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Selling poppies

13567…13

Comments

  • #62
    Bottle_of_Smoke
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭Bottle_of_Smoke


    Rebelheart wrote: »
    Leaving aside the relativity, what was "just" about the British Empire fighting the German Empire in WW I?

    Too tired to get into that all and furthermore all that's relevant is I can understand someone wearing a poppy in their memory but not that of of modern UVF killers


  • #63
    Rebelheart
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,077 ✭✭✭Rebelheart


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    Anyway, people fought in wars for people to have the right to wear what they want.

    Can you give me any primary evidence to support this, Keith?

    Yes, I'm looking for somebody in, say, 1914 saying something akin to "I'm going to fight in WW1 so that people have the right to wear what they want".


  • #64
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Zambia232 wrote: »
    Fair enough but I asked you respect others with a different standpiont. I never asked you to change yours.

    Thats extremely difficult when they fund said murderers livelihoods.:mad:


  • #65
    Rebelheart
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,077 ✭✭✭Rebelheart


    Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »
    Too tired to get into that all and furthermore all that's relevant is I can understand someone wearing a poppy in their memory but not that of of modern UVF killers

    Fair enough. You just appear to be overlooking that very many of the same people who were fighting for the British Empire between 1914 and 1918 were also party to it murdering countless innocent people and occupying many foreign lands in order to support British nationalist political and economic aims. These people whom you differentiate from the modern UVF so clearly, were merely engaged in racism, robbery and tribal nationalism on a much larger scale. Nothing worthy of 'honouring' there.


  • #66
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    gurramok wrote: »
    Thats extremely difficult when they fund said murderers livelihoods.:mad:

    Your right somewhere a few quid is going to some old **** who overstepped his bounds and performed some act they should not have.

    I believe that it is a very small amount of the funds. This to me is not grounds to refute the entire poppy appeal.


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  • #67
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Zambia232 wrote: »
    Your right somewhere a few quid is going to some old **** who overstepped his bounds and performed some act they should not have.

    I believe that it is a very small amount of the funds. This to me is not grounds to refute the entire poppy appeal.

    Well of course, not all soldiers were like that. Its their superiors who never did anything to weed out the bad apples that is causing grief and resentment.


  • #68
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    Rebelheart wrote: »
    Can you give me any primary evidence to support this, Keith?

    Yes, I'm looking for somebody in, say, 1914 saying something akin to "I'm going to fight in WW1 so that people have the right to wear what they want".
    WW2, Omaha beach, pegasus bridge, rescuing people from the death camps, Victory flag on the reichstag.

    Over time, all these moments have paved the way for freedom and people to express themselves.

    Look at all these protests we see now, none of them would of been allowed under Nazi rule. Its that simple.


  • #69
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    Rebelheart wrote: »

    Yes, I'm looking for somebody in, say, 1914 saying something akin to "I'm going to fight in WW1 so that people have the right to wear what they want".


    They went because their mates went.


  • #70
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    gurramok wrote: »
    Well of course, not all soldiers were like that. Its their superiors who never did anything to weed out the bad apples that is causing grief and resentment.

    Hence I lump said superiors in with the **** who overstepped their bounds.


  • #71
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Zambia232 wrote: »
    Hence I lump said superiors in with the **** who overstepped their bounds.

    Complicity is the word and thats why there is an issue.


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  • #72
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    If you are comfortable in providing money for a support system for British soldiers go ahead. The poppy these days IS NOT just to remember those from WW1, it is for that and every subsequent British war.


  • #73
    deise go deo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    Anyway, people fought in wars for people to have the right to wear what they want.

    Keith I don't think the Kiezer was planning on setting up a fashion police.:pac:


  • #74
    deise go deo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    WW2, Omaha beach, pegasus bridge, rescuing people from the death camps, Victory flag on the reichstag.

    Over time, all these moments have paved the way for freedom and people to express themselves.

    Look at all these protests we see now, none of them would of been allowed under Nazi rule. Its that simple.


    The Keizer wasent a nazi, your about 30 years out.


  • #75
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    And as for it not being a political symbol it damn well is. Just wait till you hear Camerons bullsh!t about honoring Brit soldiers from then and some sh!te about the current batch of murderers "serving in Iraq and Afghanistan"


  • #76
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    WW2, Omaha beach, pegasus bridge, rescuing people from the death camps, Victory flag on the reichstag.

    Over time, all these moments have paved the way for freedom and people to express themselves.

    Look at all these protests we see now, none of them would of been allowed under Nazi rule. Its that simple.

    As long as you are not a Catholic in the Orange state right?

    Look closer to home Keith, protests were not exactly permitted up north were they? So after they came home from fighting for "freedom" they set up their own little oppressive state.


  • #77
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    As long as you are not a Catholic in the Orange state right?

    Look closer to home Keith, protests were not exactly permitted up north were they? So after they came home from fighting for "freedom" they set up their own little oppressive state.
    Look at my comment, OVER TIME. Look at the freedom we have now, compared to what we could of faced. Just look at Hitlers vision for his Third Reich.


  • #78
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    deise go deo wrote: »
    The Keizer wasent a nazi, your about 30 years out.
    The poppy is about WW2 too.


  • #79
    deise go deo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    The poppy is about WW2 too.

    Ya but had Britain lost WWI then there would have been no Nazism


  • #80
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    deise go deo wrote: »
    Ya but had Britain lost WWI then there would have been no Nazism
    Yeah but you know what they say, it was only one war, they only took a break. :pac:


  • #81
    deise go deo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    Yeah but you know what they say, it was only one war, they only took a break. :pac:

    Yes as history played out the first caused the second, Had Germany won the first doh then who knows, We would be in a very different world, Its unlikely there would have been the same rise of extremism but then we may have had Imperialism surviving far longer than it did, Still, an interesting thought.


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  • #82
    Shea O'Meara
    Closed Accounts Posts: 960 ✭✭✭Shea O'Meara


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    Ulster is their home.

    They aren't going anywhere..:confused:

    I was referring to the UVF. Confused scumbags attempting to take ownership of ancient Irish symbols.

    Also WWI was nothing more than the quarrels of a privileged family fued. It's a disgrace anybody died for that and certainly it shouldn't be romanticised. How anyone worships an aristocracy is beyond me.


  • #83
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    gurramok wrote: »
    Why such I respect the beliefs of someone who buys a poppy where said funds goes to the welfare of the Bloody Sunday murderers who got away with murder?

    Try the other side of the coin, would you respect my belief if I bought a symbol representing the murderers of those kids at Warrington?

    You know your answer.

    So what you are saying is that we should not respect the memories of the hundreds of thousands of British soldiers that died, because of the actions of a few?
    Rebelheart wrote: »
    This is thoughtless, pseudo-politically correct bollocksology: there are very many views which we encounter in life which should not be respected. British claims to lands beyond Britain - i.e. supremacist claims - rank highly in that regard in my ethical belief system.

    To put it in terms which you can probably relate to: would you respect the beliefs of somebody who believes he has a right to force his wife to do everything he says, dress as he says, and think as he says?

    People who support such claims do not have the right to expect respect on a par with, say, the views of Nelson Mandela on apartheid. Simple as.

    Less shíte; more substance, please.

    No, what is thoughtless, pseudo-politically correct bollocksology is your apparent belief that the entire world revolves you own petty little grudges.

    wearing a poppy has nothing to do with British claims to lands beyond Britain as you put it, or imperialism or anything else you would like it to represent.

    Less ranting, more thinking please.


  • #84
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Shea O'Meara wrote: »
    Also WWI was nothing more than the quarrels of a privileged family fued. It's a disgrace anybody died for that and certainly it shouldn't be romanticised. How anyone worships an aristocracy is beyond me.

    err. yes it was. a lot more.


  • #85
    Captain Commie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 688 ✭✭✭Captain Commie


    slightly off topic. Being from the north I always wear a poppy and as a youngun (from 11 to 18) i paraded in the BB each year on rememberance sunday to the cenotaph in whitehead.

    first time i wore a poppy in dublin someone actually came up to me on grafton street and told me to "take that hateful british propaganda sh!te off"

    We live in a society that allows people to practise what ever faith they want and to wear any symbols they want. I have lost previous members of my family to WW1 and in a solem act of rememberance to them i wear a poppy, why to people in ireland see that as offensive when it is also remembering the 35,000+ irish that died in WW1.

    Seriously i think people need to get over it and realise that all their arguing over what is done with the money is nothing compared to the memories of the people that fought in that war to give us the society we have today.


  • #86
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    sitstill wrote: »
    My mate is Irish and Catholic. His father used to be in the British Army as did his Great-Grand Father, who died in Flanders in WWI.

    My friend has now volunteered to sell poppies next month for the Royal British Legion because he thinks they support veterans (including Irish ones well).

    I think its kinda disgusting though. What do people think?

    Ignorance is usually bliss, although not in this instance, there have been hundreds of pages over the years on boards.ie about the tens of thousands of Irish men who died in the two World Wars, millions of poppies grow on the fields of Flanders where many of those Irish men fell, (Its a sobering thought)! Since the early 20s it has been a tradition in Ireland & Britain to wear artificial ones at this time of year to commemorate those dead, (its a personal choice), but to say that "Its kinda disgusting" is to show ignorance in the extreme.

    Personally I always wear a poppy in Dublin on or around the 11th of November.


  • #87
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    johnnyskeleton wrote: »
    Ah, so it's ok when the Germans kill people/put them in concentration camps, but when the British do it it's a big no no?

    Surprised no-one picked up on this. Is anyone asking people to wear a symbol to commemerate the Nazi's? If not, pointless contribution.

    If you can give me a symbol that commemerates those who died in the World Wars I will wear it. But I will not fund an association that pays for the nursing care of Black and Tans, 2 Para or the soldiers who rampaged around Iraq nor will I wear a symbol supporting them. Like it or not the poppy has been poltiicised by the British Legion as a jingositic 'support or boys' campaign


  • #88
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    LordSutch wrote: »
    Ignorance is usually bliss, although not in this instance, there have been hundreds of pages over the years on boards.ie about the tens of thousands of Irish men who died in the two World Wars, millions of poppies grow on the fields of Flanders where many of those Irish men fell, (Its a sobering thought)! Since the early 20s it has been a tradition in Ireland & Britain to wear artificial ones at this time of year to commemorate those dead, (its a personal choice), but to say that "Its kinda disgusting" is to show ignorance in the extreme.

    Personally I always wear a poppy in Dublin on or around the 11th of November.

    So they are JUST to commereate WW1? There has been no move to make it a generic pro Brit army symbol by the BL?


  • #89
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    innovated wrote: »
    slightly off topic. Being from the north I always wear a poppy and as a youngun (from 11 to 18) i paraded in the BB each year on rememberance sunday to the cenotaph in whitehead.

    first time i wore a poppy in dublin someone actually came up to me on grafton street and told me to "take that hateful british propaganda sh!te off"

    We live in a society that allows people to practise what ever faith they want and to wear any symbols they want. I have lost previous members of my family to WW1 and in a solem act of rememberance to them i wear a poppy, why to people in ireland see that as offensive when it is also remembering the 35,000+ irish that died in WW1.

    Seriously i think people need to get over it and realise that all their arguing over what is done with the money is nothing compared to the memories of the people that fought in that war to give us the society we have today.

    But the poppy isn't just about WW1. If it was, there would be no debate. Its about supporting soldiers from all Brit wars, including Ireland. You must see why some people object, even if you don't agree with them...


  • #90
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    The poppy is about WW2 too.

    and the Bogside and Basra and India and Kenya and...


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  • #91
    Ellian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 301 ✭✭Ellian


    Am I the only one who thinks this is an argument about semiotics and what poppies signify to individual people.

    To one person, it represents the memory of a staggering number of people killed in WW1 - including some Irish people.

    To others it represents British militarism in it's various guises from 1918 through to the present day.

    If that is true, couldn't you just apply the same argument to any symbol? For example, you could have someone who understands the irish tricolour as being a symbol of Nationalism, Unionism and the aspired to peace that could exist between those two political philosophies, and would take excpetion to a perceived usurpation (whether right or wrong) of that image when it is draped over the coffin of someone who was involved in violent nationalism?


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