole when you come back but after a year or two in Australia when you could have been on the dole here is different. Maybe it should be halved if you return after a year abroad and then less again after the second year and so on until 3 or 4 years then cut if off?? Reasonable?

Nodin · 28-10-2010 07:32PM

Gucky wrote: »

I didn't, where?

In your head. And I have the telepathic records to prove it.

(my bad there, soz)

JONJO THE MISER · 28-10-2010 07:47PM

Ive warned people about this over on the Aus forum last year, people go away for 2 years travelling and then they get a fright when they cant claim the dole when they get .

Mister men · 28-10-2010 07:53PM

ilovefridays wrote: »

how come foreigners can move to this country and go straight to the dole office and get looked after. they never paid a stamp in their life, yet they just jump of the plane/boat head to the local sw office and claim for everything. But yet our own get turned away

me and my hubby are killing ourselves get up early every morning for work to pay our mortgage and bills, and there's our next door neighbours, married with a couple of kids, sitting at home all day, neither of them work, they have a nice car each, social are paying the rent on their houses. they have 2 holidays a year back to their home country. They have told us before 'why should we work, we're better off not working'. this pisses me off, kids are always well dressed , have the best of everything. I don't blame these foreigners, i blame the irish government for encouraging it.
This is my personal opinion

Agreed. It's a disgrace.

The Waltzing Consumer · 28-10-2010 07:59PM

tough__cookie wrote: »

I saved up and took a year off work to go to Australia. I returned home after 8 months, I tried to claim the dole until my job would take me back and it took the social welfare over two months to tell me that I wasn't entitled to anything. If it wasn't for my mother I don't know what I would have done.

The thing that annoyed me was that I have always worked and paid taxes and then there are people I know that couldn't be bothered to even look for a job and they are on the dole for years with no questions asked

If you were not entitled to it, that means you did not have enough PRSI contributions paid, so this "I have always worked and paid taxes" is nonsense. You were only gone for eight months. It sounds like most of this post is just made up.

Plus it really is funny people saving up, quitting their jobs, going travelling, then expect the state to pay you when you get home like they were your parents. But like I said, the story is nice and funny but BS

whydoibother? · 28-10-2010 08:16PM

It's absolutely idiotic to suggest that someone who goes abroad for a relatively short period should be refused anything when they come back. Think about what happens then. These people go to work abroad fairs, are told about the opportunity of going abraod, are strictly warned that there are no guarantees of further visas, though they might be able to get them. They are told that when they come back there is no guarantee of support in Ireland, so worst case scenario, they have no income whatsoever. Then what happens, our "safety-valve" of emigration is gone because they refuse to go, unemployment up, government borrowing up, debt up, poetential for economic growth down, cycle goes on and on... one step closer to IMF.

El Horseboxo · 28-10-2010 08:41PM

One of my mates has paid taxes since his first job at 16 and actually had a good high paying job during the good times so his taxes would have been high. Then came the recession and he was told he would have to be let go or they could offer him a position in Canada. He went to Canada and worked there for almost a year. He found out his mother has cancer and quit the job in Canada to come back and look after her. He's been home since mid July and he still hasn't recieved a penny. I know that isn't everyone's circumstance and his situation is probably unique compared to the 3000 referenced. But it's a fúcking joke. Around 11 or so months gone and he's told he surrendered his entitlements. Well he hasn't actually been told anything yet. Disgraceful.

The Waltzing Consumer · 28-10-2010 08:44PM

El Horseboxo wrote: »

One of my mates has paid taxes since his first job at 16 and actually had a good high paying job during the good times so his taxes would have been high. Then came the recession and he was told he would have to be let go or they could offer him a position in Canada. He went to Canada and worked there for almost a year. He found out his mother has cancer and quit the job in Canada to come back and look after her. He's been home since mid July and he still hasn't recieved a penny. I know that isn't everyone's circumstance and his situation is probably unique compared to the 3000 referenced. But it's a fúcking joke. Around 11 or so months gone and he's told he surrendered his entitlements. Well he hasn't actually been told anything yet. Disgraceful.

I don't understand this. You are saying this guy has been waiting over eleven months for an answer. Which social welfare office is he going to?

El Horseboxo · 28-10-2010 09:07PM

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

I don't understand this. You are saying this guy has been waiting over eleven months for an answer. Which social welfare office is he going to?

No. 11 months gone is referring to how long he was out of the country. He's been back since July at some stage and applied as soon as he got back. It's the Finglas office.

The Waltzing Consumer · 28-10-2010 09:15PM

El Horseboxo wrote: »

No. 11 months gone is referring to how long he was out of the country. He's been back since July at some stage and applied as soon as he got back. It's the Finglas office.

Ah okay, well presuming he got all the forms and stuff handed in by end of July, the longest should be two months after that. He needs to be back there finding out exactly what has happened.

He was only gone for a year so his prsi payments should be there and he should have no problem getting the dole. Just needs to motivate some lazy person in that office to process the claim.

dave45dave · 28-10-2010 10:05PM

Think you might be a bit wrong there , im not sure. I paid prsi for 21 years and went away for 3. Im still waiting to be assessed nearly 20 weeks. Not a penny. Cant get through to sw office in the town. Thank god for cash work other wise id be snookered.

scorpioishere · 28-10-2010 10:15PM

Am so so happy with that decision.

dave45dave · 28-10-2010 10:25PM

Well im not too pushed, ive waited this long, if i get it its a bonus, if not im still getting by

The Waltzing Consumer · 28-10-2010 10:45PM

dave45dave wrote: »

Think you might be a bit wrong there , im not sure. I paid prsi for 21 years and went away for 3. Im still waiting to be assessed nearly 20 weeks. Not a penny. Cant get through to sw office in the town. Thank god for cash work other wise id be snookered.

20 weeks?? What the hell? Again, find out what the hell is going on in that office, even in the bizarre case that you are refused, you should still be told pronto.

Imagine getting that 20 back weeks in the post office the first week, that would be a lot of money!

Dj · 29-10-2010 12:12AM

seamus wrote: »

And? Does their citizenship confer on them an automatic right to state aid? You wouldn't go to a different country if you didn't have a job there, why would you come home under the same circumstances?

Get rid of this entitlement lark. They left and haven't been paying taxes here. They have no entitlement to anything just by virtue of where they happened to be born.

What about someone coming out of Mountjoy Prison after doing a 10 year stretch. Are they entitled to job seekers? Have they paid their taxes?

After the tax payer has paid €77,222 per prisoner per year to keep them locked up.

In other words if you if try to emigrate to find a better life don't bother coming home if it doesn't work out, we'll look after the crooks instead.

jackiebaron · 29-10-2010 12:34AM

elviscostello wrote: »

Sorry, maybe you took that up as I was stating a fact. Even though there are laws in place, I was merely stating my opinion that they don't deserve to be entitled to claim after coming back.

I've had a tough ride over the past few years here. I could have taken the opportunity to sail off in to the sunset and come back when things improved.

I don't think they should be able to wander back in and claim straight away. Stick it out here if you want to claim. Or bring back some money from your little adventure.

Whoa! Your "OPINION" ??
Since when did that govern things?
A man/woman works in Ireland, loses their job and decides to continue to be a productive member of society (albeit another society) by leaving the country to work elsewhere. Instead of (I would imagine these would be your words) SPONGING off the State teat, they go away and continue to work....WORK!!! When that finally dries up whether it be plastering walls in Abu-Dhabi or chopping wood in Canada or teaching English in Seoul they return....NOT SWANNING BACK AFTER SMOKING A TONNE of weed in Goa, as you seem to imply...you are happy to stand by your angle that their mother country owes them NOTHING??

What if they just sat around and claimed instead of "sailing off into the sunset" ?
Would you be fine with that or would you call them a bunch of freeloading rats?

Pretty piss-poor take on your part pal.

Swanning back!!! Sailing off into the sunset!!!

Fcuks sake!

brendansmith · 29-10-2010 01:04AM

FFS people who left Ireland in the last 2 years to find work are doing so to get a job elsewhere having been let go and unable to find another job in Ireland and therefore had been paying taxes up to that point but dont wish to claim the dole. This is good for the Irish economy because they have given but are not taking from the tax revenue, do you understand that much?

The only reson they are going home is because their visa has run out and have no other option.

There seems to be the idea on here that people who stay in Ireland claiming the dole are heros and they are persevering and staying loyal. What nonsense. They are the ones who cant leave because they took out mortgages and contributed to the whole mess in the first place.

Faith+1 · 29-10-2010 01:43AM

brendansmith wrote: »

They are the ones who can leave because they took out mortgages and contributed to the whole mess in the first place.

If they have a morgage they can't simply up sticks and leave. If they do their credit rating is destroyed.

Secondly they're the same people who paid €400k for a house in the back ass of no where under the pretense that it was a sound investment. The exact same investment that is only worth €150k and leaves them in negative equity.

I think the average wage slave has suffered enough without being reminded of their mistakes.

Over 3000 returning Irish being refused the dole.

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