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Lenny Lovett · 15-10-2010 03:50PM

WeeBushy wrote: »

I'm disappointed with your flippant response. I went to the effort to provide evidence which you obviously didn't read properly, and all you can come back with is that. Pity.

They are examples of how fresh produce can and are contaminated. I like the way you just ignored all the rest of it and picked out examples that aren't grown in this country, even though the same principles apply.

Ok. I apologise for being flippant. TBH I had a look at the attached PDF, but it refers to the USA and, to be fair, they have many different potential hazards and pathogens than we would have because, as your article proves, we're talking about different fruit and veg to what would be grown here. As I maintained before (and still do) a common sense approach in this case would be preferable I think. I will take the time to read your PDFs but it looks a bit cumbersome so will have to leave it until over the weekend. Do you have access to any such material relating to Ireland? I have tried various searches but to no avail.

OhNoYouDidn't · 15-10-2010 03:59PM

Lenny Lovett wrote: »

Fair enough and thanks for that.

Do you agree with the policy of charging for school kids to have water at school and for that water to be restricted to 500ml in the morning and 500ml in the afternoon as is the new policy at some schools? Do you believe that schools should have to pay for water? I certainly don't. I have stated before that I believe households and business should pay for water but it should only be charged for on a pay by use basis ie metered. Schools and hospitals should be exempt. I doubt prisoners will have to pay for water so why should children at school. Our factory has it's own well and has no council/public water pipes to the premises but yet we are still expected to pay the full whack. Is that reasonable? I don't believe it is.

But thats the call of the headmaster of each individual school.

WeeBushy · 15-10-2010 03:59PM

Lenny Lovett wrote: »

Ok. I apologise for being flippant. TBH I had a look at the attached PDF, but it refers to the USA and, to be fair, they have many different potential hazards and pathogens than we would have because, as your article proves, we're talking about different fruit and veg to what would be grown here. As I maintained before (and still do) a common sense approach in this case would be preferable I think. I will take the time to read your PDFs but it looks a bit cumbersome so will have to leave it until over the weekend. Do you have access to any such material relating to Ireland? I have tried various searches but to no avail.

Most of the research in this area is done in America unfortunately, due to funding mainly. I will try to find more papers based in Ireland, and ask a couple of lecturers if the they have anything. However the principles do apply to Ireland. There are some differing concerns, but on the whole the principles are universal to all regions and produce. There are quite a few examples of produce grown in Ireland in there anyway. The first two papers are quite dense, but if you have time do read the last one.

Lenny Lovett · 15-10-2010 04:07PM

WeeBushy wrote: »

Most of the research in this area is done in America unfortunately, due to funding mainly. I will try to find more papers based in Ireland, and ask a couple of lecturers if the they have anything. However the principles do apply to Ireland. There are some differing concerns, but on the whole the principles are universal to all regions and produce. There are quite a few examples of produce grown in Ireland in there anyway. The first two papers are quite dense, but if you have time do read the last one.

I will have a read of them. I asked for papers pertaining to Ireland (or even the UK) because, as I said this morning, the EHO that I spoke to seemed to think there was little or no evidence in Ireland anyway.

Lenny Lovett · 15-10-2010 04:11PM

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

But thats the call of the headmaster of each individual school.

You're probably right but I don't feel the Headmasters should have to make that call. Every school going child should get as much drinking water as they want/need for free. Their parents shouldn't have the additional stress of having to shell out for it. If we were in Utopia and there was plenty of cash flowing around and our Politicians weren't skimming off expenses of a couple of hundred Euro a day as well as their salaries, I might see some justification for charging schools but right now I think it's disgusting. There are other ways to save money (ref: my point about Politician's expenses!)

WeeBushy · 15-10-2010 04:16PM

Lenny Lovett wrote: »

I will have a read of them. I asked for papers pertaining to Ireland (or even the UK) because, as I said this morning, the EHO that I spoke to seemed to think there was little or no evidence in Ireland anyway.

I find that very peculiar, people I've talked to in Teagasc and the FSAI would strongly disagree. Anyway I'll post the research from Ireland/UK when I get it.

WeeBushy · 15-10-2010 04:34PM

Was just sent this link by a lecturer:

http://www.safefood.eu/Global/Publications/Research%20reports/Fruit_and_Veg_CFR%20_Final.pdf?epslanguage=en

Its a report compiled by various advisory bodies in N. Ireland and ROI.

Haven't read it in full (its verrry long) but a quote from it he highlighted for me:

Fruit and vegetables are increasingly being recognised as an emerging vehicle for foodborne illness in humans. Traditionally meat, milk and egg products were the ‘usual suspects’. However, the consumption of fresh produce (fruit and vegetables) is linked, both epidemiologically and microbiologically to infectious intestinal disease. Nevertheless, this represents only a small proportion of the total number of reported cases. There are some features associated with fresh produce acting as vehicles of infection that should be noted: contamination often occurs early in the production process, e.g. via animal manure or contaminated water used during growth or harvesting; ingredients from many countries may be combined in a single dish making the specific source of contamination difficult to trace; fresh produce foods typically have fewer barriers to microbial growth such as salt, sugars or preservatives. Pathogens most commonly associated with fruit and vegetables include Salmonella, Shigella, E. coli 0157, Listeria, Campylobacter, Cryptosporidia and viruses such as Hepatitis A. One of the most commonly cited sources of outbreaks of food poisoning associated with fresh produce, is the contamination of lettuce with Salmonella spp. There are a number of sources of microbial contamination, all of which must be controlled. The key areas where contamination can occur are in the field; during harvesting and processing; and in the home. Steps to limit contamination and prevent spread of microorganisms are described in the report.

I'm not sure where your EHO is getting his ideas from, but there definitely not based on fact.

Lenny Lovett · 15-10-2010 04:49PM

Thanks for the Weebushy. Strangely enough, going by that piece, it looks like most, if not all, of the diseases mentioned there would be associated with organic farming methods...

WeeBushy · 15-10-2010 05:13PM

Lenny Lovett wrote: »

Thanks for the Weebushy. Strangely enough, going by that piece, it looks like most, if not all, of the diseases mentioned there would be associated with organic farming methods...

They might be associated with organic farming, but they are equally found in conventional farming. The whole report is basically about the risks within conventional farming. It does mention organic farming, in that is more strictly regulated, but the evidence is unclear as to whether that makes a difference in safety, in terms of contamination. Either way, as I said, the report focuses on conventional farming.

Southsider1 · 11-11-2010 01:37PM

These nuts may contain....Nuts..

Thousands of packets of chocolate nuts sold to raise money for charity have been withdrawn because they don't have a warning that they contain nuts.The 120g packets of chocolate-covered nuts are on sale at businesses across the country to raise funds for the Dublin Community Simon homeless charity.
However, the Food Safety Authority of Ireland (FSAI) has ordered that they be removed immediately.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/these-nuts-may-contain-nuts-2415810.html

Sparks43 · 11-11-2010 03:36PM

Lenny Lovett wrote: »

Just another example of the fine job our Department of the Environment etc are doing: This month the Wexford Meals on Wheels were donated a large quantity of fruit and Veg by the local farmers (a traditional harvest time gift) and this year they are forced to decline as under the food tracability regulations enforced by Environmental Health the vegetables cannot be used by them as they haven't been packaged and labeled with the farm of origin. Can't have the less fortunate and the elderly among us dying of carrot poisoning now can we? Take a bow Mr Gormley. Your Tsars are doing a sterling job. Mind how ye go now!:mad:

John_C · 11-11-2010 05:37PM

If the kids drank more than a liter of water at school, they'd be forever heading to the toilet.

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