Air traffic controller

jd83

Saw this

http://www.iaa.ie/index.jsp?p=126&n=414&a=960

For anyone interested in becoming a air traffic controller.

Berty

I wonder what this means:

IAA wrote:

"Students will receive an allowance during training."

Low paid or worse again.

Grupouva

2 Years is a long time to dedicate to a course, but then again thanks to clowen & co ill probably still be looking for work and on the dole 2 years from now. I wonder how many hours a week the course is?

At least compared to most of the joke fás courses theres a very real prospect of actually getting a proper job at the end of it. Im definitely going to try find out some more information about this...

skitzyspider

This sounds very interesting:) Does anybody know what kind of hours air traffic controllers work..pay etc? It would be a very interesting job but id say it would be extremely hard to get into:(

T-rev

they work all hours, days, nights, mornings, etc as some of the irish airports control some of the atlantic airspace too.

HigsBoson

Berty wrote: »

I wonder what this means:



Low paid or worse again.

Note on Student Controller Programme
Whilst actively engaged on the training programme Students will be paid a Training Allowance of €18,506 per annum (payable by credit transfer) less standard PAYE, Government Levies and PRSI deductions (Class A).
On attainment of an ICAO rating (licence), the Training Allowance will cease and Students will be paid an Operational Allowance of €50,805 per annum (payable by credit transfer) less standard PAYE, Government Levies and PRSI deductions (Class A) for the period during which they are exercising the rating.

From the site, seems like very good money.

the_big_kahuna

are there any qualified air traffic controllers who have done the training in Shannon and could give us an idea of what its like? Is it 5 days a week? Allowed home at weekends etc etc? and what the hours are like when qualified etc

I'm 50/50 as to whether to apply, mortgage etc being some of the cons! So would love to get some insight if at all possible! Thanks!

seamus

HigsBoson wrote: »

From the site, seems like very good money.

Yep, €18.5k per annum while training - far more than most students earn, and then a 27% shift allowance while doing "on-the-job" training, followed by an unbelievable salary when you're done.

A great opportunity for anyone if you're prepared to live in Shannon for two years and then be deployed in Shannon or Cork.

Especially good employment for young people in the Cork/Limerick/Kerry region as it doesn't take you far from home.

someday2010

According to the Indo salaries are huge although I think the articles exagerates salaries a little! But iti is a recession proof job provided somebody doesnt invent a computer that makes an atc obsolete!

''Figures this week from the Irish Aviation Authority (IAA) reveal that the top 10pc of Irish air traffic controllers in Ireland are earning between €170,000 to €230,000 a year, while the average pay is €160,000. ''


http://www.independent.ie/national-news/irish-controllers-get-double-the-us-pay-packet-2024487.html

danthefan

the_big_kahuna wrote: »

are there any qualified air traffic controllers who have done the training in Shannon and could give us an idea of what its like? Is it 5 days a week? Allowed home at weekends etc etc? and what the hours are like when qualified etc

I'm 50/50 as to whether to apply, mortgage etc being some of the cons! So would love to get some insight if at all possible! Thanks!

Surely you have nothing to lose by just applying? Go for it, if you don't want to continue with the process then don't.

the_big_kahuna

danthefan wrote: »

Surely you have nothing to lose by just applying? Go for it, if you don't want to continue with the process then don't.

I have nothing to lose alright , but i'm just looking ahead at the possibility that if I did get it and then passed the training, i'd possibly be based full time in Cork or Shannon, and I really wouldn't want that due to mortgage etc and living in Kildare. Dublin would be far more beneficial but I guess you wouldn't know until the time came around!

Anyone know what the training hours are in regards to days off / weekends etc??

skitzyspider

Anbody know what the exam is like? Or the hours during training? Any working air controllers out there who could give us some info plz:)

danthefan

The training is essentially full time, I have no idea what the deal with weekends is though.

More info on the recruitment process here: http://www.iaa.ie/files/2010/docs/corporate/20100729093701_Recruitment-Process.pdf

Elessar

Be advised lads it's no walk in the park. It is an extremely demanding job requiring intense levels of concentration for extended periods of time. If you have low attention threshold don't bother applying. It can be extremely stressful aswell, particularly during busy periods where there are planes everywhere, queing up in holding patterns etc etc. And you are doing this everyday.

There is absolutely no room for error either. A single mistake, even to put two aircraft too close to each other, can cost you your job. There is a reason ATC are paid so highly.

nevevix

i have to laugh at some of the posts on this thread!!!! hallarious! u cant just decide overnight 'oh i mite become an ATC' when you know NOTHIN about aviation etc etc.. & going 'oh do we get weekends off etc'? COME ON if u really want something u wont care if you have to work nite & day everyday to get there! do u really think they throw u 160k a year & expect it to be easy?? do u even think they would throw u 18k a year & expect it to be easy?? NADA....

They want people who are GENUINELY interested in aviation and ATC. people who are very intelligent with regards to understanding maths & physics. And people who are really really interested in training to be an air traffic controller. it is an *extrememly* tough course and even harder to get into!

google: NATS and play the game and see if u would be any good hahaha

rattrap

This isn't just a course with a qualification at the end. You're guaranteed a job; that is if you successfully complete it. The training program is 9:30-5:30 Monday to Friday. They don't find you somewhere to live and they don't dictate what you do in your spare time (so you can live at home and commute every day or go home on weekends).
First 12 weeks are classroom based (something like 8 subjects:navigation, air law, aircraft performance etc) with exams that you MUST pass (70% is a pass for the IAA). You then go onto simulator work. Tower; en-route and procedural. Each of these sections has a written exam and several practical assessments all the way through-again 70% pass. Then it's onto the rating training. This is what tells you where you'll be based. It'll either be Shannon, Cork or Dublin (one of the three state airports-but most likely Shannon). Ratings can be for high level en-route, low level, approach, terminal area, approach etc etc. You should be guaranteed your first rating within 2 years of joining the company.

As for needing to be interested in planes...You don't! You will learn as you go. Sure, it'd be an advantage if you really really love the idea of air transport and have wanted to do this job all your life. Air traffic control is about the safe, orderly, expeditious flow of traffic. So if you think your working style and personality are like that, then you've got an advantage. It does require shift work: this means early morning starts (6am in Dublin), night shifts (two in a week for Shannon workers), Saturday, Sunday, Bank holiday work, and of course someone has to work over the Christmas and Easter holidays.
As for the pay, if you get the job full time, I have this to say: there was a LOT of spin in the media this year about ATCO salaries. I can tell you that the basic salary for a newly qualified ATCO is around 48,000 basic before tax (don't get me wrong I think this is a great salary-I'm just trying to set the misconceptions straight). Shift gives you 27% and if you work all the hours God sends you on overtime, I'm sure you could make a lot more. Sure, the job is stressful sometimes and yes, it is antisocial, and of course you have the burden of hundreds of peoples lives in your hands every minute, but I don't think I could do anything else.

danthefan

rattrap - thanks for that.

Would you be able to give any insight into the aptitude tests that are done?

rattrap

danthefan wrote: »

rattrap - thanks for that.

Would you be able to give any insight into the aptitude tests that are done?

As far as I know, they're doing written tests before the computerised tests this year. I didn't do a written, and it's been a loooooong time since I did the aptitude test but from what I remember they were mostly to do with spacial relations and field awareness. For example: two shapes would move across the screen towards an intercept point and then suddenly disappear before they got there. You'd have to press a button at the time that you think that they would have intercepted. That kind of stuff. So, it's not a test you can study or plan for. I suppose you can't 'trick' the test. It's being used to find out if you have the innate qualities needed for ATC that can be built on and honed by the IAA for a specific purpose. Sorry, but that's about the only help I can give!

mrgardener

rattrap wrote: »

As far as I know, they're doing written tests before the computerised tests this year. I didn't do a written, and it's been a loooooong time since I did the aptitude test but from what I remember they were mostly to do with spacial relations and field awareness. For example: two shapes would move across the screen towards an intercept point and then suddenly disappear before they got there. You'd have to press a button at the time that you think that they would have intercepted. That kind of stuff. So, it's not a test you can study or plan for. I suppose you can't 'trick' the test. It's being used to find out if you have the innate qualities needed for ATC that can be built on and honed by the IAA for a specific purpose. Sorry, but that's about the only help I can give!

Hi rattrap, p.c. aside, would there be an age limit on someone starting this?
Would someone be looked on more favorably if they were starting at early twenties as opposed to mid thirties (me!). Do you know of anyone who started this career from scratch at my age?

rattrap

mrgardener wrote: »

Hi rattrap, p.c. aside, would there be an age limit on someone starting this?
Would someone be looked on more favorably if they were starting at early twenties as opposed to mid thirties (me!). Do you know of anyone who started this career from scratch at my age?

Age not really a problem I don't think, it's about who's best for the job really. I've heard of some scp students have been in their late 30s/early 40s and just decided to switch careers. A lot of scp's would be late 20s and older.

The only age constraint is you must be 21 before you can hold an ICAO ATC license-and therefore get a rating, but I don't think that'll be a problem for you!

the_big_kahuna

nevevix wrote: »

i have to laugh at some of the posts on this thread!!!! hallarious! u cant just decide overnight 'oh i mite become an ATC' when you know NOTHIN about aviation etc etc.. & going 'oh do we get weekends off etc'? COME ON if u really want something u wont care if you have to work nite & day everyday to get there! do u really think they throw u 160k a year & expect it to be easy?? do u even think they would throw u 18k a year & expect it to be easy?? NADA....

They want people who are GENUINELY interested in aviation and ATC. people who are very intelligent with regards to understanding maths & physics. And people who are really really interested in training to be an air traffic controller. it is an *extrememly* tough course and even harder to get into!

Just for your information - this is a career choice that I have been thinking about for over 2 years now, but never had the balls to go for it. Hence the questions I am asking to find out some answers about the course. And I am highly interested in Aviation - have been since I was about 3 years old.

Also, Not once did I nor anyone else say it was easy. For me, I have a family and a mortgage so I have to think about whats best for my family if i'm going to be moving away to do the course.

the_big_kahuna

rattrap wrote: »

This isn't just a course with a qualification at the end. You're guaranteed a job; that is if you successfully complete it. The training program is 9:30-5:30 Monday to Friday. They don't find you somewhere to live and they don't dictate what you do in your spare time (so you can live at home and commute every day or go home on weekends).
First 12 weeks are classroom based (something like 8 subjects:navigation, air law, aircraft performance etc) with exams that you MUST pass (70% is a pass for the IAA). You then go onto simulator work. Tower; en-route and procedural. Each of these sections has a written exam and several practical assessments all the way through-again 70% pass. Then it's onto the rating training. This is what tells you where you'll be based. It'll either be Shannon, Cork or Dublin (one of the three state airports-but most likely Shannon). Ratings can be for high level en-route, low level, approach, terminal area, approach etc etc. You should be guaranteed your first rating within 2 years of joining the company.

As for needing to be interested in planes...You don't! You will learn as you go. Sure, it'd be an advantage if you really really love the idea of air transport and have wanted to do this job all your life. Air traffic control is about the safe, orderly, expeditious flow of traffic. So if you think your working style and personality are like that, then you've got an advantage. It does require shift work: this means early morning starts (6am in Dublin), night shifts (two in a week for Shannon workers), Saturday, Sunday, Bank holiday work, and of course someone has to work over the Christmas and Easter holidays.
As for the pay, if you get the job full time, I have this to say: there was a LOT of spin in the media this year about ATCO salaries. I can tell you that the basic salary for a newly qualified ATCO is around 48,000 basic before tax (don't get me wrong I think this is a great salary-I'm just trying to set the misconceptions straight). Shift gives you 27% and if you work all the hours God sends you on overtime, I'm sure you could make a lot more. Sure, the job is stressful sometimes and yes, it is antisocial, and of course you have the burden of hundreds of peoples lives in your hands every minute, but I don't think I could do anything else.

Thanks for this rattrap. Clears up a few things! Much appreciated. I'll have to have a think before I decide on submitting an application

skitzyspider

Thanks Rattrap:) Im even more interested in this now..think I might be well suited.

What would a typical working week be like for you...hours, shift work etc?

shoegirl

Grupouva wrote: »

2 Years is a long time to dedicate to a course, but then again thanks to clowen & co ill probably still be looking for work and on the dole 2 years from now. I wonder how many hours a week the course is?

Erm, last time I looked most degrees were 4 years and some courses were 9-5 weekdays and Sat morning!

As for apprenticeships, most are weekdays Mon to Fri and then 4-5 evenings 6-9pm.

Plus you've no guarantee of a job after either - this is training for a real job.

The hours are long and the work is hard but the rewards are excellent - good money and a long steady career.

I wouldn't snipe at a 2 year training course for a job that good.

sinjin_smythe

Whats the storey with the online application form. It keeps askin me for a preferred phone number but i have already ticked the box for it? Its really annoying.

Thargor

Every blank box has to be filled in even if its nothing to do with you, put n/a everywhere theres a blank and select something random from every dropdown box you're not using.

sinjin_smythe

Thargor wrote: »

Every blank box has to be filled in even if its nothing to do with you, put n/a everywhere theres a blank and select something random from every dropdown box you're not using.

Ahh got it. Thanks Thargor.

rattrap

skitzyspider wrote: »

Thanks Rattrap:) Im even more interested in this now..think I might be well suited.

What would a typical working week be like for you...hours, shift work etc?

Well in both Shannon and Dublin it's an 8 day shift. 5 days on, 3 days off. In those 5 days you work about 45 hours. In Shannon you work 3 'days' and two 'nights'. In Dublin it's 4 days 1 night...sometimes 5 days. By days I mean during the sunlight hours. So you could start at 6am, 11am, 3pm etc. And nights start somewhere between 9pm and 11pm and go straight through the night til the following morning. Your shift depends on where you work: Dublin or Shannon. Nights are more important in Shannon as the traffic is early morning transatlantic over flights. Dublin is a terminal area only, so very few overflights. I mean at the end of the day, it's shift work and it's variable. One twist may not be the same as the next depending on staffing reqirements!

skitzyspider

rattrap wrote: »

Well in both Shannon and Dublin it's an 8 day shift. 5 days on, 3 days off. In those 5 days you work about 45 hours. In Shannon you work 3 'days' and two 'nights'. In Dublin it's 4 days 1 night...sometimes 5 days. By days I mean during the sunlight hours. So you could start at 6am, 11am, 3pm etc. And nights start somewhere between 9pm and 11pm and go straight through the night til the following morning. Your shift depends on where you work: Dublin or Shannon. Nights are more important in Shannon as the traffic is early morning transatlantic over flights. Dublin is a terminal area only, so very few overflights. I mean at the end of the day, it's shift work and it's variable. One twist may not be the same as the next depending on staffing reqirements!

Thanks Rattrap:) Sounds good to me...do you take turns then in regards to weekend work or would you always have to work at least one day over the weekend?

wylo

nevevix wrote: »

i have to laugh at some of the posts on this thread!!!! hallarious! u cant just decide overnight 'oh i mite become an ATC' when you know NOTHIN about aviation etc etc.. & going 'oh do we get weekends off etc'? COME ON if u really want something u wont care if you have to work nite & day everyday to get there! do u really think they throw u 160k a year & expect it to be easy?? do u even think they would throw u 18k a year & expect it to be easy?? NADA....

They want people who are GENUINELY interested in aviation and ATC. people who are very intelligent with regards to understanding maths & physics. And people who are really really interested in training to be an air traffic controller. it is an *extrememly* tough course and even harder to get into!

google: NATS and play the game and see if u would be any good hahaha

I have a friend who got it, who didnt care much for aviation at all before applying. Just a really good aptitude and work ethic. They don't want aerosexuals or aviation freaks, just very smart , hard working, normal civil service workers.
I think you may be disappointed yourself nevevix, the way your attitude has been so far in this thread, it doesnt seem you'd be make a good team worker. Dont be so quick to judge the likes of kahuna who could be far far smarter than you.

donkey balls

also the rating you get when finished training is regonised through out the world why do you think there is OZ/Kiwis working as ATCO here, Rattrap painted a real good picture of the working hours/conditions etc bit like an airline pilot.
people think it's a glamourous job untill getting up at mad o clock in the morning becomes a pain in the asre or flying freighters throughout the night, most jobs in the transport/aviation sector is shift hours inlcuding been on call working the xmas period etc,i have done my fair share of only having xmas day off over the years:p