Fitch wants to see mortgage foreclosures

Noreen1 · 09-10-2010 06:37PM

It's true that some people were foolish during the boom, and took out exorbitant loans. However, it is also true that our "financial experts" :rolleyes:(God help us!) - who, unlike the average Joe in the street, had presumably some training in economics - got the maths very seriously wrong!!
Hence, I would expect that greater knowledge should have led to greater responsibility.

Now, it might suit "Fitch" spokespersons if there were more foreclosures - but said foreclosures would be a personal disaster for the families involved.
Realistically, they would also place a greater burden on the state (ie. You and me!), as the need for social housing increased - or, more likely, exploded!

Therefore, proposals for more foreclosures cannot be said to have either the best interests of either the Country, or individual citizens at heart.
I leave you to draw your own conclusions as to why such suggestions are being made........

IMO, a far more realistic proposal would be for mortgages to be re-negotiated, where possible. Better that a family is allowed to keep the family home, thus avoiding the need for social housing - and reduce the payments made during to recession, gradually increasing the payments made as the individuals income increases when the recovery starts.

Or, to put it another way: I know of people who took out 25 year mortgages for 30,000 27/28 years ago - at what would now be classed as exorbitant mortgage rates.
They repaid the mortgage at £24/25 a week. That was a serious chunk out of their salary 28 years ago, but it was very small change 3 years ago.
To put it in context, if said homeowners had the opportunity to repay, say £20 per week for the first 5 years, rising to £25, then £30 as incomes increased - then the banks would still end up getting their money, there would be no extra cost to the taxpayer associated with additional social housing, and people/families would still have a home......

It seems to me to me a more reasonable option than the current waffle being spouted by "Fitch" et al.

JMO.

Noreen

09-10-2010 06:42PM

I'm expecting there to be a dose of hyperinflation soon as a direct result of the QE money printing and the "currency war" or the race to devalue. Both of which will eventually cause major price inflation, just look at commodity prices.

whitesands · 09-10-2010 07:18PM

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

And for those that say firesales are the answer, that is akin to selling the country to the highest bidder... which is below the long term economic value. Firesales will only enable the rich to buy up the country cheaply, sit on it and sell it back to us at an inflated price down the road. The same people complaining about the banks now, will be the same people complaining about the high prices for services, property etc. in 10 to 15 years.

The country sells off the family silver at its peril.

Eh, we have no silver, we have a load of property.

And long term economic value, seriously, you fell for that? We have over 300000 empties, we can NOT bottom till we clear all that stock. The LTEV is only what someone is willing to pay, not what the Gov tells us they would like it to be in 10 years time.

The long term economic value, the banks are solvent, the fundamentals are sound etc etc, it's all bullsh1t & the majority are screwed.

Guess what the bond market thinks of the LTEV, they don't, they know it's nonsense.

Prepare for default, it's inevitable at this stage. We'll have the firesales forced on us then & it won't be pretty, well, for most people anyway.

up for anything · 09-10-2010 07:48PM

God damn the changeover to flat screen tvs. It makes it really difficult to get a decent cardboard box now.

LeixlipRed · 09-10-2010 07:55PM

It's abhorent right wing enitities like these chaps and IBEC (head of IBEC said this week in a matter of words that a rise in unemployment was good, shows how "flexible" the economy is) that make me want go on a massive murder spree.

bobblepuzzle · 09-10-2010 08:01PM

Nobody wants to see families thrown out of their homes.... in fact Ireland is unique in the sense that our constitution go's to extraordinary lengths to protect the family home.... It is extremely difficult for a bank to obtain a court order forcing eviction.

That said, a lot of people did buy homes they could barely afford then with little or no thinking into the future... ie: If we run into problems such as redundancy, do we have a way out? A lot of people signed for 100% mortgages with the obligatory text "If you fail to keep up repayments your home may be at risk...."

Personally I have little sympathy for anyone who accepted a huge mortgage that they clearly couldn't afford with no planning into the future whatsoever

fastrac · 09-10-2010 08:06PM

Did Fitch mention anything about putting some of the clueless Bankers in jail.When I see some of them in orange overalls and leg irons and the government calling a halt to the guys with the gold plated pensions awarded to them despite total failure to do the job they were paid handsomely for I will listen to Fitch.

galwayrush · 09-10-2010 08:07PM

Cmdr Keen wrote: »

Personnally I have little sympathy for anyone who accepted a huge mortgage that they clearly couldn't afford with no planning into the future whatsoever

But our Government kept telling us we were the envy of Europe with no end in sight for the Celtic Tiger, and if it should ever end, it would be a soft landing......:rolleyes:
People wanted their own homes, they paid market value for them at the time, the watch dogs of our financial houses allowed the lending rules to be bent .People understandably bought into the dream of having their own home while the Government aided the prices to spiral out of control.

bobblepuzzle · 09-10-2010 08:14PM

galwayrush wrote: »

But our Government kept telling us we were the envy of Europe with no end in sight for the Celtic Tiger, and if it should ever end, it would be a soft landing......:rolleyes:
People wanted their own homes, they paid market value for them at the time, the watch dogs of our financial houses allowed the lending rules to be bent .People understandably bought into the dream of having their own home while the Government aided the prices to spiral out of control.

Most people actually did it right... they could well afford it etc but unfortunately faced redundancy or whatever

But others, particularly first time buyers took out 100% mortgages, and while on paper they could afford the repayments, it was cutting it very thin... then along comes a baby for example... and all of a sudden they are like "sh!t, we can barely afford to live here now"... (especially with a newborn since the majority of couples are both working... and they need to pay someone to look after the child)

galwayrush · 09-10-2010 08:20PM

Cmdr Keen wrote: »

Most people actually did it right... they could well afford it etc but unfortunately faced redundancy or whatever

But others, particularly first time buyers took out 100% mortgages, and while on paper they could afford the repayments, it was cutting it very thin... then along comes a baby for example... and all of a sudden they are like "sh!t, we can barely afford to live here now"...

True, i know of a few examples where people bought houses purely because they would realise a nice percentage profit within 6 months to a year. They borrowed the deposit from family to get their mortgages , hoping that when they sold, they could pay back their family and have enough left over for an honest deposit to buy again.. Worked fine for a few years until the house of cards came tumbling down. Agree, hard to have sympathy for irresponsable people who secured mortgages on false pretences.

09-10-2010 08:33PM

galwayrush wrote: »

True, i know of a few examples where people bought houses purely because they would realise a nice percentage profit within 6 months to a year. They borrowed the deposit from family to get their mortgages , hoping that when they sold, they could pay back their family and have enough left over for an honest deposit to buy again.. Worked fine for a few years until the house of cards came tumbling down. Agree, hard to have sympathy for irresponsable people who secured mortgages on false pretences.

Unfortunately, those are the very people that played a major hand in inflating the bubble in the first place, together with those who bought houses instead of other financial produces for their pensions.

I expect it's householders in these catagories where Fitch expects the foreclosures to take place.

A future timebomb when many of these people reach retirement without any savings.

th3 s1aught3r · 09-10-2010 08:50PM

Cmdr Keen wrote: »

Personally I have little sympathy for anyone who accepted a huge mortgage that they clearly couldn't afford with no planning into the future whatsoever

But people needed houses to live in. It was hardly their fault that the prices were inflated beyond belief due to government policy and greedy developers.

bobblepuzzle · 09-10-2010 09:03PM

th3 s1aught3r wrote: »

But people needed houses to live in. It was hardly their fault that the prices were inflated beyond belief due to government policy and greedy developers.

Rent then or buy a cheaper property... simples

Ronin247 · 09-10-2010 09:07PM

I dont see the government letting it happen simply because as long as people have a small bit of hope they will not revolt.If people lose everything there could be a revolution.

I would like to see this failure because it may finally cause us to get off our arses and do something about this class system that keeps the elite safe and warm while the rest have scraps to live on.

I wouldnt like to see a total bailout because I didnt over extend myself and I have (for the moment) a job so I would end up paying for others mistakes even more than I am at the moment

Stinicker · 10-10-2010 02:53PM

galwayrush wrote: »

But our Government kept telling us we were the envy of Europe with no end in sight for the Celtic Tiger, and if it should ever end, it would be a soft landing......:rolleyes:
People wanted their own homes, they paid market value for them at the time, the watch dogs of our financial houses allowed the lending rules to be bent .People understandably bought into the dream of having their own home while the Government aided the prices to spiral out of control.

People is this country are total sheep, As a rule I do not trust the Government with anything especially the Public service. Yes people here blindly entrust our Government with.

a) Healthcare, they trust a government run bureacracy with their most important thing, their life and health.

b) Money, people here have blindly trusted the Government with all their savings since 2008 under the Banking guarantee, the state is broke yet they still trust the government. Anyone with hindsight has moved their money offshore.

c) Education, how anyone could entrust their children to the state to face a liberal brainwashing is beyond me. When I have children they will be educated privately with Religious values where the importance will be on education and not on respecting Ethnic Minorities, Gay Rights and Political Correctness.

d) Security, The Gardai are a failed entity and do not provide adequate security for the state, there main emphasis is on overtime and catching people doing a few KM's over the speed limit. Criminals are not punished and if I were to shoot dead an intruder I would actually be in the wrong and not the scumbag, not that, that would deter me anyway.

People need to learn to question authority and never take anything at face value. Generally if the Government says one thing you are better going the opposite direction.

Any fool with some brain cells could see that Ireland was a false economy and as economy cannot be in good shape unless there are boat queued up awaiting exports.

Ireland was in good shape up until about 2001 and had we changed Government in 2002 none of this would ever have happened. The Government effectivly bought the 2002 and 2007 elections with the promise of the SSIA in 2002 and the maturing of the SSIA in 2007 which poured over €14billion into the economy, most banks then offered huge mortgages on these matured SSIA accounts, and foolishly many people partook in them.

There is no government in my eyes and everyman needs to fend for himself in our lawless society, avoid paying taxes and but emphasis on self sufficency and number one security, the fact the Gun ownership is so heavily regulated in Ireland is a sign of the sort of oppression this Government would like to keep the people in. In the United States the private Millitia are the checks and balances that keeps the Federal Government in its place.

ILA · 10-10-2010 02:57PM

I hope the fecking Real IRA go after these lads as well as the Banks!

galwayrush · 10-10-2010 03:01PM

ILA wrote: »

I hope the fecking Real IRA go after these lads as well as the Banks!

I hope the Real IRA and those bad bankers all go away... forever.

Stinicker · 10-10-2010 03:04PM

ILA wrote: »

I hope the fecking Real IRA go after these lads as well as the Banks!

Well Fianna Fail are Irish and through some perverse type of thinking (similar to battered wife syndrome) that because they are Irish it is okay for them to destroy the country. Sort of like they are scumbags but at least they are our scumbags.

The sad thing is that if Ireland was under British Rule today and what is happening was happening every single person would be united against them and they would be proper action taken against them as was taken from 1916 to 1922.

Just because Fianna Fail are Irish should not excempt them from justice and the people need to stand up and be counted and if Fianna Fail does not go voluntarily then the people should arm themselves and be prepared for civil war against the state.

JupiterKid · 10-10-2010 07:10PM

Fitch are somewhat harsh in their recommendation but the fact remains that for the moribund property market to ever have a hope of restarting in the medium to long-term, house prices will have to bottom out and fire sales and repossession will have a part to play in that.

That said, families should be given every option to renegotiate their mortgages so long as there is a possibility of them paying it back realistically.

There should also be a series of graduated supports to assist homeowners in difficulty to return to renting or social housing. For too long the excuse of government in this couhnry placed home ownership above all else and raised peoples' expectations too high. There were many schemes rolled out in the past 20 years to assist low income households to buy their homes when in reality home ownership was not a viable or sustainable option for them.

Stinicker wrote: »

....c) Education, how anyone could entrust their children to the state to face a liberal brainwashing is beyond me. When I have children they will be educated privately with Religious values where the importance will be on education and not on respecting Ethnic Minorities, Gay Rights and Political Correctness.

So I suppose religion isn't brainwashing then?:rolleyes: Teaching your chidren to be bigots is a good idea?

cypharius · 10-10-2010 07:50PM

Stinicker wrote: »

People is this country are total sheep,

Stopped reading there.

Amhran Nua · 10-10-2010 09:19PM

galwayrush wrote: »

True, i know of a few examples where people bought houses purely because they would realise a nice percentage profit within 6 months to a year. They borrowed the deposit from family to get their mortgages , hoping that when they sold, they could pay back their family and have enough left over for an honest deposit to buy again.. Worked fine for a few years until the house of cards came tumbling down. Agree, hard to have sympathy for irresponsable people who secured mortgages on false pretences.

That's more or less flipping, which is where you put down a deposit on the plans, wait for the two years for the estate to be built, then repay your deposit when you sell the house, collecting a nice profit in the meantime without ever needing a full mortgage. By reducing the supply of properties on the market it artificially helped drive prices northwards.

What agencies like Fitch, the government, and the banks are missing is a clear view of the bigger picture. If people have jobs, they can afford to repay their full mortgage, no foreclosure required. Why haven't we got an all-out drive to create employment in Ireland, support new enterprise, attract FDI, and why haven't we had one since 2006? Think what could have been done with even a tenth of the money that was shovelled down Anglo's endless maw.

whitesands · 10-10-2010 09:29PM

cypharius wrote: »

Stopped reading there.

That's why we are screwed, and why I no longer care what happens to people.

If people are too dumb & lazy to understand how they are getting screwed, it's hard to have sympathy for them.

Every man for himself boys & girls, game feckin on within 6 months :cool:

stovelid · 10-10-2010 10:18PM

whitesands wrote: »

Every man for himself boys & girls, game feckin on within 6 months :cool:

Is that when you move out of your ma's?

Helix · 10-10-2010 10:28PM

henryporter wrote: »

I'd like to see some of them grubby little f*cks tossed out of their homes to see how they'd like it - how dare they think they have the right to determine if people should potentially be made homeless just so it fits with some perceived model of good economics

if they cant afford the houses theyre living in then they should be turfed out

just like everyone else

people living beyond their means is what has them in trouble, not pepole looking to call in the money theyre owed by those people

whitesands · 10-10-2010 10:57PM

stovelid wrote: »

Is that when you move out of your ma's?

I actually sold property in 06, moved the money into bullion & moved back in with the mother

Laugh away buddy, I doubled my money, now waiting for default & bargains :cool:

I was 1 of about 500 people marching against NAMA 2 years ago, the lack of interest in opposing NAMA sickened me, I'm looking after me & mine, the rest of you can look after yourselves...

I used to be proud to be Irish, now I'm ashamed, feckin bailouts allround :rolleyes:

stovelid · 10-10-2010 11:07PM

whitesands wrote: »

Laugh away buddy

I'm not your buddy?

Dudess · 10-10-2010 11:15PM

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Wait a minute!

You mean people are going to start losing their homes because they can't keep up repayments? Like they say on every piece of paperwork that you sign when applying for a mortgage?

Amazing :eek:

Stinicker wrote: »

However I have no pity for a person who borrowed money and now cannot repay it

Helix wrote: »

if they cant afford the houses theyre living in then they should be turfed out

What if they lost their jobs?

Stinicker wrote: »

c) Education, how anyone could entrust their children to the state to face a liberal brainwashing is beyond me.

What the fuk are you on about? Oh and if you're really that religious, you shouldn't be having sex before marriage.

whitesands · 10-10-2010 11:18PM

stovelid wrote: »

I'm not your buddy?

No sh1t, your some saddo who has 15000 posts on boards, your a winner, don't let anyone tell you otherwise

Super-Rush · 10-10-2010 11:51PM

whitesands wrote: »

No sh1t, your some saddo who has 15000 posts on boards, your a winner, don't let anyone tell you otherwise

and you won't be increasing yours in this thread. Do not post in it again.

Helix · 11-10-2010 03:15AM

Dudess wrote: »

What if they lost their jobs?

then you sell up and buy something you can afford with the money

Fitch wants to see mortgage foreclosures

Comments