MORE Red Tape

flutered

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Its still traceable to the farm though. The issue here is that the veg offered is not

at the most ther would be about 6 or 7 farmers involved, they all would not be supplying the same produce, traceibility is easy here, also could not some one take random samples for checking, which is all that is done anyway, now unless the earth in wexford contains something that the powers to be requires hideing.

AlekSmart

I thought we were all in the same EU but apparently not.

For sure Callan57,that`s up for discussion.

One of the defining elements of our recent enthusiasm for the EU and its myriad rules,regulations,treaties and whatnot is the zeal with which we embrace and enforce them to the n`th degree.

Modern Irish Political Administration now appears to spend as much time and effort preventing people from doing stuff such as work as it does creating or encouraging a work ethic.

A friend of mine,who runs a small motor repair business,is currently travelling through France and Spain.

He is absolutely livid at the numbers of his proffession who are able to carry on their trade in small villages,towns and cities throughout these countries,whilst if he even attempted to work in this manner he would be raided by as many "Agencies" as could be mustered in order to shut his business down.

Whether it be spurious auld sustainability guff or even more wildly unnecessary anti-productive pahlavah such as the 48Hr week Working Time Directive...the chances of Éire Teo managing to make anything of itself unless it starts waking up,are nil.

dashboard_hula

flutered wrote: »

at the most ther would be about 6 or 7 farmers involved, they all would not be supplying the same produce, traceibility is easy here, also could not some one take random samples for checking, which is all that is done anyway, now unless the earth in wexford contains something that the powers to be requires hideing.

Unfortunately, that isn't the point. There aren't any regulations out there at the moment to facilitate the adhoc labelling/tracing of produce for a small, specific purpose. The system that's there at the present is the product of multiple food scares, both real and imagined. It would be nice though.

Your gas! How many times growing up did you get poisoned by vegetables prior to all the labelling and bullsh1t that you advocate is soooo important? It's no wonder the country is where it is. Really...

Lenny Lovett -

This thread has an interesting topic, but you seem unable address any viewpoints different from your own other than to categorically dismiss them. I am not criticising you, I am criticising your logic. The country is not "the way it is" because of thorough food labelling techniques. It is not "all the Greens fault" that these regulations were passed. Ireland will not suffer culturally as a nation because a bunch of nice lads in Wexford couldn't send over a load of cabbages. So please, refute our points, debate them.

P. Breathnach

It seems that we have people in this discussion who favour light-touch regulation with scope for informal exceptions.

Sure, where's the harm in it?

dashboard_hula

P. Breathnach wrote: »

It seems that we have people in this discussion who favour light-touch regulation with scope for informal exceptions.

Sure, where's the harm in it?

Also true

Lenny Lovett

P. Breathnach wrote: »

It seems that we have people in this discussion who favour light-touch regulation with scope for informal exceptions.

Sure, where's the harm in it?

I'd prefer to call it common sense and there's no harm in that!

Scofflaw

Lenny Lovett wrote: »

No man! I'm bashing the ideals that it's safer and better to take a fresh vegetable and transport if a few hundred kms in order to be cleaned, wrapped and labelled when it doesn't have to be. You say yourself you are a Green supporter and most of the others who disagree with my point are also. And you all think that this kind of practice is good? I just don't understand the logic. There are people here assuming that the produce is contaminated but where is there any evidence of it? It's just a matter of a simple thing being turned into a major operation which is just typical of Ireland today. Making life complicated when it doesn't need to be. A carrot doesn't need all this extra bureaucracy does it FFS?!:mad:

You don't need to assume the produce is contaminated - you only need to assume that the produce could be contaminated. As to the transporting it a few hundred kms to be cleaned, wrapped, and labelled - no, I'm no fan of that, but that's clearly not something that always has to be the case, otherwise you couldn't buy a cut of meat from a butcher or a piece of fish from a fishmonger, or buy loose carrots off a market stall - and you can do all those things.

It's the case here because we're dealing with a vulnerable group, who have been identified as having certain habits in respect of food that make labelling and packaging more necessary than for the general population.

That has nothing to do with "being Green" - it's a case of ensuring that at-risk members of society are properly protected.

regards,
Scofflaw

Scofflaw

Lenny Lovett wrote: »

I'd prefer to call it common sense and there's no harm in that!

And was there any harm in applying such "common sense" to bank regulation?

regards,
Scofflaw

Lenny Lovett

Scofflaw wrote: »

And was there any harm in applying such "common sense" to bank regulation?

regards,
Scofflaw

Common sense should be applied across the spectrum not just to food handling and bank regulation. If our Government had an ounce of common sense we would not be in the mess we are in IMO! There was plenty of regulation on the banking sector over the past decade at least. It just wasn't monitored. Very little common sense was applied either. Who's responsible for that??? I'm still amazed that a Green supporter advocates transporting food half way across the country to get a label and a wash in chemicals.... Or am I?:rolleyes:

Maybe before the Greens got obsessed with protecting wild animals they could have looked at making food production for humans and the all important label system easier for farmers...

OhNoYouDidn't

Lenny Lovett wrote: »

Your gas! How many times growing up did you get poisoned by vegetables prior to all the labelling and bullsh1t that you advocate is soooo important? It's no wonder the country is where it is. Really...:rolleyes:

So what are you actually arguing here? That we should cease to have consumer protection on food? That farmers can be trusted if left to it (mad cow anyone?)? That resteraunts can be trusted to keep clean kitchens? Fast food places will store food correctly?

You are just making a lot of noise and no sound is eminating. What exactly is your problem? The concept of food safety or the idea that exceptions cannot be made when you want them to be made?

With respect, you are displaying the classic Irish mentality to the law. The rules should apply to everyone else. Regulation should be beefed up, but not in any area that impacts on me.

OhNoYouDidn't

Lenny Lovett wrote: »

Common sense should be applied across the spectrum not just to food handling and bank regulation. If

But what you are actually arguing for is not 'common sense'. Its bending the rules for the lads, which is EXACTLY the reason we are where we are.

Common sense says that you are more stringent when it comes to the old, sick and disabled when it comes to food safety. Not less.

Lenny Lovett

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

But what you are actually arguing for is not 'common sense'. Its bending the rules for the lads, which is EXACTLY the reason we are where we are.

Common sense says that you are more stringent when it comes to the old, sick and disabled when it comes to food safety. Not less.

Sigh... There's a big difference between fruit/Veg and Meat. I suppose meat could need to be tracable, chilled etc etc though It wouldn't bother me if it wasn't. I could tell if it was off without a label to tell me!. Veg, in general doesn't need such red tape dressed up as safety. It's hard to get food poisoning from vegetables. I spoke to an Environmental Health Officer this morning (with over twenty years service) and he says that "technically it is possible for someone to get contamination from vegetables however it is extremely rare". In his twenty years experience he has never come across a case and hasn't heard of any in Ireland.

I despair. If you guys are examples of the average Green Party member, it's no wonder we are where we are. God help us!

KerranJast

Lenny seems to live in an imaginary world with no lawyers or law suits. It only takes one screw up due to lax regulations for some ambulance chaser to have a field day. E&H regs are as much protection for SMEs as they are for customers.

OhNoYouDidn't

Lenny Lovett wrote: »

Sigh... There's a big difference between fruit/Veg and Meat. I suppose meat could need to be tracable, chilled etc etc though It wouldn't bother me if it wasn't. I could tell if it was off without a label to tell me!.

Good for you, but the same can't be said for kids or many of those who get meals on wheels though...

Lenny Lovett wrote: »

Veg, in general doesn't need such red tape dressed up as safety. It's hard to get food poisoning from vegetables. I spoke to an Environmental Health Officer this morning (with over twenty years service) and he says that "technically it is possible for someone to get contamination from vegetables however it is extremely rare". In his twenty years experience he has never come across a case and hasn't heard of any in Ireland.

You do understand the idea of circular logic. Maybe he hasn't heard of a case because of the regieme?

Lenny Lovett wrote: »

I despair. If you guys are examples of the average Green Party member, it's no wonder we are where we are. God help us!

Green Party? Moi?

So far in the last couple of weeks I've been accused of membership of the 32csm, eirigi, FF, Labour and now the Greens. I'm either doing something very right or very wrong on here....

Don't assume that someone like me who approves of a state scheme like food tracing is a government supporter, never mind a minority party that has nothing to do with its application.

Lenny Lovett

KerranJast wrote: »

Lenny seems to live in an imaginary world with no lawyers or law suits.

Ah! That must be it. Thanks for explaining where I am. As long as I don't suffer death by carrot!:rolleyes:

Riskymove

Lenny Lovett wrote: »

I despair. If you guys are examples of the average Green Party member, it's no wonder we are where we are. God help us!

I despair even more

if anyone is obsessed its you, with the Greens


its already been mentioned a few times but what have the Greens got to do with this issue?

OhNoYouDidn't

Lenny Lovett wrote: »

Ah! That must be it. Thanks for explaining where I am. As long as I don't suffer death by carrot!:rolleyes:

You are displaying a spectacular lack of common sense on this one.

Lenny Lovett

They're just talking on Liveline now about how the school kids must pay €90 per year for 1 litre of drinking water per day in school. One kid decided to bring his own bottle of water with him and is told he can't because his bottle might have germs. You couldn't make it up.:D FFS
I'm glad I don't have a four kids going to school or I'd have to cough up another water tax of €90 a head.

OhNoYouDidn't

Lenny Lovett wrote: »

They're just talking on Liveline now about how the school kids must pay €90 per year for 1 litre of drinking water per day in school. One kid decided to bring his own bottle of water with him and is told he can't because his bottle might have germs. You couldn't make it up.:D FFS
I'm glad I don't have a four kids going to school or I'd have to cough up another water tax of €90 a head.

And what party is the Minister for Education a member of?

Lenny Lovett

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

And what party is the Minister for Education a member of?

The Minister for Education is a member of the FF/Green coalition. The water charges are being brought in by Minister Gormley's Department not Education. The schools have to pass on the charges. So again the Greens mean tax! This is actually very serious. Imagine an average family that has to pay up for two or three kids now, just before Christmas. It's beyond a joke now. By all means they should make householders pay but going after little kids? That's just downright disgusting. Ye should be very ashamed of yourselves.

Riskymove

Lenny Lovett wrote: »

The water charges are being brought in by Minister Gormley's Department not Education. The schools have to pass on the charges. So again the Greens mean tax! .

what Gormley wants is 'domestic' water charges

commercial water charges existed prior to the Greens being in Government

the Government had exempted schools from paying water rates but were then given legal advice that this broke EU law and that schools must pay

...so again.....nothing to do with Greens or John Gormley!!!

are you willing to do any research before ranting?

OhNoYouDidn't

Lenny Lovett wrote: »

The Minister for Education is a member of the FF/Green coalition. The water charges are being brought in by Minister Gormley's Department not Education. The schools have to pass on the charges. So again the Greens mean tax! This is actually very serious. Imagine an average family that has to pay up for two or three kids now, just before Christmas. It's beyond a joke now. By all means they should make householders pay but going after little kids? That's just downright disgusting. Ye should be very ashamed of yourselves.

I believe thats what the kids call an epic fail...

P. Breathnach

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

... So far in the last couple of weeks I've been accused of membership of the 32csm, eirigi, FF, Labour and now the Greens. I'm either doing something very right or very wrong on here....

I had you down as a member of SF, partly on the basis that I am pretty sure that FG wouldn't let you in.

Scofflaw

Lenny Lovett wrote: »

They're just talking on Liveline now about how the school kids must pay €90 per year for 1 litre of drinking water per day in school. One kid decided to bring his own bottle of water with him and is told he can't because his bottle might have germs. You couldn't make it up.:D FFS
I'm glad I don't have a four kids going to school or I'd have to cough up another water tax of €90 a head.

The issue of water charges for schools was a feature of the Lisbon referendum, but even Kathy Sinnott managed to get a grip on how they came to be. We were offered an exemption on water charges for schools under the Water Framework Directive (which is the origin of the water charges in the first place) - indeed, we were offered it twice - and it was declined by the 2002-2007 FF/PD government.

You're really not doing your homework here.

regards,
Scofflaw

Lenny Lovett

Well ye can dress it up however ye like it's still disgusting that ye pick on the kids and deprive them of a basic ingredient of life such as water. Ye don't want pensioners getting fresh local grown vegetables and ye want to make children pay €90 a year for water. Have ye no shame at all. They say you can judge a country by how it treats it's children, and it's elderly.

Wolfe Tone

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I had you down as a member of SF, partly on the basis that I am pretty sure that FG wouldn't let you in.

Care to elaborate on that?

Riskymove

Lenny Lovett wrote: »

ye

?

you have gone over the edge at this point...Mods....time to lock i think...I can only follow moving goalposts for so long

Lenny Lovett

Riskymove wrote: »

?

you have gone over the edge at this point...Mods....time to lock i think...I can only follow moving goalposts for so long

What? You want to try and cover it up now? Nice. Why not justify the reasons for charging the kids for their water if you feel you can. Ore even the other silly rule that the kids can't take their own water to school instead of trying to kill the debate?

OhNoYouDidn't

Lenny Lovett wrote: »

What? You want to try and cover it up now? Nice. Why not justify the reasons for charging the kids for their water if you feel you can. Ore even the other silly rule that the kids can't take their own water to school instead of trying to kill the debate?

Who is trying to justify it? I think its a farcical situation. But its a farce that is 100% down to Fianna Fail.

The issue here is you throwing blame around like a looper.

OhNoYouDidn't

Lenny Lovett wrote: »

Well ye can dress it up however ye like it's still disgusting that ye pick on the kids and deprive them of a basic ingredient of life such as water. Ye don't want pensioners getting fresh local grown vegetables and ye want to make children pay €90 a year for water. Have ye no shame at all. They say you can judge a country by how it treats it's children, and it's elderly.

Is your international business headshop related?