Multiculturalism has failed...

In before the Turks

That bolded paragraph doesn't mean that she believes multiculturalism has failed. At all.

[QUOTE=KINGVictor;68540045

On the other hand, I fully understand and acknowledge that the concept of multiculturalism as it is been operationalised in most western countries is quite deficient. Immigrants are not made to understand the fact that they live in a country which is different from their country of origin and that they have to comply with the laws.


More importantly, they are not sensitised about the vital importance of familiarising themselves with and appreciating the culture/traditions of the their host country. As such, a lot of immigrants think it is their God given right to have a huge measure of transferability...(so to speak) i.e. live in a foreign country as if they were at home.


...[/QUOTE]

What you have hhighlighted is what I think the REAL problem with multiculturalism is. I speak as someone who has been an immigrant 3 times so far in life as well as having what I call an inter-cultural background that has continued through adult friendships and family.

It is very, very hard to leave your cultural baggage behind you. I think that most when coming to a new country have an expectation of acceptance, equal opportunities and at at least a reasonable willingness to work as hard as the locals. What I have seen happen and has been a real source of division comes when cultural shock (inevitable) becomes interpreted as racism, xenophobia or just plain "they don't like me". The immigrant begins to seek refuge in familiarity, discards all things strange and different as unpalatable and before you know it, has moved into a neighbourhood of "their own kind" and mental ghettoisation at least, begins to happen.

By no means am I saying this is universal...I speak from my own experiences and would say I have been guilty to some extent of the same and it takes an awful lot of self confidence and friendly understanding from local people to overcome it. I remember being astounded at the cliquiness (sp?) of Irish girls when I was in college. It really depressed me and took a long time to see that it wasn't because I was different, but because I was an "unknown"! A close older friend very dryly explained that had I been from another part of Ireland or, like herself, 20 years older than everyone else, I might very well still experience the same thing!

What I am saying is that yes, I do believe multi-culturalism as a model is a non-starter..but the question then lies in to what extent a person has to assimilate without losing their sense of self? It is very easy to feel as though one's identity is being eroded when the majority is so very different, and especially if we have very little connection with those things that we take for granted as having shaped our understanding of the world. This can be anythng from attitudes to alcohol, food, dress, etc.

I agree the onus is on the immigrant to strike the balance, but it is not an easy one, especially if one's cultural behaviour maybe at significant odds to those of the host nation.

bonerm wrote: »

As a for instance I've heard that German footballer Mesut Özil has frequently been criticised by Germanys Turkish population for his decision to play for Germany rather than Turkey.

I mean the guy is German, born in Germany, grew up in Germany and wants to play for the country of his birth and yet there are German Turks who would criticise that decision? So much so that during the game between Germany and Turkey in Berlin this week he was audibly singled out and booed for the full 90mins by Turkish fans (the vast majority I understand were local Berliners). This does not sound like an integrated population to me?

I may be taking you up wrong, so sorry if I am. But what about the amount of English players that end up playing for Ireland. The situation you describe could easily be applicable to ourselves.

What about the amount of English born people that support Ireland?

Of course it failed. It always fails.
We're a self centred people by nature, much like every other animal/mammal on the planet.

Get a bunch of dogs of any breed. Have them live in one place for 7 years.
Then introduce another 7 year old dog from another pack and watch them fight.
That's territorialism covered.
Humanity, at its core, is no different.

Economic migrants are the worst kind.
They travel to another country and only expect to stay there for a few years. Get a bit of money together, sent a bit home, save a bit, and then move back home, get a half decent job and supplement their wages with their savings.
Unfortunately that rarely ever happens.

The reality is that they try to live on little or nothing in a country with a far higher cost of living than their own. They spend little time with the natives. Instead they live with their own countrymen, make little effort to integrate into the society they have chosen to live in because they expect to go home within a couple of years, and then meet someone, have a child, realise that things are not working out as expected and change their plans.

Unfortunately they have spent so much time refusing to integrate, and only associating with those of their own nationality/culture, they now find it difficult to integrate.

They struggle to learn the native language, and find themselves isolated from the natives because of this. Resentment now grows on both sides, despite the initial good will.

This is when then immigrants begin to seek out their own fellow settlers. They will look to find accomodation close to their fellow countrymen. Then the ghettos are formed. More resentment follows.

They're the good ones. Now for the bad ones.
The bad ones are those who enter a foreign country with absolutely no intention of ever leaving, or adapting to the local customs.
They bring their own customs and expect everyone else to adapt to their wants and needs.
As far as they are concerned, the locals are idiots for not having the same traits or beliefs. This set of immigrants believe they are above local laws and customs. Then they wonder why they are hated.

Then I got distracted and forgot my point.

It was something along the lines of; when you move to a country where people speak the same language as you, chances are you'll integrate quite well.
If you choose to adapt to the local customs and are willing to learn the local language, you will get along well.
If you respect the local customs, you will get along well.

However, if you walk around flaunting the local laws, then you're boned.
If you ignore the local customs and cry racism when the locals disagree with your behaviour, then you will not be well liked.

When in Rome, do as the Romans.