UPC victory in piracy case

it didnt work in the uk and it wont work here. suing people and cutting them off isnt the answer.

The boys in monty python have the right idea

http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/01/23/free-monty-python-videos-on-youtube-lead-to-23000-dvd-sale-increase/ (i still wonder if thats a piss take though)

i reckon the internet is here and the music industry has to deal with it.

Alofthedunnes wrote: »

So what you reckon? Provide your stuff for free and hope people will buy it??

Provide your stuff for free and then if people like it they (or bars/clubs etc.) will pay to go to your gigs.

I'll be the first to admit that I use torrents to download TV shows that have already been shown on TV. I never download music as it's robbing the artists of valuable income.

I think that's whats referrred to as having your cake and eating it too.

to force the ISP's to stop illegal downloading.

1. Why is it up to ISP's to stop it, they are just providing a service to access the interweb.
2. ISP's can't stop it even if they wanted to, e.g. anonymous IP's

The music industry's approach since Napster came on to the scene has always been all stick, no carrot. I pay a yearly subscription to a file-sharing site and get all the downloads I want, in the quality I want, with the options I want. I don't particularly want to do this, it is illegal after all, but where's the industry's counter-offer? I'd be more than willing to pay a premium for an offically-sanctioned equivalent service. Even the best of the 'official' offerings, the iTunes store, is out-dated, not very user friendly, expensive, and doesn't offer great options.

The TV providers are at least starting to move with the times, with streaming and on-demand offerings (although there's still no reasonable, lawful alternatives to DVDs), but the music industry is stuck in the mud and can't seem to realise they have to move on

Alofthedunnes wrote: »

So there's no solution? Illegal downloading (on a mass scale) is here to stay?

A 3 strikes rule would make it hard for casual downloaders to get away with it. And some people would never pay for a VPN just to get pirated materials. But then theres direct passing on copies either in person or through IM, shared hosting online etc. They'll never be able to stop it without some low price legal alternative. I pirate less games now, partially cause I can afford them now, but also cause of services like Steam where I get games very cheap during sales. If they price it right they can stop a lot of mass downloading,

Alofthedunnes wrote: »

So what you reckon? Provide your stuff for free and hope people will buy it??

It might work for marketing stuff that's been around for ages (bringing it to a newer audience) but what about new up and coming acts? It's hardly going to work for them

How about doing live performances to earn your money and not expecting to make it from a copy of a copy of a copy etc etc.

We're already seeing a change in the revenue model. Prince and Radiohead, for instance, are two hugely high-profile acts that have released albums for free, largely because the ensuing publicity will ensure the success of touring and all that goes with it (merchandising etc). I'm curious as to whether we'll see a situation whereby album releases serve only to support a tour as opposed to the former opposite.

Well the downloading phenomena seems to have stripped people of any sense of respect for peoples property and find all sorts of excuses to justify theft.

I personally care not what people take, but i've seen musicians downloading gigs and gigs of apps - are these people even taking their life seriously? - no.

Having been on the receiving end of these void like successes in music (only working day and night for over 20 years now) have found that people don't go and buy the music if they like because the majority are lazy - it's too easy to forget to download a track among thousands you've stolen.

I was lucky enough to have sold some music when it was pretty much still physical only and can see the difference now as being a massive drop in income. As I haven't been going out live - where does that leave me... oh, in the trusting hands of belligerent thieving individuals.

If you can't afford it, and it's not yours, stop stealing - or keep stealing and don't let it worry your tiny little mind at night, i'm sure i might be able to afford to fix the boiler this year *prays*

Sadly also, because even when you own physical *actual purchased* copies of an album that some tart still nicks it... i'm on my 3rd copy (legit) of some albums.

Neurojazz wrote: »

Well the downloading phenomena seems to have stripped people of any sense of respect for peoples property and find all sorts of excuses to justify theft.

I personally care not what people take, but i've seen musicians downloading gigs and gigs of apps - are these people even taking their life seriously? - no.

Having been on the receiving end of these void like successes in music (only working day and night for over 20 years now) have found that people don't go and buy the music if they like because the majority are lazy - it's too easy to forget to download a track among thousands you've stolen.

I was lucky enough to have sold some music when it was pretty much still physical only and can see the difference now as being a massive drop in income. As I haven't been going out live - where does that leave me... oh, in the trusting hands of belligerent thieving individuals.

If you can't afford it, and it's not yours, stop stealing - or keep stealing and don't let it worry your tiny little mind at night, i'm sure i might be able to afford to fix the boiler this year *prays*

Sadly also, because even when you own physical *actual purchased* copies of an album that some tart still nicks it... i'm on my 3rd copy (legit) of some albums.

I dont think anyone argues that things have changed, but they have. the music industry and musicians have to find the silver lining to this particular cloud. Giving out about and threatening to sue people over it - like the music industry has done up to now - wont fix it. The other side is that the internet has helped people reach many they never would have reached before, and taken the monoply of distribution out of the hands of the major labels.

From a technical point of view yes there is no solution. Tunneled encrypted proxies and distributed networks when widespread will make even quantifying impossible, let alone stopping it. After 12 or so years the music industry still hasnt been able to come up with a viable product. What efforts they have made have only turned people further away (DRM that spies on you, breaks things).

Their metric for their losses are laughable. Do you really think teenagers with €5000 woth of music on their computer would ever really have enough money to pay a fraction of that if illegal downloading wasnt available? Assuming that all €5000 is a real material loss is nonsense and they know it.

People have a fixed budget to entertainment. Young people especially have a voracious appetite for music though conversely the least ability to pay for what they want. Though it pales compared to music companies appetite for ever bigger profits. Right now they arent getting their slice of that entertainment budget through sheer stubborness.

I will say this. If evey person sharing that music was somehow magically disconnected the companies wouldnt see one extra penny. They untapped revenue they think is there is merely a phantasm. No more real than the digital bits on a hard drive that make up their product. Instantly copied, shared, deleted. Try doing that with a car or a TV! Of course thats their real problem. They sell an unphysical product. An idea, that used to be physically tied to a hard media (vinyl, tape, cd). The hard part has evaporated and its a difficult thing getting people to pay for an idea.

Neurojazz wrote: »

That also, but then stuffed them being able to get momentum via the lavish PR and advertising - is that a balancing force?, the bonus that the big labels had was that it was a centralized service - now it's a fragmented mess with few clues as to where to start in the minefield of music.

Getting all that stuff sorted by an individual is almost as arduous as a journey into self discovery.

i think it'll even out - people will find out just how hard distro is to do properly, and then revert back to those who know how to do it best. But - it doesnt get away from the fact that some forward thinking is now required by all concerned.