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Fitch wants to see mortgage foreclosures

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Comments

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,539 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    Cross the pond. They predict 4 million in 2010.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    How the Fitch Stole Christmas.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,102 ✭✭✭Stinicker


    Looks like there will be some cheap homes on the market as Banks dispose of them to make up the shortfall owed. This can only be a good thing, as for anyone owing money, they knew what they were getting into and a mortgage is for life not just for Christmas, or until you have it paid off.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭mickydoomsux


    Wait a minute!

    You mean people are going to start losing their homes because they can't keep up repayments? Like they say on every piece of paperwork that you sign when applying for a mortgage?

    Amazing :eek:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,647 ✭✭✭✭El Weirdo


    But what does Abercrombie want?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,089 ✭✭✭henryporter


    I'd like to see some of them grubby little f*cks tossed out of their homes to see how they'd like it - how dare they think they have the right to determine if people should potentially be made homeless just so it fits with some perceived model of good economics - if they knew anything about economics we wouldn't be in this heap of sh1te that we are in. Don't get me wrong - people overspent on houses they couldn't afford, but to see these gits talk about repossession as an antidote to depression makes my blood boil.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,102 ✭✭✭Stinicker


    El Weirdo wrote: »
    But what does Abercrombie want?

    A smack in the mouth.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,813 ✭✭✭themadchef


    I wont have a pot to cook in, let alone piss in after the budget.

    When these people are fúcked out on the street who do you think will pick up the tag for their social housing?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,740 ✭✭✭chughes


    These Fitch people are such [EMAIL="b@stards"]b@stards[/EMAIL].

    A smug one on the news earlier saying Irish banks are going to have to increase repossessions.

    Banks shovelled money at people and now they expect people to take all the pain.

    As far as I'm concerned, Fitch can go forth and multiply with itself.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,925 ✭✭✭th3 s1aught3r


    chughes wrote: »
    These Fitch people are such b@stards.

    A smug one on the news earlier saying Irish banks are going to have to increase repossessions.

    .

    Saw a guy from Fitch too. Saying that it would be a 'good thing' if banks started repossessing houses in Ireland. Fair enough you can say that people should have been more careful about the loans they took out, but on a moral and humanitarian level it all stinks to high heaven, theres nothing 'good' anywhere near these guys


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  • Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Sure, isn't that how the bank (owners) became so rich after the great depression, they bought up many of the foreclosed properties at rock bottom prices using their personal banks to finance the deals.

    Then they made some real money by selling them on a decade later!

    They won't be able to repeat that trick as this depression will be much longer.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,925 ✭✭✭th3 s1aught3r


    Sure, isn't that how the bank (owners) became so rich after the great depression, they bought up many of the foreclosed properties at rock bottom prices using their personal banks to finance the deals.

    Then they made some real money by selling them on a decade later!

    They won't be able to repeat that trick as this depression will be much longer.

    I dont see why the banks will want to throw people out of their homes, they wont be able to sell very many of them
    Plus they would be evicting the people (taxpayers) who bailed them out :mad:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,933 ✭✭✭Logical Fallacy


    I'd like to see some of them grubby little f*cks tossed out of their homes to see how they'd like it - how dare they think they have the right to determine if people should potentially be made homeless just so it fits with some perceived model of good economics - if they knew anything about economics we wouldn't be in this heap of sh1te that we are in. Don't get me wrong - people overspent on houses they couldn't afford, but to see these gits talk about repossession as an antidote to depression makes my blood boil.

    Part of the huge bank debt is due to people inability to pay back their loans and house payments etc.

    Yeah, we should just let all these people stay living in houses they can't pay for. That makes sense.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 544 ✭✭✭Pookah


    Part of the huge bank debt is due to people inability to pay back their loans and house payments etc.

    Yeah, we should just let all these people stay living in houses they can't pay for. That makes sense.

    Considering all the taxpayers money the banks are getting perhaps they could come to some sort of arrangement, instead of putting people out of their homes.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,933 ✭✭✭Logical Fallacy


    Pookah wrote: »
    Considering all the taxpayers money the banks are getting perhaps they could come to some sort of arrangement, instead of putting people out of their homes.

    Look, i hate to break it to people, but after you pay Tax to the government it is no longer "taxpayers money", it's not as if this was a charitable donation you have made.

    I'm getting sick of this "we own the banks" bull****. We don't.....lets all move the **** on.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,243 ✭✭✭✭Jesus Wept


    Wait a minute!

    You mean people are going to start losing their homes because they can't keep up repayments? Like they say on every piece of paperwork that you sign when applying for a mortgage?

    Amazing :eek:

    It's not quite that simple, there will be a subset of people that have their taxes increased to pay for the bank's bad commercial debts/loans and then subsequently they don't have enough money to pay their own mortgage.

    Hardly fair.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 544 ✭✭✭Pookah


    Look, i hate to break it to people, but after you pay Tax to the government it is no longer "taxpayers money", it's not as if this was a charitable donation you have made.

    I'm getting sick of this "we own the banks" bull****. We don't.....lets all move the **** on.

    Sure, let's all move on. Bring on the foreclosures!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,933 ✭✭✭Logical Fallacy


    The-Rigger wrote: »
    It's not quite that simple, there will be a subset of people that have their taxes increased to pay for the bank's bad commercial debts/loans and then subsequently they don't have enough money to pay their own mortgage.

    Hardly fair.

    No tax increase will be brought in to the point the people are suddenly missing a mortgage payment from their monthly income, wait and see.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,815 ✭✭✭✭galwayrush


    Part of the huge bank debt is due to people inability to pay back their loans and house payments etc.

    Yeah, we should just let all these people stay living in houses they can't pay for. That makes sense.

    A lot of people can't pay their loans because they lost their jobs, no NAMA bailout for them.
    They get thrown out of their houses, the State then has to house them, at more then likely a higher cost.


  • Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    No tax increase will be brought in to the point the people are suddenly missing a mortgage payment from their monthly income, wait and see.

    Don't forget that many people have have had their wages reduced as well.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,243 ✭✭✭✭Jesus Wept


    No tax increase will be brought in to the point the people are suddenly missing a mortgage payment from their monthly income, wait and see.

    If you have 600e in your account and the payment is 700e, the payment won't go.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭R P McMurphy


    Look, i hate to break it to people, but after you pay Tax to the government it is no longer "taxpayers money", it's not as if this was a charitable donation you have made.

    I'm getting sick of this "we own the banks" bull****. We don't.....lets all move the **** on.

    And when tax is paid who exactly has ownwership over it. The state, which is an organisation established by the people for the people ... supposedly at leastso it is still taxpayers money.

    As for owning the banks, the sate will more or less own the entire banking system soon. Again the state is in fact the people of Ireland so I don't know what your point is


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 326 ✭✭whitesands


    You don't have to like Fitch, but they are correct, the quicker people realise this, the quicker we sort ourselves out.

    If we don't see firesales & foreclosures, the smart money will remain outside Ireland, we are TOXIC.

    If there was realistic prices out there, money would pour into the country, but if we insist on silly prices for property, the smart money won't invest till we wake up & cop on.

    What idiot would invest in a country where people are left in mansions they can't afford??? You might aswell head into paddy power & bet on dogs.

    We are idiots & the people who give us money are laughing at us for being so stupid :mad:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 337 ✭✭WildBoots


    http://www.rte.ie/business/2010/1008/mortgage.html

    Looks like next year may see more home repossession :(

    The following can all go f*ck themselves:

    RTE
    The banks
    Crooked politicians
    Rating agencies
    The IMF
    The ECB
    Debt collectors

    And any other soulless, heartless, lowlife scumbags who think it's ok to force people out of there homes and possibly onto the street because of a failed monetary, political and justice system.

    People need to stick together and tell these scumbags to f*ck off, massive non compliance with a failed system is what we need to see more of.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    WildBoots wrote: »
    The following can all go f*ck themselves:

    RTE
    The banks
    Crooked politicians
    Rating agencies
    The IMF
    The ECB
    Debt collectors

    And any other soulless, heartless, lowlife scumbags who think it's ok to force people out of there homes and possibly onto the street because of a failed monetary, political and justice system.

    People need to stick together and tell these scumbags to f*ck off, massive non compliance with a failed system is what we need to see more of.

    That won't work unless you can stay out of their system forever, which isn't possible. "The man" always wins in the end.


    And for those that say firesales are the answer, that is akin to selling the country to the highest bidder... which is below the long term economic value. Firesales will only enable the rich to buy up the country cheaply, sit on it and sell it back to us at an inflated price down the road. The same people complaining about the banks now, will be the same people complaining about the high prices for services, property etc. in 10 to 15 years.

    The country sells off the family silver at its peril.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 372 ✭✭poppyvalley


    Where are all these people the developers paid the millions to? Sure a little windfall tax on these guys would help


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    Wait a minute!

    You mean people are going to start losing their homes because they can't keep up repayments? Like they say on every piece of paperwork that you sign when applying for a mortgage?

    Amazing :eek:

    It's mad isnt it.

    You'd think the banks say that for the craic


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,102 ✭✭✭Stinicker


    WildBoots wrote: »
    The following can all go f*ck themselves:

    RTE
    The banks
    Crooked politicians
    Rating agencies
    The IMF
    The ECB
    Debt collectors

    And any other soulless, heartless, lowlife scumbags who think it's ok to force people out of there homes and possibly onto the street because of a failed monetary, political and justice system.

    People need to stick together and tell these scumbags to f*ck off, massive non compliance with a failed system is what we need to see more of.

    I agree with you I equally loathe the said people above. However I have no pity for a person who borrowed money and now cannot repay it, the bank is perfectly entitled to foreclose and the property does not belong to a person until such time as he/she has repaid all monies owed in full. People need to be realistic and if the cannot make the loan repayment they should cut their losses and negotiate with the banks. If a person is hell bent on keeping their piece of negative equity then either come up with the money or lose the house.

    My own family went through the exact same thing in the 1980's recession, the bank was about to foreclose when my father Emigrated to higher wages in England; leaving my mother with us kids, after the first big cheque came through from him the bank quickly relented and after a few months over there he came home as he had bought enough breathing space on the loan.

    Ten years later he left again for 6 months and earned enough to fully repay the Mortgage. I remember my mother and father being so happy and celebrating.

    I missed my dad in those days in the 1980's but remember getting a £50 note for my tenth birthday, which gave me spending power equal to €500 today.

    There are ways and means and a person in debt should look for ways to get out of the situation not moan and blame someone else and expect a government bailout. If I see the Government going bailing out Mortgage holders I swear I will leave and never set foot in Ireland again.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,925 ✭✭✭th3 s1aught3r


    I cannot see the government bailing out mortgage holders. They are flat broke as it is and I suspect the 'markets' would have a dim view of such an action


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,815 ✭✭✭✭galwayrush


    Fitch would probably frown on providing C.F. sufferers with the health care they need. Since we're broke, i imaginge looking after old people in hospital ( bedblockers as Heartless Hearney once referred them as ) would also be a waste of borrowed money . Tough decisions on easy targets, and more of it to come while the Government continues to award their friends who are failures or inept advisors with massive wages and pensions.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭Noreen1


    It's true that some people were foolish during the boom, and took out exorbitant loans. However, it is also true that our "financial experts" :rolleyes:(God help us!) - who, unlike the average Joe in the street, had presumably some training in economics - got the maths very seriously wrong!!
    Hence, I would expect that greater knowledge should have led to greater responsibility.

    Now, it might suit "Fitch" spokespersons if there were more foreclosures - but said foreclosures would be a personal disaster for the families involved.
    Realistically, they would also place a greater burden on the state (ie. You and me!), as the need for social housing increased - or, more likely, exploded!

    Therefore, proposals for more foreclosures cannot be said to have either the best interests of either the Country, or individual citizens at heart.
    I leave you to draw your own conclusions as to why such suggestions are being made........

    IMO, a far more realistic proposal would be for mortgages to be re-negotiated, where possible. Better that a family is allowed to keep the family home, thus avoiding the need for social housing - and reduce the payments made during to recession, gradually increasing the payments made as the individuals income increases when the recovery starts.

    Or, to put it another way: I know of people who took out 25 year mortgages for 30,000 27/28 years ago - at what would now be classed as exorbitant mortgage rates.
    They repaid the mortgage at £24/25 a week. That was a serious chunk out of their salary 28 years ago, but it was very small change 3 years ago.
    To put it in context, if said homeowners had the opportunity to repay, say £20 per week for the first 5 years, rising to £25, then £30 as incomes increased - then the banks would still end up getting their money, there would be no extra cost to the taxpayer associated with additional social housing, and people/families would still have a home......

    It seems to me to me a more reasonable option than the current waffle being spouted by "Fitch" et al.

    JMO.

    Noreen


  • Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I'm expecting there to be a dose of hyperinflation soon as a direct result of the QE money printing and the "currency war" or the race to devalue. Both of which will eventually cause major price inflation, just look at commodity prices.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 326 ✭✭whitesands



    And for those that say firesales are the answer, that is akin to selling the country to the highest bidder... which is below the long term economic value. Firesales will only enable the rich to buy up the country cheaply, sit on it and sell it back to us at an inflated price down the road. The same people complaining about the banks now, will be the same people complaining about the high prices for services, property etc. in 10 to 15 years.

    The country sells off the family silver at its peril.
    Eh, we have no silver, we have a load of property.

    And long term economic value, seriously, you fell for that? We have over 300000 empties, we can NOT bottom till we clear all that stock. The LTEV is only what someone is willing to pay, not what the Gov tells us they would like it to be in 10 years time.

    The long term economic value, the banks are solvent, the fundamentals are sound etc etc, it's all bullsh1t & the majority are screwed.

    Guess what the bond market thinks of the LTEV, they don't, they know it's nonsense.

    Prepare for default, it's inevitable at this stage. We'll have the firesales forced on us then & it won't be pretty, well, for most people anyway.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,779 ✭✭✭up for anything


    God damn the changeover to flat screen tvs. It makes it really difficult to get a decent cardboard box now. :(


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,081 ✭✭✭LeixlipRed


    It's abhorent right wing enitities like these chaps and IBEC (head of IBEC said this week in a matter of words that a rise in unemployment was good, shows how "flexible" the economy is) that make me want go on a massive murder spree.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,256 ✭✭✭bobblepuzzle


    Nobody wants to see families thrown out of their homes.... in fact Ireland is unique in the sense that our constitution go's to extraordinary lengths to protect the family home.... It is extremely difficult for a bank to obtain a court order forcing eviction.

    That said, a lot of people did buy homes they could barely afford then with little or no thinking into the future... ie: If we run into problems such as redundancy, do we have a way out? A lot of people signed for 100% mortgages with the obligatory text "If you fail to keep up repayments your home may be at risk...."

    Personally I have little sympathy for anyone who accepted a huge mortgage that they clearly couldn't afford with no planning into the future whatsoever


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 720 ✭✭✭fastrac


    Did Fitch mention anything about putting some of the clueless Bankers in jail.When I see some of them in orange overalls and leg irons and the government calling a halt to the guys with the gold plated pensions awarded to them despite total failure to do the job they were paid handsomely for I will listen to Fitch.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,815 ✭✭✭✭galwayrush


    Cmdr Keen wrote: »
    Personnally I have little sympathy for anyone who accepted a huge mortgage that they clearly couldn't afford with no planning into the future whatsoever

    But our Government kept telling us we were the envy of Europe with no end in sight for the Celtic Tiger, and if it should ever end, it would be a soft landing......:rolleyes:
    People wanted their own homes, they paid market value for them at the time, the watch dogs of our financial houses allowed the lending rules to be bent .People understandably bought into the dream of having their own home while the Government aided the prices to spiral out of control.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,256 ✭✭✭bobblepuzzle


    galwayrush wrote: »
    But our Government kept telling us we were the envy of Europe with no end in sight for the Celtic Tiger, and if it should ever end, it would be a soft landing......:rolleyes:
    People wanted their own homes, they paid market value for them at the time, the watch dogs of our financial houses allowed the lending rules to be bent .People understandably bought into the dream of having their own home while the Government aided the prices to spiral out of control.

    Most people actually did it right... they could well afford it etc but unfortunately faced redundancy or whatever

    But others, particularly first time buyers took out 100% mortgages, and while on paper they could afford the repayments, it was cutting it very thin... then along comes a baby for example... and all of a sudden they are like "sh!t, we can barely afford to live here now"... (especially with a newborn since the majority of couples are both working... and they need to pay someone to look after the child)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,815 ✭✭✭✭galwayrush


    Cmdr Keen wrote: »
    Most people actually did it right... they could well afford it etc but unfortunately faced redundancy or whatever

    But others, particularly first time buyers took out 100% mortgages, and while on paper they could afford the repayments, it was cutting it very thin... then along comes a baby for example... and all of a sudden they are like "sh!t, we can barely afford to live here now"...

    True, i know of a few examples where people bought houses purely because they would realise a nice percentage profit within 6 months to a year. They borrowed the deposit from family to get their mortgages , hoping that when they sold, they could pay back their family and have enough left over for an honest deposit to buy again.. Worked fine for a few years until the house of cards came tumbling down. Agree, hard to have sympathy for irresponsable people who secured mortgages on false pretences.


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  • Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    galwayrush wrote: »
    True, i know of a few examples where people bought houses purely because they would realise a nice percentage profit within 6 months to a year. They borrowed the deposit from family to get their mortgages , hoping that when they sold, they could pay back their family and have enough left over for an honest deposit to buy again.. Worked fine for a few years until the house of cards came tumbling down. Agree, hard to have sympathy for irresponsable people who secured mortgages on false pretences.

    Unfortunately, those are the very people that played a major hand in inflating the bubble in the first place, together with those who bought houses instead of other financial produces for their pensions.

    I expect it's householders in these catagories where Fitch expects the foreclosures to take place.

    A future timebomb when many of these people reach retirement without any savings.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,925 ✭✭✭th3 s1aught3r


    Cmdr Keen wrote: »

    Personally I have little sympathy for anyone who accepted a huge mortgage that they clearly couldn't afford with no planning into the future whatsoever

    But people needed houses to live in. It was hardly their fault that the prices were inflated beyond belief due to government policy and greedy developers.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,256 ✭✭✭bobblepuzzle


    But people needed houses to live in. It was hardly their fault that the prices were inflated beyond belief due to government policy and greedy developers.

    Rent then or buy a cheaper property... simples


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,256 ✭✭✭Ronin247


    I dont see the government letting it happen simply because as long as people have a small bit of hope they will not revolt.If people lose everything there could be a revolution.

    I would like to see this failure because it may finally cause us to get off our arses and do something about this class system that keeps the elite safe and warm while the rest have scraps to live on.

    I wouldnt like to see a total bailout because I didnt over extend myself and I have (for the moment) a job so I would end up paying for others mistakes even more than I am at the moment


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,102 ✭✭✭Stinicker


    galwayrush wrote: »
    But our Government kept telling us we were the envy of Europe with no end in sight for the Celtic Tiger, and if it should ever end, it would be a soft landing......:rolleyes:
    People wanted their own homes, they paid market value for them at the time, the watch dogs of our financial houses allowed the lending rules to be bent .People understandably bought into the dream of having their own home while the Government aided the prices to spiral out of control.

    People is this country are total sheep, As a rule I do not trust the Government with anything especially the Public service. Yes people here blindly entrust our Government with.

    a) Healthcare, they trust a government run bureacracy with their most important thing, their life and health.

    b) Money, people here have blindly trusted the Government with all their savings since 2008 under the Banking guarantee, the state is broke yet they still trust the government. Anyone with hindsight has moved their money offshore.

    c) Education, how anyone could entrust their children to the state to face a liberal brainwashing is beyond me. When I have children they will be educated privately with Religious values where the importance will be on education and not on respecting Ethnic Minorities, Gay Rights and Political Correctness.

    d) Security, The Gardai are a failed entity and do not provide adequate security for the state, there main emphasis is on overtime and catching people doing a few KM's over the speed limit. Criminals are not punished and if I were to shoot dead an intruder I would actually be in the wrong and not the scumbag, not that, that would deter me anyway.

    People need to learn to question authority and never take anything at face value. Generally if the Government says one thing you are better going the opposite direction.

    Any fool with some brain cells could see that Ireland was a false economy and as economy cannot be in good shape unless there are boat queued up awaiting exports.

    Ireland was in good shape up until about 2001 and had we changed Government in 2002 none of this would ever have happened. The Government effectivly bought the 2002 and 2007 elections with the promise of the SSIA in 2002 and the maturing of the SSIA in 2007 which poured over €14billion into the economy, most banks then offered huge mortgages on these matured SSIA accounts, and foolishly many people partook in them.

    There is no government in my eyes and everyman needs to fend for himself in our lawless society, avoid paying taxes and but emphasis on self sufficency and number one security, the fact the Gun ownership is so heavily regulated in Ireland is a sign of the sort of oppression this Government would like to keep the people in. In the United States the private Millitia are the checks and balances that keeps the Federal Government in its place.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 542 ✭✭✭ILA


    I hope the fecking Real IRA go after these lads as well as the Banks!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,815 ✭✭✭✭galwayrush


    ILA wrote: »
    I hope the fecking Real IRA go after these lads as well as the Banks!

    I hope the Real IRA and those bad bankers all go away... forever.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,102 ✭✭✭Stinicker


    ILA wrote: »
    I hope the fecking Real IRA go after these lads as well as the Banks!

    Well Fianna Fail are Irish and through some perverse type of thinking (similar to battered wife syndrome) that because they are Irish it is okay for them to destroy the country. Sort of like they are scumbags but at least they are our scumbags.

    The sad thing is that if Ireland was under British Rule today and what is happening was happening every single person would be united against them and they would be proper action taken against them as was taken from 1916 to 1922.

    Just because Fianna Fail are Irish should not excempt them from justice and the people need to stand up and be counted and if Fianna Fail does not go voluntarily then the people should arm themselves and be prepared for civil war against the state.


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 13,105 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    Fitch are somewhat harsh in their recommendation but the fact remains that for the moribund property market to ever have a hope of restarting in the medium to long-term, house prices will have to bottom out and fire sales and repossession will have a part to play in that.

    That said, families should be given every option to renegotiate their mortgages so long as there is a possibility of them paying it back realistically.

    There should also be a series of graduated supports to assist homeowners in difficulty to return to renting or social housing. For too long the excuse of government in this couhnry placed home ownership above all else and raised peoples' expectations too high. There were many schemes rolled out in the past 20 years to assist low income households to buy their homes when in reality home ownership was not a viable or sustainable option for them.


    Stinicker wrote: »
    ....c) Education, how anyone could entrust their children to the state to face a liberal brainwashing is beyond me. When I have children they will be educated privately with Religious values where the importance will be on education and not on respecting Ethnic Minorities, Gay Rights and Political Correctness.


    So I suppose religion isn't brainwashing then?:rolleyes: Teaching your chidren to be bigots is a good idea?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 504 ✭✭✭cypharius


    Stinicker wrote: »
    People is this country are total sheep,


    Stopped reading there.


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