all grants and funds for students are finished this year (maybe)

Cookie_Monster · 19-10-2010 03:42PM

starbelgrade wrote: »

I don't mean to be pedantic, but I seriously doubt that. You may not have got a grant for registration fees, but you most likely didn't have to pay tuition fees, which over 3 years would have been around €50k.

In Sligo? I doubt it, for practical course like Engineering in the larger universities maybe, not in an IT though

The_Conductor · 19-10-2010 03:45PM

sensibleken wrote: »

I dont know a single person who would have been able to go to college if it wasnt for free fees, myself included. When I was in college 90% of the people I met in my first year 1998 did not come from a background where their families could have afforded college for more than 1 child, and 1 at a push.

There are 7 children in my family- all of us managed to attend college. We all had to work to pay our way- and no, we didn't get grants etc. It was tough- at one stage I had 3 separate part-time jobs, but it was what most people in my class did. I graduated in 1997 btw.

sensibleken wrote: »

I wonder if the CSO have produced anything on this. I would imagine that college educated people go on to earn higher wages and thus pay higher tax. It could be a return to fees will leave huge swathes of people out of the tax bracket in the long run.

It depends on how its structured. The proposals are that a government loan be provided to students, based on the actual cost of supplying the course on a cost-basis, to those students. They would then have x number of years, after graduation, to repay the loan, at a favourable interest rate (7.5% is the current figure being used in the models).

College educated people do not necessarily go on to earn higher wages- it depends entirely on which course/discipline people decide to follow. E.g. We have space for a finite number of people to practice archaeology in Ireland- yet we produce almost 28 times more students of archaeology than we have openings, in some of the Arts and Social Sciences- the numbers are even more startling.

People need to either equip themselves for a profession as a result of attending 3rd level education (whatever profession that may be), or accept that if they are attending college purely as an educational endeavour, that there is a price to pay for it (and be willing to pay that price, whatever it may be).

Free fees are all well and good- but what do we hope to achieve from 14,000 people graduating with Arts Degrees every year (or even 280 midwives- when there is a recruitment ban in the HSE)?

Crasp · 19-10-2010 03:45PM

flas wrote: »

just got a text from my girlfriend, she was in class and some faculity member from her college came into the lecture and told them all that the grants, which they are about to recieve the first payment of, has been cut so they will not be getting what they were originally told.

he then proceeded to explain that this is the last year of grants and funds for students as they are being totally done away with.

what is anyone who wants a 3rd level education but is not rolling in money ment to do now?

Hope it's not true, certainly sounds like crossed wires...

Sean^DCT4 wrote: »

get a job.. ?

stfu?

6 years of tuition fees + books, rent + bills, food and travel expenses... there is no way that any unskilled job would allow me to earn that amount of money per year and attend college at the same time.

southsiderosie wrote: »

Take out a loan?

"Dear Mr bank manager, i need €60,000 to pay for 6 years of college, and associated rent, travel, food and educational materials. Obviously I'll pay it all back after I qualify. I'll be good for paying it back (in small amounts) in about 6 years time, I swear"

Duggy747 wrote: »

Get a job, I couldn't get grants of any kind and paid my own way through college in Sligo for 3 years.............I worked brutal hours at Lidl in my town in Roscommon but, dammit, it paid for everything.

Just stop going out binging on Thursday nights and doing whatever hoodlum things you pesky students do nowadays :pac:

I assume that's sarcasm...

sensibleken · 19-10-2010 03:46PM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

ah come off it, where'd you go to college?

For the record I paid my own fees for 1.5 years due to changing courses, not a whole lot more than the reg fee is now.

first year tallaght IT, then ucd. I should point out that in ucd most people i hung around with would also not have been able to go to college if they had to pay tuition.

maybe they should charge only members of the socialist workers party, those guys parents are always loaded, and annoying as sh*t

how much were your fees, are we talking registration fees or tuition fees

prinz · 19-10-2010 03:47PM

Crasp wrote: »

stfu?
in order for me to pay 6 years of tuition fees + books, rent + bills, food and travel expenses there is no way that any unskilled job would allow me to earn that amount of money per year and attend college at the same time.
"Dear Mr bank manager, i need €60,000 to pay for 6 years of college, and associated rent, travel, food and educational materials. Obviously I'll pay it all back after I qualify. I'll be good for paying it back (in small amounts) in about 6 years time, I swear"...

Seriously though, how do you think students in other countries manage it?

The_Conductor · 19-10-2010 03:50PM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

In Sligo? I doubt it, for practical course like Engineering in the larger universities maybe, not in an IT though

The location isn't the factor- the cost of providing tuition in certain disciplines may be even higher in Institutes of Technology- where they don't have the staff and researchers to offset some of their costs against. E.g. look at the likes of UCD- all its funded research goes into a central kitty, from which the President can offset the costs of certain courses against the income from certain lucrative areas.......

In practice this means that a postgrad paying fees for a science based subject is cross-subsidising the postgrad doing their MA.........(its easier to sell for example food research, to an outside body, than it is to sell yet another perspective on Greek and Roman civilisations........)

Some of the ITs and even universities are already consolidating their courses in a particular manner- to focus on those areas in which they can prosper (look at the agreement between UL and NUIG relating to Arts and Social Sciences for example).

S.

Crasp · 19-10-2010 03:52PM

prinz wrote: »

Seriously though, how do you think students in other countries manage it?

How do you mean?

Are you assuming that I study in Ireland?

johnmct77 · 19-10-2010 03:54PM

I got my grant 5 mins ago.....:D but seriously if the thread title was true , it would simply pull the carpet/money from under the students population (mid year!, no warning)) and force them to bring there november rally much closer....Probably the only thing that wouldd collapse a government!

prinz · 19-10-2010 03:54PM

Crasp wrote: »

Are you assuming that I study in Ireland?

Given that you are complaining about the lack of options for funding a thrid level education yes, I am.

Cookie_Monster · 19-10-2010 03:55PM

Crasp wrote: »

stfu?

6 years of tuition fees + books, rent + bills, food and travel expenses... there is no way that any unskilled job would allow me to earn that amount of money per year and attend college at the same time.

25 hours part time a week will get you around 16-18k a year, no problem.

sensibleken wrote: »

first year tallaght IT, then ucd. I should point out that in ucd most people i hung around with would also not have been able to go to college if they had to pay tuition.

how much were your fees, are we talking registration fees or tuition fees

Did 1.5 years in UCD only paying reg fees. then 3 year course in DIT. in DIT had to pay tuition fees for the 1.5 years equiv in UCD as had already "used up" the free fees for 1st and half 2nd year. Tuition fees for the year were 3k or so iirc for a BSc in Accounting and Finance. that was in 2005-07
Definitely were not more than that anyway as I could pay it out of savings at the time

Crasp · 19-10-2010 03:55PM

prinz wrote: »

Given that you are complaining about the lack of options for funding a thrid level education yes, I am.

Other countries also have third level institutions...

phasers · 19-10-2010 03:56PM

Do you all think these wonderul jobs for students are just going to fall out of the sky?

How does someone get their first job nowadays, nepotism aside?

prinz · 19-10-2010 03:57PM

Crasp wrote: »

Other countries also have third level institutions...

..and in other countries people manage to work their way through college, and get loans which need to be repaid.

Crasp · 19-10-2010 03:58PM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

25 hours part time a week will get you around 16-18k a year, no problem.

Not where I study it wouldn't. Even so, 25hours a week is a luxury I don't have.

Crasp · 19-10-2010 03:59PM

prinz wrote: »

..and in other countries people manage to work their way through college, and get loans which need to be repaid.

mm I can clearly see that you've tried this. Tell me exactly how you managed it please? I'd love to know.

The €3,000 or so I get a year merely slightly offsets the cost of studying.

The_Conductor · 19-10-2010 04:01PM

phasers wrote: »

Do you all think these wonderul jobs for students are just going to fall out of the sky?

How does someone get their first job nowadays, nepotism aside?

Same way as we always did- through hard work and perseverance. Also- people can't afford to be picky- that call centre job, fast food job, supermarket job- may not be where we hope to end up, but its a job, it pays the bills, and it can be a stepping stone towards where we actually want to be.

Just because you have a degree in architecture- does not entitle you to a job as an architect, people need to leverage any little selling point they might have.

When I graduated from college with a degree in Forestry- I ended up in a callcentre working through German, because it was the only skill I had that would pay the bills.

We have become very fussy here in Ireland- we need to put our best feet forward and take any opportunities that come our way- regardless of how suitable we feel they may be.

flutterberry · 19-10-2010 04:09PM

my course was 5,000e a year for two years as i switched courses along with reg fees travel costs ofhaving to travel to college placements along with my normal rent and bills. how did i do it? worked 40 hours a week along with my 39 hour course and didnt get to spend money on fancy ****!

Can i have my medal now please?

prinz · 19-10-2010 04:11PM

Crasp wrote: »

mm I can clearly see that you've tried this. Tell me exactly how you managed it please? I'd love to know.
The €3,000 or so I get a year merely slightly offsets the cost of studying.

I got some grant money, not maintenance but I think it was based on distance from home. Topped up with working, saving and loans. I was lucky... and I'm currently contributing towards paying off my wife's loan. I know all about not being able to afford college at 18, I have two brothers who went to uni in their thirties.

Wolf Club · 19-10-2010 04:19PM

I can't see how this would help in any way, if it's true that is. It certainly would make the dole queues longer which would result in near enough the same money being given out anyway. I could see how stricter means testing or introducing a similar system to England (where you don't start repaying student fee loans until you start earning a certain amount) would help, but not this.

gbee · 19-10-2010 04:24PM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

For the record I paid my own fees for 1.5 years due to changing courses, not a whole lot more than the reg fee is now.

Yup, I dunno who was so dumb to allow that to happen. As you say, not much difference.

Like in the year when they introduced free college for all, the reg fees jumped to close to what the fees would have been anyway .... like come off it already, ... but nothing happened about it.

The_Conductor · 19-10-2010 04:28PM

gbee wrote: »

Yup, I dunno who was so dumb to allow that to happen. As you say, not much difference.

Like in the year when they introduced free college for all, the reg fees jumped to close to what the fees would have been anyway .... like come off it already, ... but nothing happened about it.

In all fairness- the fees that were charged before the introduction of 'free fees' were only a token gesture towards the actual costs associated with supplying the courses. The colleges all got capitation grants, in a similar manner to the secondary schools etc.

Saila · 19-10-2010 04:33PM

arts degrees just got a whole lot more pointless

Ah-Watch · 19-10-2010 04:38PM

I'm on the fence about this..

I'm in college and paying my own way through college cos I can't get any funding however the majority of my friends get one and they piss it up 2 or more nights a week. It sickens me that I'm funding their drinking but theres not much I could do. They can sponge off whoever (yup thats what they're doing) but then for those who genuinely need a grant to be in college I would think it'd be unfair to take it away in that respect....

mink_man · 19-10-2010 04:38PM

ye got it wrong, the government want to double the registration fee to €3000 and cut grants by 7%.

LizT · 19-10-2010 04:38PM

smccarrick wrote: »

I don't really understand what the issue is here?
We are going to have to seriously look at our 3rd level sector, with the probability of a full return to fees within the next 2 years. This is aside from the government's appalling financial situation- its a simple fact, fees are being reintroduced in the UK- and the Student's Unions and Careers Guidance counsellors over there are actively advising their students to apply over here instead, if they are not in a position to pay fees.

Fees have been in the UK a while now, they're currently around 3k a year. The proposal now is that the cap be taken off fees, so that universities can charge anything up to 10k a year.

Adam · 19-10-2010 04:41PM

mink_man wrote: »

ye got it wrong, the government want to double the registration fee to €3000 and cut grants by 7%.

source?

Daisy Steiner · 19-10-2010 04:45PM

I'd like a source for anything/everything claimed in this thread

sensibleken · 19-10-2010 04:50PM

prinz wrote: »

Seriously though, how do you think students in other countries manage it?

In fairness, other countries dont have 13.5% unemployment with even the graduates having to emigrate to find work.

If they bring in a loan system how will graduates pay it off if theres no work for them

Bucklesman · 19-10-2010 04:53PM

Daisy Steiner wrote: »

I'd like a source for anything/everything claimed in this thread

All right then.

http://issuu.com/ditnews/docs/oct_2010_for_issuu

October's DIT News, came out today. Grants aren't gone, but it's going to get tight.

sensibleken · 19-10-2010 04:55PM

smccarrick wrote: »

Same way as we always did- through hard work and perseverance. Also- people can't afford to be picky- that call centre job, fast food job, supermarket job- may not be where we hope to end up, but its a job, it pays the bills, and it can be a stepping stone towards where we actually want to be.

I think youre over estimating the availability of part time work out there. My gf (phd student) is pulling in about €50 a week and would gladly take anything else going but its simply not enough work to go around.

all grants and funds for students are finished this year (maybe)

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