Air traffic controller

Seosaimh77 · 01-10-2010 10:38AM

I reckon that since you were used to living off 18000 for two years, then losing 13000 a year out of 50000 (minus tax), you'll still have a lot more than the 18000 you were used to. Not nice, but still could be a lot worse. I'm not gonna do the exact calculations, but you'll have something like 30000 after tax. (been so long since I had a job I forget how to calculate tax properly)

jelly&icecream · 01-10-2010 10:56AM

Yea presuming its taken from your net pay you'll go from earning 64500 gross to 38,000 gross. This is including the 27% shift allowance.

It'll make some people think twice about taking a position if they get offered it certainly. The average graduate applying for it would be comparing this to the rate they'd get following taking up an average grad position and staying in it for 2+ years. They'd also have been earning more than 18k for the first 2 years years and wouldnt have the fear that if they dislike the job they'd have to buy themselves out of it at considerable expense.

Suppose you have consider it in the long term but a definite short term hit has to be taken. If you're starting out at 21 with no family/mortgage etc then its probably not the end of the world...if you're a bit older or have certain responsibilities then it should be carefully examined.

stereo_steve · 01-10-2010 11:36AM

Hey Rattrap,

Thanks for all the helpful advice so far.

Can I ask how salaries progress? Is it automatic after certain a time? Would there be any increases during the 50 month pay back period?

I am though to the second round and while I am still a long way away from getting the position, it is something I would have to think hard about if I was offered the job. Leaving my current employment for 6 years of hardship.

/Steve

jelly&icecream · 01-10-2010 11:45AM

rattrap wrote: »

Up until SCP7, students did not have to pay back training fees. It's a new cost saving measure-a pretty stupid one in my opinion! It only came in for SCP8 and after. That's why other ATCOs haven't had to pay it. It's obviously just something that you'll have to factor in for the first 50 months after you check out. Your salary will essentially be E52,000 per annum before tax. I'm sure if you had a bit of extra cash floating about that they'd take it off your hands. It's not like they're charging you interest that they'd lose out on if you pay the fees back sooner!

Actually judging by this I may be wrong above. Rattrap seems to be suggesting its deducted from your gross salary which would obviously leave you better off. Hopefully this is correct! Its all a tad confusing!

testicle · 01-10-2010 11:47AM

stereo_steve wrote: »

Hey Rattrap,

Thanks for all the helpful advice so far.

Can I ask how salaries progress? Is it automatic after certain a time? Would there be any increases during the 50 month pay back period?

I am though to the second round and while I am still a long way away from getting the position, it is something I would have to think hard about if I was offered the job. Leaving my current employment for 6 years of hardship.

/Steve

*sigh*

Quote from the Recruitment Guide.

The current basic Salary Scale for Operational Air Traffic Controllers is:
€50,805 – 52,413 – 54,027 – 55,642 – 57,249 – 58,869 – 60,475 – 62,088 –
€63,703 – 65,310 – 66,925 – 68,536 – 70,150 – 71,764 – 73,371 – 74,983 –
€76,599 – 78,209

All of the above points are exclusive of 27% shift allowance. All Students who successfully complete all aspects of the Student Controller Programme and are offered a contract as an Operational Air Traffic Controller will start at the minimum of the salary scale €50,805.

As with all Civil/Public Service & Semi-State pay scales, you go up a point for every year of service...

artful_codger · 01-10-2010 01:40PM

typically Irish money-obsessed attitude on this thread.

Paulyh · 01-10-2010 01:42PM

artful_codger wrote: »

typically Irish money-obsessed attitude on this thread.

Then go somewhere else :rolleyes:

People are just trying to figure out what they can expect to earn. What is wrong with that??

Please tell us so we can change our ways.....................

jelly&icecream · 01-10-2010 01:56PM

artful_codger wrote: »

typically Irish money-obsessed attitude on this thread.

God forbid people should want to plan ahead and ensure they can provide for their families etc before they embark on a low paid two year training programme.

artful_codger · 01-10-2010 02:07PM

jelly&icecream wrote: »

God forbid people should want to plan ahead and ensure they can provide for their families etc before they embark on a low paid two year training programme.

how about you plan ahead about how you're going to satisfy the entrance requirements and get an offer first, before you start planning about how you're going to spend the money.

Seosaimh77 · 01-10-2010 02:11PM

artful_codger wrote: »

how about you plan ahead about how you're going to satisfy the entrance requirements and get an offer first, before you start planning about how you're going to spend the money.

Well, if the money is inusufficient to live on for you and your family there's no point even trying to meet the entrance requirements is there? So it is very important to check these things out. No point going through several rounds of tests etc if the job is unsuitable.

So kudos to everyone with a bit of foresight, and boo hiss to the naysayers trying to have a go at responsible planning

jelly&icecream · 01-10-2010 02:22PM

artful_codger wrote: »

how about you plan ahead about how you're going to satisfy the entrance requirements and get an offer first, before you start planning about how you're going to spend the money.

Why should I take the recruitment process that far (obviously providing I was fortunate enough to get through) and possibly block someone else for whom the renumeration issue may not be a problem for from proceeding to the interview stage. On top of that it would be a waste of the mine and the IAA's time and money.

Are you honestly saying you wouldn't want as much information as could lay your hands on regarding a job and its conditions before going through a lengthy recruitment process and possibly, if you're fortunate enough, a lengthy training process?

Paulyh · 01-10-2010 02:43PM

artful_codger wrote: »

typically Irish money-obsessed attitude on this thread.

I guess this is an example of when not to feed the troll

Seosaimh77 · 01-10-2010 02:44PM

jelly&icecream wrote: »

Are you honestly saying you wouldn't want as much information as could lay your hands on regarding a job and its conditions before going through a lengthy recruitment process and possibly, if you're fortunate enough, a lengthy training process?

I dont think he's "honestly" saying that at all!!

Probably best to ignore codger's posts here since the two posts made to this thread have had nothing to do with the Air Traffic Controller process, seems more intent on trying to pass judgement on the people who are discussing it.

When is your stage two test? Mine is Oct 15th

jelly&icecream · 01-10-2010 02:48PM

Seosaimh77 wrote: »

When is your stage two test? Mine is Oct 15th

I'm on the 12th. Bright and early at 8am! Should be interesting. Guessing this one will test for more specific skills and will be more indicative of our suitability for the job.

artful_codger · 01-10-2010 02:55PM

jelly&icecream wrote: »

Why should I take the recruitment process that far (obviously providing I was fortunate enough to get through) and possibly block someone else for whom the renumeration issue may not be a problem for from proceeding to the interview stage. On top of that it would be a waste of the mine and the IAA's time and money.

Are you honestly saying you wouldn't want as much information as could lay your hands on regarding a job and its conditions before going through a lengthy recruitment process and possibly, if you're fortunate enough, a lengthy training process?

honestly? i would be weighing up the question of whether after two years training i'd be able to handle the immense pressure and responsibility of hundreds of peoples lives each day, thoughts of salary would be secondary to that. Consider whether you're suitable for the job, not suitable for the salary.

IMO if you're good at your job and have a passion for it, then the money will follow, no matter what area it's in. The most successful people in their industries have achieved great things because money was an afterthought for them.

Seosaimh77 · 01-10-2010 03:08PM

jelly&icecream wrote: »

I'm on the 12th. Bright and early at 8am! Should be interesting. Guessing this one will test for more specific skills and will be more indicative of our suitability for the job.

Yeah I think you're right.

I've tried to find out info on these tests but they are quite vague on purpose. Seems to be a lot of people involved with the tests throughout Europe saying straight out that you cant really prepare for these tests, with one expert saying the best preparation for them is a good nights sleep.

Looking forward to it though. It feels so far away, and is still only early in the whole process.

jelly&icecream · 01-10-2010 03:32PM

I suppose the ability to sleep in a log like manner and to react to unforeseen situations are important for the job anyway.

Martron · 01-10-2010 03:43PM

but not at the same time of course!!!

rattrap · 01-10-2010 08:14PM

jelly&icecream wrote: »

Actually judging by this I may be wrong above. Rattrap seems to be suggesting its deducted from your gross salary which would obviously leave you better off. Hopefully this is correct! Its all a tad confusing!

Sorry guys, was just assuming that the repayment is taken from gross-you know what they say about assumptions. I have no insight into this as the first group of SCPs who are part of the repayment plan have not fully qualified yet, so I don't know if it's being taken from gross or net. If I find out though, I will post and let you guys know.

Have to say in my opinion it's a terrible idea by the IAA. It seems to be a deciding factor for many people as to whether they're going to proceed with the recruitment process or not, which means that the company is no doubt missing out on some great, intuitive, natural controllers-the one's with the innate ability to do the job...Just my opinion...

Martron · 01-10-2010 10:51PM

it seems to suit the ATC who has no ties in general.

i.e. house etc.

i want to do it. i am going for it. its a long term plan. not something you can take lightly. repaying it when other courses did not have to is harsh. they should bump up the training allowance then

monkeypants · 02-10-2010 03:33PM

jelly&icecream wrote: »

I presume it'll come out of your net income after tax? It is a fairly big hit, especially considering you've been living on 18 grand for the previous 2 years. Nearly a third of your starting net income.

I don't think so. In any job that I've worked in, the deductions always come out before tax. I don't see how this would be any different. Besides, if they take it out after, won't they have to pay their own PRSI and such on the higher amount for no reason?

jelly&icecream · 02-10-2010 03:36PM

monkeypants wrote: »

I don't think so. In any job that I've worked in, the deductions always come out before tax. I don't see how this would be any different. Besides, if they take it out after, won't they have to pay their own PRSI and such on the higher amount for no reason?

Yea, thats a good point. Hopefully you're right.

monkeypants · 10-10-2010 05:59PM

Just started a new job last week and can't get time off to do the test. I've had to withdraw. Hope someone new gets a FEAST invite and the best of luck to everyone.

Seosaimh77 · 10-10-2010 10:24PM

monkeypants wrote: »

Just started a new job last week and can't get time off to do the test. I've had to withdraw. Hope someone new gets a FEAST invite and the best of luck to everyone.

Bummer - but at least you got a new job - congrats

Paulyh · 12-10-2010 06:00PM

Just back from doing the 2nd Phase test.............WOW!! that was bloody hard!! I dont think i did well at all

Although i thought i did crap at the apptitude test, but i a cant see myself getting close to a good mark this time.

Good luck to those who yet to take it and to those who already have.

Seosaimh77 · 12-10-2010 07:18PM

Paulyh wrote: »

Just back from doing the 2nd Phase test.............WOW!! that was bloody hard!! I dont think i did well at all

Although i thought i did crap at the apptitude test, but i a cant see myself getting close to a good mark this time.

Good luck to those who yet to take it and to those who already have.

Yikes - that's not good to hear just before you take the test. Was it really that hard? I'm doing it on Friday

Badger2009 · 12-10-2010 07:23PM

it's not easy, but there is no point worrying about it. It's best to just do it and see how it goes!

There is no preparation possible for it!

Seosaimh77 · 12-10-2010 07:27PM

Fair enough. Sure if there's no preparation that I can do then there really is no point worrying about it... Feck all I can do about it. Are you answering questions or performing tasks?

Badger2009 · 12-10-2010 07:34PM

Im not trying to be vague but it is a bit of both! I had a search on internet after mine and couldn't find anything to resemble the type of stuff it involves.

Freemount09 · 12-10-2010 10:32PM

How many people are sitting it together !??

Air traffic controller

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