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pensioners to loose out

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2

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    #32
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    Pocketfizz wrote: »
    Not all pensioners are wealthy though, my father is getting f**k all. After working 40 years of his life he gets screwed by the job he was in. I'm not saying that they're all poor either I am just stating that not every pensioner are stinking rich.

    No they're not all rich far from it. However the state pension allows for a decent standard of living, so while pensioners are not rich, they're not poor either. No one will be destitute with a 5% cut.


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    #33
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    Goldenegg wrote: »
    I think it is completely unjust to tax oaps. These people worked their arses off for 40+ years, paid their taxes and now should be their time to relax a little bit. 220 euro (or whatever the amount is) is not an awful lot to live on when you consider utility bills, grocery shopping etc.

    Cowen and Lenihan should have a little look over the water to England and take a leave out of their book. State cars should be abolished with the exception of maybe 1 or 2 for state affairs. These polititions should walk / drive / cycle to work like everyone else and should be on an average wage.

    They don't have utility bills, or medical or mortgages by and large! Groceries, clothes and a holiday can all be easily afforded under the current regime.


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    #34
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    gurramok wrote: »
    Thought the total social welfare bill was about 22bn?

    Anyway yes, if a person with the above criteria as oppenheimer1 described cannot live on it, there is seriously something wrong somewhere. And many pensioners have pensions from when they worked to add to their weekly state pension income.

    Possibly you're right, I was using the figures for the 2010 budget allocated to the dept of social protection. Some social welfare costs come out of the health budget.


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    #35
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    The non contributory pension is about €230 afaik. They will get a council house if their own is unfit for habitation. They get free telephone, medical, transport, tv licence and electricity as well as a winter fuel allowance. They don't have loans and by and large their children are self supporting at that stage. Are you really suggesting that €225 isn't enough to feed and clothe a person?

    The Pension makes up €4bn (possibly more) of the €13bn total social welfare bill afaik.

    €219, according to the Department of Social Protection, moving to €229 from 80 upwards so that's fair enough. A lot of the other benefits are for over the age of 70.

    I wasn't saying that it was a giant cut and tbh, I probably wouldn't have reacted so strongly, were it not for the glee the OP took in the proposal.


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    #36
    Goldenegg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 352 ✭✭Goldenegg


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    They don't have utility bills, or medical or mortgages by and large! Groceries, clothes and a holiday can all be easily afforded under the current regime.

    And you know this how? My parents are pensioners. They dont have medical cards. My mother is on medication which costs her 100 euro per week which then leaves her with little over 100 for the rest. They have to pay their phone bill and esb like everyone else.


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    #37
    goose2005
    Registered Users Posts: 4,798 ✭✭✭goose2005


    Millicent wrote: »
    So let's punish them for the frugality of their youth and buying and paying off properties they could afford? Have I got the gist of that right?

    No, punish them for voting for de Valera and Haughey, and for obeying the church their whole lives.

    Goldenegg wrote: »
    I think it is completely unjust to tax oaps. These people worked their arses off for 40+ years, paid their taxes and now should be their time to relax a little bit. 220 euro (or whatever the amount is) is not an awful lot to live on when you consider utility bills, grocery shopping etc.

    Cowen and Lenihan should have a little look over the water to England and take a leave out of their book. State cars should be abolished with the exception of maybe 1 or 2 for state affairs. These polititions should walk / drive / cycle to work like everyone else and should be on an average wage.
    Doesn't the British royal family get about £10m per annum? Hardly the sort of thing we want FF to see.


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    #38
    Asphyxia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,740 ✭✭✭Asphyxia


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    The non contributory pension is about €230 afaik. They will get a council house if their own is unfit for habitation. They get free telephone, medical, transport, tv licence and electricity as well as a winter fuel allowance. They don't have loans and by and large their children are self supporting at that stage. Are you really suggesting that €225 isn't enough to feed and clothe a person?

    The Pension makes up €4bn (possibly more) of the €13bn total social welfare bill afaik.

    €225 is more than enough to feed and clothe "one" person but my father has a wife who only gets one payment of Children's Allowance a month and kids which are under 16, he is still paying off his mortgage and was cut off the house hold benefit scheme the other month so doesn't receive any free telephone, medical, transport, tv licence, electricity or fuel allowance. You are placing all pensioners into the same line which is ridiculous because not all of them are getting the same.


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    #39
    Mr. Loverman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,001 ✭✭✭Mr. Loverman


    Dean09 wrote: »
    *Lose

    ..........just saying........

    There are only three dots in an ellipsis.

    Just sayin'... :)


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    #40
    smk89
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,163 ✭✭✭smk89


    phasers wrote: »
    "I couldn't keep my dog"
    -pfft, Dog food is 30c a pop in aldi

    "I had to give up my car"
    -Good.

    "IT'S COLD AND THERE ARE WOLVES AFTER ME"

    Damn old people

    It stinks of this one from america a few months ago http://youtu.be/Wp76ly2_NoI


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    #41
    DOC09UNAM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,305 ✭✭✭DOC09UNAM


    pensioners are already loose.


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    #42
    Goldenegg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 352 ✭✭Goldenegg


    goose2005 wrote: »

    Doesn't the British royal family get about £10m per annum? Hardly the sort of thing we want FF to see.

    I was talking about the ideas of cameron.


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    #43
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Pocketfizz wrote: »
    €225 is more than enough to feed and clothe "one" person but my father has a wife who only gets one payment of Children's Allowance a month and kids which are under 16, he is still paying off his mortgage and was cut off the house hold benefit scheme the other month so doesn't receive any free telephone, medical, transport, tv licence, electricity or fuel allowance. You are placing all pensioners into the same line which is ridiculous because not all of them are getting the same.

    Hold on, your father(a pensioner) has kids under 16?:eek:
    Goldenegg wrote: »
    And you know this how? My parents are pensioners. They dont have medical cards. My mother is on medication which costs her 100 euro per week which then leaves her with little over 100 for the rest. They have to pay their phone bill and esb like everyone else.

    Every pensioner is entitled to the medicial card. Why haven't they got one?


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    #44
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    Goldenegg wrote: »
    And you know this how? My parents are pensioners. They dont have medical cards. My mother is on medication which costs her 100 euro per week which then leaves her with little over 100 for the rest. They have to pay their phone bill and esb like everyone else.

    Your parents aren't claiming all the benefits they're entitled too then. The drugs payment scheme limits the amount a resident pays in Ireland for medication to €120 per month.

    Phone and ESB, have the standing charge + a unit allowance paid for by the dept of social protection.


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    #45
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    goose2005 wrote: »
    No, punish them for voting for de Valera and Haughey, and for obeying the church their whole lives.

    Only in AH would that be considered a response! :pac: For the record though, my Granddad hated Dev and Haughey. Might go ask my Nan how she feels about any of this generation who voted for Bertie etc. Ye know, just for an equality of argument.


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    #46
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    Pocketfizz wrote: »
    €225 is more than enough to feed and clothe "one" person but my father has a wife who only gets one payment of Children's Allowance a month and kids which are under 16, he is still paying off his mortgage and was cut off the house hold benefit scheme the other month so doesn't receive any free telephone, medical, transport, tv licence, electricity or fuel allowance. You are placing all pensioners into the same line which is ridiculous because not all of them are getting the same.

    Your father was 47 when he had a child?


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    #47
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,966 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    down a fiver ?

    If the pension had been index linked then they'd be down about the same anyway


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    #48
    super_furry
    Registered Users Posts: 27,322 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    Means test it. Simple.


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    #49
    Asphyxia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,740 ✭✭✭Asphyxia


    gurramok wrote: »
    Hold on, your father(a pensioner) has kids under 16?:eek:

    My mother is only 48 my father is 66.


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    #50
    Asphyxia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,740 ✭✭✭Asphyxia


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    Your father was 47 when he had a child?

    Yes and...


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    #51
    Mr. Loverman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,001 ✭✭✭Mr. Loverman


    Pocketfizz wrote: »
    Yes and...

    I think they're just impressed he can get a boner at that age.

    You're thinking about your dad's boner now, aren't you


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    #52
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Pocketfizz wrote: »
    My mother is only 48 my father is 66.

    Ok, they are not a typical pensioner couple. You had said that his wife was only entitled to the 'childrens allowance'. How is that? Is she available to work?

    Also, why has your father still got a mortgage at 66? What was he thinking considering thats the retirement age?:eek:


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    #53
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    Pocketfizz wrote: »
    Yes and...

    Surely he would have thought of the ramifications of supporting a young person through their teens and possibly university and planned accordingly, because 16 years ago the state pension wasn't that generous. To expect it would have become so would have been an almighty gamble.


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    #54
    NinjaTruncs
    Registered Users Posts: 2,474 ✭✭✭NinjaTruncs


    Millicent wrote: »
    So let's punish them for the frugality of their youth and buying and paying off properties they could afford? Have I got the gist of that right?
    Are you retarded? Because your argument sure is!
    If the pensioners you speak of bought their property in the last few years your argument could hold water, but the vast majority of pensioners bought their homes decades ago and have them paid off, not due to their huge incomes, but because time has passed (like what will happen to our generation) and they paid off their mortgages.

    4.3kWp South facing PV System. South Dublin



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    #55
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    NinjaTruncs wrote: »
    Are you retarded? Because your argument sure is!
    If the pensioners you speak of bought their property in the last few years your argument could hold water, but the vast majority of pensioners bought their homes decades ago and have them paid off, not due to their huge incomes, but because time has passed (like what will happen to our generation) and they paid off their mortgages.

    Yeah, less of the personal attacks there keyboard warrior. What's your point besides trying to insult me? I'm aware of how house purchases work.


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    #56
    Goldenegg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 352 ✭✭Goldenegg


    gurramok wrote: »
    Every pensioner is entitled to the medicial card. Why haven't they got one?
    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    Your parents aren't claiming all the benefits they're entitled too then. The drugs payment scheme limits the amount a resident pays in Ireland for medication to €120 per month.

    Phone and ESB, have the standing charge + a unit allowance paid for by the dept of social protection.

    If im being completely honest with you, I don't know the reason why. I know that when my mam retired her pension was messed up within her company.

    I just think we can't put every pensioner into the same catagory of drinking every hour of the day in the pub etc. Most pensioners really rely on their state pension. I will admit, some can survive better than others. ( I will probably be eaten for this comment). We will all be old some day and claiming our pensions which we have worked long and hard for. I think they should be left alone in this coming budget and as I previously stated, I think the government should have a look closer to home ( within Leinster House), and come down a peg or two in regards to their own wages and perks.


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    #57
    Asphyxia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,740 ✭✭✭Asphyxia


    gurramok wrote: »
    Ok, they are not a typical pensioner couple. You had said that his wife was only entitled to the 'childrens allowance'. How is that? Is she available to work?

    Also, why has your father still got a mortgage at 66? What was he thinking considering thats the retirement age?:eek:

    My mother is sadly not able to work and after constant phone calls to different places they just keep saying she isn't entitled to anything else. My father was forced into retirement at 57 due to heart problems after he spent 40 years paying into a pension with them they wouldn't pay it out. As for the mortgage there is still a few months on it left that's all.


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    #58
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    You think Millicent's arguments are retarded? Eh... have a look at some of the stuff on this thread she's (eloquently) refuted...


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    #59
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    Dudess wrote: »
    You think Millicent's arguments are retarded? Eh... have a look at some of the stuff on this thread she's (eloquently) refuted...

    Aw! Thanks Dudess. :) I have the warm and fuzzies now.


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    #60
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Raar! Down girl! :pac:


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    #61
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    Goldenegg wrote: »
    If im being completely honest with you, I don't know the reason why. I know that when my mam retired her pension was messed up within her company.

    I just think we can't put every pensioner into the same catagory of drinking every hour of the day in the pub etc. Most pensioners really rely on their state pension. I will admit, some can survive better than others. ( I will probably be eaten for this comment). We will all be old some day and claiming our pensions which we have worked long and hard for. I think they should be left alone in this coming budget and as I previously stated, I think the government should have a look closer to home ( within Leinster House), and come down a peg or two in regards to their own wages and perks.

    I agree that they should look closer to home and cut their own very generous entitlements but the problem is as you know ultimately the total amount spent on the oireachtas is quite small in the grand scheme of things. The amount spent on social welfare is very large however and a small percentage cut could knock a billion off the amount we have to borrow.

    Its a common misconception that you work for 40 years to earn the state pension. You don't. People that are working now are paying for the current bunch of pensioners. The public pension scheme is not like the private one, its not a savings and payout one.

    Everyone is entitled to be part of the drug refund scheme, its a universal benefit. No one should be spending €400 a month on drugs.


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