pensioners to loose out

Voltex

Just looking at the evening hearld and the main shock and awe story was the "unbelieveable" story that pensioners are going to be hit in the budget. When i read a bit more it would seem that the propsal is for a 2.5% reduction...equal to on average €5 p/w.

Now..call me mean spirited or what...but sod em!!
They in general dont have mortgages...kids to bring up...pensions to pay for!!
Im all for a social welfare society....but lets face facts here. For Ireland to recover we need to get middle Ireland spending again and to expect the likes of the old age pensioner to get away scot free is bolli x quite frankly!!

MagicMarker

I think we should make Logan's Run a reality, but increase the age by 50 years or so.

flutered

quite a lot of pensioners are from the ps, their pensions have never been taxed.

El Guapo!

*Lose















..........just saying........

Chucky the tree

They'll be dead soon enough as well, **** 'em.

Millicent

Voltex wrote: »

Just looking at the evening hearld and the main shock and awe story was the "unbelieveable" story that pensioners are going to be hit in the budget. When i read a bit more it would seem that the propsal is for a 2.5% reduction...equal to on average €5 p/w.

Now..call me mean spirited or what...but sod em!!
They in general dont have mortgages...kids to bring up...pensions to pay for!!
Im all for a social welfare society....but lets face facts here. For Ireland to recover we need to get middle Ireland spending again and to expect the likes of the old age pensioner to get away scot free is bolli x quite frankly!!

So let's punish them for the frugality of their youth and buying and paying off properties they could afford? Have I got the gist of that right?

Voltex

Chucky the tree wrote: »

They'll be dead soon enough as well, **** 'em.

not if we keep giving them the equivalent to my total tax deduction each week. If i was getting that much just for being old, Id try hanging round for a while longer...just for a laugh!!
anyway...what do they contribute?
Iknow a couple of them and all they do is drink their pension...every day.

admiralofthefleet

bloody coffin dodging, oxygen thieving bastards them pensioners, smell like glue too

MagicMarker

Voltex wrote: »

not if we keep giving them the equivalent to my total tax deduction each week. If i was getting that much just for being old, Id try hanging round for a while longer...just for a laugh!!
anyway...what do they contribute?
Iknow a couple of them and all they do is drink their pension...every day.

What do they contribute?

Hmmm, I dunno... Maybe 40 years of taxes?

I don't think anyone should be spared in the cuts but let's not talk silly talk.

galwayrush

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

bloody coffin dodging, oxygen thieving bastards them pensioners, smell like glue too

Are you quoting one of Mary Hearney's well paid advisors....:rolleyes:

Voltex

Millicent wrote: »

So let's punish them for the frugality of their youth and buying and paying off properties they could afford? Have I got the gist of that right?

right lets get a few points staright...its the state pension we're on about here.
One example i know of is a woman who is 68. never worked a day in her entire life...has her council house well paid for. i think she forked out €18 per week for it. Has her daughter living with her who takes care of all the bills. She basically hands over her entire pension to the local pub owner each week.

SEPT 23 1989

If these old boys are so great why was the country bollixed till the mid 90's?

take everything off them i say

Voltex

MagicMarker wrote: »

What do they contribute?

Hmmm, I dunno... Maybe 40 years of taxes?

I don't think anyone should be spared in the cuts but let's not talk silly talk.

and what did they get in return??
40 years of social democracy!!
when they dialled 999..they got emergeny response
when they put their bins out they got collected
when they went walking on the streets they had street lights
when they turned on their taps they got water....

...all the stuff we are looking at having to pay extra for.

Asphyxia

My dad still has a mortgage and kids in the household under 18 so not "all" old aged pensioners have nothing to pay for, he was already cut a few times and has been struggling with so anymore cuts would be really hard for him. Anybody claiming unnecessary benefits should be cut, I know a girl who rakes in over 500 quid a week and her husband could get anything from a grand up a week and she still claims Children's Allowance among other things. It just isn't right.

Millicent

Voltex wrote: »

right lets get a few points staright...its the state pension we're on about here.
One example i know of is a woman who is 68. never worked a day in her entire life...has her council house well paid for. i think she forked out €18 per week for it. Has her daughter living with her who takes care of all the bills. She basically hands over her entire pension to the local pub owner each week.

Anecdotal evidence is not the way to win an argument. That one woman is not indicative of every pensioner in the country.

You know how many pensioners I've met who have been the opposite? Tons. I saw it from retail -- the ones who would collect old receipts just to get the few points from them to the ones who wandered the shopping centre looking for spare change, but without wanting anyone to see what they were doing.

I'm not exactly comfortable vilifying a whole class of people, that didn't have the arse in their trousers in their youth and worked hard to make something of their lives, to save a few quid now. I can't understand how anyone else would be comfortable with it either.

oppenheimer1

MagicMarker wrote: »

What do they contribute?

Hmmm, I dunno... Maybe 40 years of taxes?

I don't think anyone should be spared in the cuts but let's not talk silly talk.

And their taxes paid for the pensioners that were alive at the time they were working. This idea that pensioners are entitled to retain their benefits because they worked all their lives is wrong. A small cut in their entitlements, which amounts to €5 or a cheap bottle of wine a week is not going to leave them destitute. Everyone has to contribute to the effort to pull ourselves out of the hole we are in, including pensioners.

brummytom

Loose pensioners




Ugh

oppenheimer1

Millicent wrote: »

Anecdotal evidence is not the way to win an argument. That one woman is not indicative of every pensioner in the country.

You know how many pensioners I've met who have been the opposite? Tons. I saw it from retail -- the ones who would collect old receipts just to get the few points from them to the ones who wandered the shopping centre looking for spare change, but without wanting anyone to see what they were doing.

I'm not exactly comfortably vilifying a whole class of people, that didn't have the arse in their trousers in their youth and worked hard to make something of their lives, to save a few quid now. I can't understand how anyone else would be comfortable with it either.

There is no need for any pensioner in this country in the last 10 years to be at that craic. They are well looked after, and through the recession have seen an increase in their standard of living because of deflation.

Gone long are the days of the auld fella in the thatched cottage with only a candle to keep him warm. Pensioners are not poor, do people not realise that?

MagicMarker

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

And their taxes paid for the pensioners that were alive at the time they were working. This idea that pensioners are entitled to retain their benefits because they worked all their lives is wrong. A small cut in their entitlements, which amounts to €5 or a cheap bottle of wine a week is not going to leave them destitute. Everyone has to contribute to the effort to pull ourselves out of the hole we are in, including pensioners.

I've already said that no one should be spared in the cuts.

Millicent

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

There is no need for any pensioner in this country in the last 10 years to be at that craic. They are well looked after, and through the recession have seen an increase in their standard of living because of deflation.

Gone long are the days of the auld fella in the thatched cottage with only a candle to keep him warm. Pensioners are not poor, do people not realise that?

And yet, some of them are. Doesn't matter if they should all be well taken care of -- evidently, some of them aren't. Do you want to take money off those people?

Did you read the final portion of my comment? Why are you comfortable taking money off people who worked their whole lives? And realistically, how much of the social welfare bill do you think pensioners actually account for?

TimeToShine

Loose...GRRR

Guy:Incognito

Millicent wrote: »

So let's punish them for the frugality of their youth and buying and paying off properties they could afford? Have I got the gist of that right?

Maybe their pension should be paid at the rate it was when they bought their house so? Are are we rewardign them for not dieing?

phasers

Screw em, put them all on an island and let God sort it out

We could film it and sell the broadcasting rights internationally to help with the deficit

Asphyxia

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

There is no need for any pensioner in this country in the last 10 years to be at that craic. They are well looked after, and through the recession have seen an increase in their standard of living because of deflation.

Gone long are the days of the auld fella in the thatched cottage with only a candle to keep him warm. Pensioners are not poor, do people not realise that?

Not all pensioners are wealthy though, my father is getting f**k all. After working 40 years of his life he gets screwed by the job he was in. I'm not saying that they're all poor either I am just stating that not every pensioner are stinking rich.

Millicent

Stekelly wrote: »

Maybe their pension should be paid at the rate it was when they bought their house so? Are are we rewardign them for not dieing?

Not familiar with inflation then?

smk89

If they didn't spend €30,000 on the terrible advert that won't even be shown anyway I might have some sympathy. http://youtu.be/OnebFH5CVlI

phasers

smk89 wrote: »

If they didn't spend €30,000 on the terrible advert that won't even be shown anyway I might have some sympathy. http://youtu.be/OnebFH5CVlI

"I couldn't keep my dog"
-pfft, Dog food is 30c a pop in aldi

"I had to give up my car"
-Good.

"IT'S COLD AND THERE ARE WOLVES AFTER ME"

Damn old people

oppenheimer1

The non contributory pension is about €230 afaik. They will get a council house if their own is unfit for habitation. They get free telephone, medical, transport, tv licence and electricity as well as a winter fuel allowance. They don't have loans and by and large their children are self supporting at that stage. Are you really suggesting that €225 isn't enough to feed and clothe a person?

The Pension makes up €4bn (possibly more) of the €13bn total social welfare bill afaik.

gurramok

Thought the total social welfare bill was about 22bn?

Anyway yes, if a person with the above criteria as oppenheimer1 described cannot live on it, there is seriously something wrong somewhere. And many pensioners have pensions from when they worked to add to their weekly state pension income.

token101

Sure they'll probably be sponging off us more now after that advert because they're in hospital dying of pneumonia after being out in the rain.

Goldenegg

I think it is completely unjust to tax oaps. These people worked their arses off for 40+ years, paid their taxes and now should be their time to relax a little bit. 220 euro (or whatever the amount is) is not an awful lot to live on when you consider utility bills, grocery shopping etc.

Cowen and Lenihan should have a little look over the water to England and take a leave out of their book. State cars should be abolished with the exception of maybe 1 or 2 for state affairs. These polititions should walk / drive / cycle to work like everyone else and should be on an average wage.

oppenheimer1

Pocketfizz wrote: »

Not all pensioners are wealthy though, my father is getting f**k all. After working 40 years of his life he gets screwed by the job he was in. I'm not saying that they're all poor either I am just stating that not every pensioner are stinking rich.

No they're not all rich far from it. However the state pension allows for a decent standard of living, so while pensioners are not rich, they're not poor either. No one will be destitute with a 5% cut.

oppenheimer1

Goldenegg wrote: »

I think it is completely unjust to tax oaps. These people worked their arses off for 40+ years, paid their taxes and now should be their time to relax a little bit. 220 euro (or whatever the amount is) is not an awful lot to live on when you consider utility bills, grocery shopping etc.

Cowen and Lenihan should have a little look over the water to England and take a leave out of their book. State cars should be abolished with the exception of maybe 1 or 2 for state affairs. These polititions should walk / drive / cycle to work like everyone else and should be on an average wage.

They don't have utility bills, or medical or mortgages by and large! Groceries, clothes and a holiday can all be easily afforded under the current regime.

oppenheimer1

gurramok wrote: »

Thought the total social welfare bill was about 22bn?

Anyway yes, if a person with the above criteria as oppenheimer1 described cannot live on it, there is seriously something wrong somewhere. And many pensioners have pensions from when they worked to add to their weekly state pension income.

Possibly you're right, I was using the figures for the 2010 budget allocated to the dept of social protection. Some social welfare costs come out of the health budget.

Millicent

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

The non contributory pension is about €230 afaik. They will get a council house if their own is unfit for habitation. They get free telephone, medical, transport, tv licence and electricity as well as a winter fuel allowance. They don't have loans and by and large their children are self supporting at that stage. Are you really suggesting that €225 isn't enough to feed and clothe a person?

The Pension makes up €4bn (possibly more) of the €13bn total social welfare bill afaik.

€219, according to the Department of Social Protection, moving to €229 from 80 upwards so that's fair enough. A lot of the other benefits are for over the age of 70.

I wasn't saying that it was a giant cut and tbh, I probably wouldn't have reacted so strongly, were it not for the glee the OP took in the proposal.

Goldenegg

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

They don't have utility bills, or medical or mortgages by and large! Groceries, clothes and a holiday can all be easily afforded under the current regime.

And you know this how? My parents are pensioners. They dont have medical cards. My mother is on medication which costs her 100 euro per week which then leaves her with little over 100 for the rest. They have to pay their phone bill and esb like everyone else.

goose2005

Millicent wrote: »

So let's punish them for the frugality of their youth and buying and paying off properties they could afford? Have I got the gist of that right?

No, punish them for voting for de Valera and Haughey, and for obeying the church their whole lives.

Goldenegg wrote: »

I think it is completely unjust to tax oaps. These people worked their arses off for 40+ years, paid their taxes and now should be their time to relax a little bit. 220 euro (or whatever the amount is) is not an awful lot to live on when you consider utility bills, grocery shopping etc.

Cowen and Lenihan should have a little look over the water to England and take a leave out of their book. State cars should be abolished with the exception of maybe 1 or 2 for state affairs. These polititions should walk / drive / cycle to work like everyone else and should be on an average wage.

Doesn't the British royal family get about £10m per annum? Hardly the sort of thing we want FF to see.

Asphyxia

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

The non contributory pension is about €230 afaik. They will get a council house if their own is unfit for habitation. They get free telephone, medical, transport, tv licence and electricity as well as a winter fuel allowance. They don't have loans and by and large their children are self supporting at that stage. Are you really suggesting that €225 isn't enough to feed and clothe a person?

The Pension makes up €4bn (possibly more) of the €13bn total social welfare bill afaik.

€225 is more than enough to feed and clothe "one" person but my father has a wife who only gets one payment of Children's Allowance a month and kids which are under 16, he is still paying off his mortgage and was cut off the house hold benefit scheme the other month so doesn't receive any free telephone, medical, transport, tv licence, electricity or fuel allowance. You are placing all pensioners into the same line which is ridiculous because not all of them are getting the same.

Mr. Loverman

Dean09 wrote: »

*Lose

..........just saying........

There are only three dots in an ellipsis.

Just sayin'...

smk89

phasers wrote: »

"I couldn't keep my dog"
-pfft, Dog food is 30c a pop in aldi

"I had to give up my car"
-Good.

"IT'S COLD AND THERE ARE WOLVES AFTER ME"

Damn old people

It stinks of this one from america a few months ago http://youtu.be/Wp76ly2_NoI

DOC09UNAM

pensioners are already loose.

Goldenegg

goose2005 wrote: »

Doesn't the British royal family get about £10m per annum? Hardly the sort of thing we want FF to see.

I was talking about the ideas of cameron.

gurramok

Pocketfizz wrote: »

€225 is more than enough to feed and clothe "one" person but my father has a wife who only gets one payment of Children's Allowance a month and kids which are under 16, he is still paying off his mortgage and was cut off the house hold benefit scheme the other month so doesn't receive any free telephone, medical, transport, tv licence, electricity or fuel allowance. You are placing all pensioners into the same line which is ridiculous because not all of them are getting the same.

Hold on, your father(a pensioner) has kids under 16?:eek:

Goldenegg wrote: »

And you know this how? My parents are pensioners. They dont have medical cards. My mother is on medication which costs her 100 euro per week which then leaves her with little over 100 for the rest. They have to pay their phone bill and esb like everyone else.

Every pensioner is entitled to the medicial card. Why haven't they got one?

oppenheimer1

Goldenegg wrote: »

And you know this how? My parents are pensioners. They dont have medical cards. My mother is on medication which costs her 100 euro per week which then leaves her with little over 100 for the rest. They have to pay their phone bill and esb like everyone else.

Your parents aren't claiming all the benefits they're entitled too then. The drugs payment scheme limits the amount a resident pays in Ireland for medication to €120 per month.

Phone and ESB, have the standing charge + a unit allowance paid for by the dept of social protection.

Millicent

goose2005 wrote: »

No, punish them for voting for de Valera and Haughey, and for obeying the church their whole lives.

Only in AH would that be considered a response! :pac: For the record though, my Granddad hated Dev and Haughey. Might go ask my Nan how she feels about any of this generation who voted for Bertie etc. Ye know, just for an equality of argument.

oppenheimer1

Pocketfizz wrote: »

€225 is more than enough to feed and clothe "one" person but my father has a wife who only gets one payment of Children's Allowance a month and kids which are under 16, he is still paying off his mortgage and was cut off the house hold benefit scheme the other month so doesn't receive any free telephone, medical, transport, tv licence, electricity or fuel allowance. You are placing all pensioners into the same line which is ridiculous because not all of them are getting the same.

Your father was 47 when he had a child?

Capt'n Midnight

down a fiver ?

If the pension had been index linked then they'd be down about the same anyway

super_furry

Means test it. Simple.

Asphyxia

gurramok wrote: »

Hold on, your father(a pensioner) has kids under 16?:eek:

My mother is only 48 my father is 66.

Asphyxia

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Your father was 47 when he had a child?

Yes and...

Mr. Loverman

Pocketfizz wrote: »

Yes and...

I think they're just impressed he can get a boner at that age.

You're thinking about your dad's boner now, aren't you