Take back our Natural Resources

maxwell smart · 18-10-2010 06:54PM #1

I was sent this link a while ago and thought, what has happened to these resources? I know Shell have sown up a great deal for Corrib, but what about the rest of these prospective finds? We could do with the money if they were viable.
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/ireland-on-the-verge-of-an-oil-and-gas-bonanza-679889.html

Sponge Bob · 18-10-2010 07:02PM

maxwell smart wrote: »

I was sent this link a while ago and thought, what has happened to these resources?

Look at the date for gods sake

, that was a pack of shyte fed to the media by then minister Noel Dempsey during an election campaign.

dunsandin · 18-10-2010 07:12PM

SpongeBob, thats shocking. Dempsey and sh1te in the same sentence. Now theres a first.:D

maxwell smart · 18-10-2010 07:19PM

Bah! I knew that guy who sent me the link was an FF'er!! And there is me, sold a pup again by them!!

Nolanger · 18-10-2010 07:23PM

We're on the verge of a whaling industry too but no-one talks about that either?

18-10-2010 08:50PM

Nolanger wrote: »

We're on the verge of a whaling industry too but no-one talks about that either?

is this some joke about Harney or Cowen? I dont get it....or are you proposing we clone them for their blubber thus undercutting the Japanese whaling industry?

Genius

fontanalis · 18-10-2010 09:09PM

Well the independant covered it! How much oil did they find?

WalterMitty · 18-10-2010 09:20PM

Provedence resources was run/owned by Tony O'Reilly's son. Tony o'Reilly who owned most indo papers at time article was written.

Scofflaw · 18-10-2010 09:24PM

The claim that the Irish offshore has just masses of oil and gas waiting to be exploited by simply sticking a straw in the sand at Salthill is complete and utter rubbish, I'm sorry to say. It's talked up at intervals by companies trying to drum up a bit of interest in their shares, or by Ministers trying to drum up some interest before the latest licensing round, but the reality has remained pretty dismal for the the last 20 years of offshore exploration in Irish waters - small fields, poorly understood geology, deep waters, hostile natives, a hit rate of 1 exploration well in 30 showing anything at all. Exploitation of any finds would be at the edge of what is technologically feasible, and there really haven't been many finds either.

To be honest, there's likely to be substantial drilling in the Arctic before there's substantial drilling in the Irish offshore - it should be conveniently ice-free in summers some time in the next couple of decades.

cordially,
Scofflaw

dunsandin · 18-10-2010 09:38PM

You're probably right Scoff. I heard another mad claim that there might be commercial quantities of gold in Monaghan!!! Preposterouse. oh no, hang on...

Scofflaw · 18-10-2010 10:02PM

dunsandin wrote: »

You're probably right Scoff. I heard another mad claim that there might be commercial quantities of gold in Monaghan!!! Preposterouse. oh no, hang on...

Sure - that would really get us out of our current plight:

Costs of building and running the mine are estimated at around two-thirds of the value of the unexploited resources which, at present prices, could see a return of €190m.

I'm afraid the whole idea that we might suddenly come into new-found mineral or oil wealth (or that it's already been found, but it's being kept secret) is just another bit of wishfully thinking that there's some way out of this crisis that doesn't involve hard work. Many of the threads on this forum follow exactly the thought processes of someone unexpectedly presented with an enormous bill, for prompt settlement, after living the life of Reilly for several years:

1. "I can just refuse to pay!" - default threads, leave the euro threads, revolution threads, etc

2a. "it must be someone else's fault, I'm an innocent victim of circumstance" - the EU did it, it's the Germans' fault, the banks did it

2b. "someone else must have been running up these huge bills, and if I get rid of them, it'll all be fine" - it's the immigrants, dole spongers, TD's expenses, PS workers

3. "maybe I'll win the lotto tonight and pay it off" - oil & gas, gold reserves

4. "it's not my fault, I was badly advised" - economists, politicians

5. "I'll flee the country" - emigration threads

6. "it's a conspiracy!" - more for the CT forum, admittedly

Virtually every denial option has been used. It's kind of sad, really.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Permabear · 18-10-2010 10:13PM

This post has been deleted.

dunsandin · 18-10-2010 10:22PM

Scofflaw wrote: »

Sure - that would really get us out of our current plight:

I'm afraid the whole idea that we might suddenly come into new-found mineral or oil wealth (or that it's already been found, but it's being kept secret) is just another bit of wishfully thinking that there's some way out of this crisis that doesn't involve hard work. Many of the threads on this forum follow exactly the thought processes of someone unexpectedly presented with an enormous bill, for prompt settlement, after living the life of Reilly for several years:

1. "I can just refuse to pay!" - default threads, leave the euro threads, revolution threads, etc

2a. "it must be someone else's fault, I'm an innocent victim of circumstance" - the EU did it, it's the Germans' fault, the banks did it

2b. "someone else must have been running up these huge bills, and if I get rid of them, it'll all be fine" - it's the immigrants, dole spongers, TD's expenses, PS workers

3. "maybe I'll win the lotto tonight and pay it off" - oil & gas, gold reserves

4. "it's not my fault, I was badly advised" - economists, politicians

5. "I'll flee the country" - emigration threads

6. "it's a conspiracy!" - more for the CT forum, admittedly

Virtually every denial option has been used. It's kind of sad, really.

cordially,
Scofflaw

I agree fully. The above have all been done to death by the present Govt. It really is time for a change.
I note that there has been no new thread to explore the oppositions assertion that having seen the figures, things in the economy are in fact WORSE than all to-date predictions, maybe we could hijack this thread to discuss this, seeing as how the original proposition has been condemned as the wishful thinking of a horseless beggar?

gleep · 19-10-2010 12:26PM

So we've a €15Bn hole in our finances. We also have Oil and Gas reserves worth approx €500Bn that are being tapped by multinationals to earn huge profits, which we will only see crumbs of.

Does anyone else think we should re-negotiate the terms of these agreements at least? I'm not saying kick Shell & Co out, but tell them we want more, much more. And if they refuse, send our garda, army & navy to escort them. It's our country, our resources and these are extraordinary times. I think we all know we were fooled by the oil companies, our next government should have the balls to put it right.

19-10-2010 12:33PM

Where is this €500bln?

Shell haven't managed to bring a single barrel ashore.

Don't you think if there were billions of Euro just waiting to be brought ashore we would already have an oil industry like Scotland or Norway?

gleep · 19-10-2010 12:39PM

Then why are they building the Corrib pipeline? To pump air?

The wells have been found, they are just waiting to be tapped. Thing is, they are owned now by Oil companies, who are acting in their own interest. My guess is they're sitting on the resources till they need them.

maxwell smart · 19-10-2010 12:44PM

Scofflaw wrote: »

.....er living the life of Tony O' Reilly for several years:

I've fixed that there for you;)

Amhran Nua · 19-10-2010 12:44PM

gleep wrote: »

And if they refuse, send our garda, army & navy to escort them. It's our country, our resources and these are extraordinary times.

Or here's a better idea, we could go all out with the way the wind is blowing and invest heeavily in green energy and transportation initiatives? The sad thing is that even a constructive suggestion like this will raise more of a storm of protest among the right wing around these parts than the idea of nationalising whatever resources are out there.

jimmycrackcorm · 19-10-2010 12:46PM

I'd totally agree provided we could also go back in time before any exploration and tell shell that if you drill for oil or gas we will be taking it off you.

Then we wouldn't be having thus discussion now.

Amhran Nua · 19-10-2010 12:48PM

Scofflaw wrote: »

2a. "it must be someone else's fault, I'm an innocent victim of circumstance"

Actually for the majority of Irish citizens that might not be a bad description of the situation. Plenty of people haven't got an SUV and an investment property in Bulgaria. Not to blame the ECB or the Germans, but there could be a strong case made for failure to uphold the public trust in certain quarters.

gleep · 19-10-2010 12:54PM

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I'd totally agree provided we could also go back in time before any exploration and tell shell that if you drill for oil or gas we will be taking it off you.

Then we wouldn't be having thus discussion now.

Little cryptic there jimmy, but I get it. You're basically saying that without Shell etc we wouldn't have found the oil/gas?

Maybe so. I'm not arguing that, I'm saying we stand to gain only miniscule benefit from our resources, Shell etc will make billions. I'm saying we should tell them we want more.

19-10-2010 12:54PM

gleep wrote: »

Then why are they building the Corrib pipeline? To pump air?

The wells have been found, they are just waiting to be tapped. Thing is, they are owned now by Oil companies, who are acting in their own interest. My guess is they're sitting on the resources till they need them.

Their own interest is to make a profit.

The fact that there have only been two serious attempts in the past 30 years to tap these resources suggest that the €500bln isn't as easy to get at as you seem to suggest.

Think of the positives - oil prices seem to be continuously rising - when the oil companies decide it is in their interest to extract this stuff it might be worth €1 trillion!

gleep · 19-10-2010 01:02PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Their own interest is to make a profit.

The fact that there have only been two serious attempts in the past 30 years to tap these resources suggest that the €500bln isn't as easy to get at as you seem to suggest.

Think of the positives - oil prices seem to be continuously rising - when the oil companies decide it is in their interest to extract this stuff it might be worth €1 trillion!

I'm sure Oil companies have everything going just how they want it. They are producing enough to meet demand, keeping prices high and everyone happy. I'll bet my life that if they needed to get to the Irish reserves they would, no problem.

19-10-2010 01:13PM

Out of interest do you have access to any reports by geologists or exploration companies to back up the value of €500bln?

Ideally listing confirmed amounts of oil/gas and potentially confirming how easy they would be to get to.

gleep · 19-10-2010 01:33PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Out of interest do you have access to any reports by geologists or exploration companies to back up the value of €500bln?

Ideally listing confirmed amounts of oil/gas and potentially confirming how easy they would be to get to.

I'm looking. Although I'm pretty sure the only people who know what's there are the Oil companies!

I do know though, that back in the late eighties, we changed the law regarding Oil companies. Basically they could write off all exploration costs against profits and the exchequer would be entitled to far less of a cut.

Guess what happened then? The Oil companies reported finding new reserves (99% more) despite a 40% drop in exploration. Go figure.

Finding plenty of info like this, nothing concrete but seems to be based on actual data by PAD

gleep · 19-10-2010 01:38PM

Petroleum Affairs Division, govt dept. Lots of maps etc, no value. If anyone can work it out, please enlighten me!

http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Natural/Petroleum+Affairs+Division/

Scofflaw · 19-10-2010 02:12PM

gleep wrote: »

Then why are they building the Corrib pipeline? To pump air?

The wells have been found, they are just waiting to be tapped. Thing is, they are owned now by Oil companies, who are acting in their own interest. My guess is they're sitting on the resources till they need them.

Reposted after thread merge:

The claim that the Irish offshore has just masses of oil and gas waiting to be exploited by simply sticking a straw in the sand at Salthill is complete and utter rubbish, I'm sorry to say. It's talked up at intervals by companies trying to drum up a bit of interest in their shares, or by Ministers trying to drum up some interest before the latest licensing round, but the reality has remained pretty dismal for the the last 20 years of offshore exploration in Irish waters - small fields, poorly understood geology, deep waters, hostile natives, a hit rate of 1 exploration well in 30 showing anything at all. Exploitation of any finds would be at the edge of what is technologically feasible, and there really haven't been many finds either.

To be honest, there's likely to be substantial drilling in the Arctic before there's substantial drilling in the Irish offshore - it should be conveniently ice-free in summers some time in the next couple of decades.

Much of the exploration drilling in the Irish offshore was done when I was still in the oil industry, and friends of mine were on the exploration rigs. The figure of €500bn is meaningless, I'm afraid. The idea that the oil companies have found stuff out there and kept it secret is also not a runner - wells are drilled by consortiums of companies large and small, with PAD observers on hand. The small companies involved immediately trumpet any find they make, because they need the immediate boost - and the large companies do the same. They can't make money out of a field that's not being exploited except by telling everyone and raising their share prices - and you can't secretly exploit an oil field.

There are no secret oil reservoirs to bail us out of our mess, I'm afraid.

cordially,
Scofflaw

gleep · 19-10-2010 03:44PM

Scofflaw wrote: »

Reposted after thread merge:

The claim that the Irish offshore has just masses of oil and gas waiting to be exploited by simply sticking a straw in the sand at Salthill is complete and utter rubbish, I'm sorry to say. It's talked up at intervals by companies trying to drum up a bit of interest in their shares, or by Ministers trying to drum up some interest before the latest licensing round, but the reality has remained pretty dismal for the the last 20 years of offshore exploration in Irish waters - small fields, poorly understood geology, deep waters, hostile natives, a hit rate of 1 exploration well in 30 showing anything at all. Exploitation of any finds would be at the edge of what is technologically feasible, and there really haven't been many finds either.

To be honest, there's likely to be substantial drilling in the Arctic before there's substantial drilling in the Irish offshore - it should be conveniently ice-free in summers some time in the next couple of decades.

Much of the exploration drilling in the Irish offshore was done when I was still in the oil industry, and friends of mine were on the exploration rigs. The figure of €500bn is meaningless, I'm afraid. The idea that the oil companies have found stuff out there and kept it secret is also not a runner - wells are drilled by consortiums of companies large and small, with PAD observers on hand. The small companies involved immediately trumpet any find they make, because they need the immediate boost - and the large companies do the same. They can't make money out of a field that's not being exploited except by telling everyone and raising their share prices - and you can't secretly exploit an oil field.

There are no secret oil reservoirs to bail us out of our mess, I'm afraid.

cordially,
Scofflaw

OK Scofflaw, point taken. You have worked in the Oil industry so will obviously know more than me.

I'm not saying that our resources could save our bacon over night. I just want our politicians to grow a set and demand more than the country is currently getting for whatever is actually being extracted. And to demand more in the future.

Nody · 19-10-2010 04:30PM

gleep wrote: »

I just want our politicians to grow a set and demand more than the country is currently getting for whatever is actually being extracted. And to demand more in the future.

So you want a bigger percentage from the zero money coming in currently then the Irish state is currently getting? Got ya and you got it! Instead of getting 30% of zero you can now have 60% of zero!

dunsandin · 19-10-2010 04:32PM

If every small step in the right direction is rejected as being too small, you know where we will get? Nowhere.
Yes, we have natural rescources, zinc and lead in meath, same in tipp, gold in the north, oil and gas to the west, and no doubt more if we really went looking. Scoff, with respect, you are a master at producing an evenly argued post about what cannot be done, Any about what can be done? Now that might be interesting.
Your argument that all the posts about the economy are boring and repetitive, well would you mind enlightening the rest of us as to what kind of thread you yourself might find less boring and sad? And we are not all waking up after the big party, finding a bill and running around like chickens. Some of us stayed in watching tv that night, and life has not really changed much for us.
What you are espousing is the line the govt's of the last few years have pursued - go for the big fish(FDI) and ignore the small. Well the small are easier landed and carried, and you are no less full if you have enough of them. DS

Nolanger · 19-10-2010 06:35PM

Deleted User wrote: »

is this some joke about Harney or Cowen? I dont get it....or are you proposing we clone them for their blubber thus undercutting the Japanese whaling industry?

Genius

Nope, we restart our fishing industry and develop a whaling industry for Ireland. Surprised no-one else will suggest this?

Take back our Natural Resources

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