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Do you think Irish should become an option after LC?

135

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,125 ✭✭✭Killer Pigeon


    No, I don't think Irish should become optional. In fact, I think that every single primary and secondary school in the country should be converted into a Gaelscoil. We need the population to be immersed in the language in order for it to survive. Who knows, 50 years or so of Gaelscoil totalitarianism could truly make Irish Ireland's first language. Israel did it with Hebrew (or whatever they call it), why can't we do it with Irish.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 629 ✭✭✭thisisadamh


    Rebelheart wrote: »
    For the same reason you have to know Shakespeare, Austen and all those pointless ponces on the Leaving Cert English syllabus to do the same engineering course in college?

    Oh, but let's not get in the way of your rant against Irish. Right on, bud.

    I am not against Irish! In my school, one of my friends who loves Irish is starting to hate as it takes so much time out of his study. Same with me. If it was an option it would not be a burden on peoples overall grade and they wont end up hating it and then they might want to go on and learn it after school.

    I am now going to Cuman na bFiann every friday now and I am enjoying speaking it. But then every time I go into school i dread the classes


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,847 ✭✭✭bleg


    No, I don't think Irish should become optional. In fact, I think that every single primary and secondary school in the country should be converted into a Gaelscoil. We need the population to be immersed in the language in order for it to survive. Who knows, 50 years or so of Gaelscoil totalitarianism could truly make Irish Ireland's first language. Israel did it with Hebrew (or whatever they call it), why can't we do it with Irish.

    Because it's pointless and useless?


  • Site Banned Posts: 5,676 ✭✭✭jayteecork


    I did Irish for 14 years and never listened for a second.

    Absolutely hated it.
    Did pass for my leaving and if I failed I couldn't get into University. Managed to scrap a D2.
    How, I don't know. My Irish would embarass a primary school kid.

    I remember the only Irish I knew was **** like "D'erigh me ar maidin, leim me amach as mo leaba agus glan me mo fiacla. Dith me mo bricfeasta"
    My entire leaving cert exam was a variant of above.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    No, I don't think Irish should become optional. In fact, I think that every single primary and secondary school in the country should be converted into a Gaelscoil. We need the population to be immersed in the language in order for it to survive. Who knows, 50 years or so of Gaelscoil totalitarianism could truly make Irish Ireland's first language. Israel did it with Hebrew (or whatever they call it), why can't we do it with Irish.
    No, I don't think Klingon should become optional. In fact, I think that every single primary and secondary school in the country should be converted into a Klingon speaking school. We need the population to be immersed in the language in order for it to survive. Who knows, 50 years or so of Klingon speaking school totalitarianism could truly make Klingon Ireland's first language. Israel did it with Hebrew (or whatever they call it), why can't we do it with Klingon?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    Rebelheart wrote: »
    For the same reason you have to know Shakespeare, Austen and all those pointless ponces on the Leaving Cert English syllabus to do the same engineering course in college?

    Oh, but let's not get in the way of your rant against Irish. Right on, bud.

    but you dont have to learn to speak a different language to read English literature, we're an English speaking country, get over it.

    I agree that I hated having to try learn Irish (and failing miserably) in school but I'd like to be able to speak it now.

    Having kids learn Spanish or French would be much more benficial, learning Irish wouldnt benefit you at all, since nobody else in the world spaks it and the majority of its supposedly native speakers dont know more than a few sentences in it for the most part.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,125 ✭✭✭Killer Pigeon


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    No, I don't think Klingon should become optional. In fact, I think that every single primary and secondary school in the country should be converted into a Klingon speaking school. We need the population to be immersed in the language in order for it to survive. Who knows, 50 years or so of Klingon speaking school totalitarianism could truly make Klingon Ireland's first language. Israel did it with Hebrew (or whatever they call it), why can't we do it with Klingon?

    Unpatriotic degenerate idiots! What a straw man you just used sir.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,125 ✭✭✭Killer Pigeon


    bleg wrote: »
    Because it's pointless and useless?


    Was it pointless for Israel to revive Hebrew to the extent that they did?

    The point is, Irish is taught terrible in schools (especially English speaking schools). The only true way to master the language (and not just to learn it of for an exam) is to be immersed in it.

    Look at almost every other country in Europe;

    France has French,
    Wales has Welsh
    The Netherlands has Dutch
    The Germans have German
    The Sweds Have Swedish
    The Norwegian have Norwegian
    The Finish have Finish
    The Poles have Polish
    The Czechs have Czech
    The Slovaks have Slovakian (even though it's similar to Czech)
    The Ukrainians have Ukrainian
    The Italians have Italian
    The Greeks have Greek

    etc..

    WHY CAN'T THE IRISH HAVE GAELIC?????


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,847 ✭✭✭bleg


    Was it pointless for Israel to revive Hebrew to the extent that they did?

    Are you seriously trying to compare the teaching of Irish in this country with the adoption and imposition of a state language by the Israeli state? What planet are you on?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,125 ✭✭✭Killer Pigeon


    bleg wrote: »
    Are you seriously trying to compare the teaching of Irish in this country with the adoption and imposition of a state language by the Israeli state? What planet are you on?

    Well I think it's about time that the Irish State did the same.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Unpatriotic degenerate idiots! What a straw man you just used sir.
    I used your logic and applied it to a different situation. The logic didn't hold out.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Was it pointless for Israel to revive Hebrew to the extent that they did?
    No, because Israel's population was composed of Jews from all over the world speaking different languages. If the country was to work a new universal language would need to be deployed. And that's what happened with hebrew. That situation does not apply to Ireland. We already have a working language.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,125 ✭✭✭Killer Pigeon


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    We already have a working language.

    Are you sure? Is English really working in Ireland? Our accent isn't even suited to the language. I mean if you go down the country you hear people struggling with it when they speak it. I mean sure they mightn't have a problem writing in English but speaking it ...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Are you sure? Is English really working in Ireland? Our accent isn't even suited to the language. I mean if you go down the country you hear people struggling with it when they speak it. I mean sure they mightn't have a problem writing in English but speaking it ...
    Lol, that what you're down to now? Arguing that the Irish accent isn't suited to English? I think people have been doing alright for the past four hundred years or so.

    And trust me, if english can survive the Ozzie accent, it can survive anything Ireland can throw at it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,305 ✭✭✭Chuchoter


    Unpatriotic degenerate idiots! What a straw man you just used sir.

    You know your language is crap when the straw man argument is actually fairly accurate, in fact, judging from the page views on this site, Klingon might be more useful.

    http://www.kli.org/

    In any case, although I would love to be able to speak it, after the 12 years of Irish I've done so far I've basically given up. You are taught the basic sentance structures by listening to people who only got C3s (I get thats high, but when you're learning a language you need the person speaking it to be perfect), so that gets screwed up. You get into first year and they teach you verbs, all well and good, but the thing is thats basically all the grammar you get, the rest of it is :It'll sound right which is TOTALLY USELESS ADVICE!

    Then you have to learn crap poetry (and I like poetry) that would NEVER have gotten into an English textbook because you are choosing from a pool of I'd say 100 writers. The classes are too big to get any oral done because everyone has to take it, so that 40% is out the window.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭123balltv


    my friends son is so enthusiastic about learning Irish hes only 6
    he likes to tell us the Irish word for this and that I try to seem interested but I feel sorry for him after school he'll never speak another word of it unless he moves to the sticks and live on a tiny island


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »

    And trust me, if english can survive the Ozzie accent, it can survive anything Ireland can throw at it.

    Or even worse, the Northern accent.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,003 ✭✭✭CorkMan


    IMO it should be stopped. No one learns it unless they go to an irish speaking school.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 746 ✭✭✭skregs


    1: Bring back mandatory Irish for government jobs, civil service, guards, postmen, etc.

    2: Have road signs in Irish, all advertising should have Irish versions

    Basically, make it like Quebec. Its not a dead language, and this "drop it from the LC so more people will speak it" ****e is just a poor attempt at saying "I dont want to learn Irish"


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 343 ✭✭Geansai Rua


    Jesus how lazy are some people..
    We wont need it so why learn it?
    Be proud of your language and learn it because your not American or English or Aussie..
    Its good to be different
    It would be terrible if they made it optional.


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 27,498 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    The thing is, it's not actually a difficult language to learn. There is a limited number of irregular verbs and the general sentence structure is simple enough.

    The approach taken to teaching it in schools is horrific though.

    Irish, as written by a Polish woman after four years self-study.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 355 ✭✭GizAGoOfYerGee


    spurious wrote: »


    Google translation:
    Gaeilgeoirs Polish language course in the Gaeltacht

    Danuta Czyzewska

    Sat, Apr 16, 2008

    REPORT: BEST Polish and I live in a small industrial city in the midlands. I did not ever work in Ireland and I do now. It is very surprising that Éireannaigh Irish always have.

    They do not understand why I have been learning, if not benefit me to do so. And I'm learning Irish as she is there, although it is condemned to death. It is an ancient and secretive, very interesting and very complex.

    I went to Gweedore, Co Donegal, to make Irish course last year. Gweedore is situated on the northwest coast of Donegal and is the strongest Gaeltacht areas in Ireland. It's the most beautiful areas in the country.

    There are scenes not beat anywhere, between hills, beaches and lakes. I read the brochure that I received from Linn when I wrote them to find information on Irish courses for adults would have in the Gaeltacht during the summer.

    Instead I saw with my own eyes and I did not regret at all. I stayed on the shiúlainn Derrybeg and three large industrial estate to the University Academy twice each day, to the classes, lectures or social events held there.

    On the way I was looking at the Errigal, the highest mountain in the county, far away, and the scene was very beautiful indeed. After théinn classes myself until I used the remote beach and walking along the shore listening to the gentle sound of waves, or up a narrow path to the summit of the hill, between the new houses first, and then between stone fields. There was silence and magic. They sent me this working pressure.

    To be honest, initially I never thought of going to Donegal to do Irish course. The Connemara and Dingle my favorite places in Ireland and so was my intention to go to one of them.

    I searched the Internet and I found many adult education courses in Carraroe, but they were there for people involved in education in Ireland. I am not among those, unfortunately.

    Thank God, Gael Linn and they run courses in Irish for adults also. A good understanding of poor Irish who are seeking information. Since Anne was from Linn Cuireáin very friendly and very patient with me. She helped me find accommodation, choose the course level and gave me permission to pay the course fee on arrival. I am grateful to her.

    One of the aims of the course was not to prove that a living language is Irish bheathach. Indeed, the Irish played beautifully by the teachers we had at the Academy of guests and locals as well.

    But I went to the store in Derrybeg night to buy some milk, but I could not get it. I asked the server: "Can I buy milk here?" "Yes, it's in the Right-Hand corner," he responded.

    He must have heard it I was a stranger, but I tried to speak Irish and I was hoping to hear, especially in the Gaeltacht. He disappointed me.

    Even on Tory Island, the island much on the high seas on I visited him, with another person of course, did not speak any Irish girl at the bar but it happened that Polish! Convinced that the King, Patsaí Dan Rodgers, welcomed Irish, when he heard that she had us, and he told us a few words in Irish pub music he was playing there.

    IRELAND Since I'm originally NOT at all and was not among my people Éireannaigh ever. In addition, I have not ever had an Irish teacher either. I'm learning Irish for the past four years, but I teach myself.

    I have been learning at home, from the Internet, and from the books, CDs and tapes to my friends sent me from Ireland. I'ma member of a group of Irish learners on the Internet. I have conducted many Irish emails to my friends and to those lists.

    Unfortunately, no opportunity to speak Irish at home. I do not know any Gaelic speakers in Poland. Therefore, I can read and write reasonably well in Irish, but it is very difficult for me to speak, although I dont know how to pronounce words, and it is even harder for me to understand spoken Irish. I'm listening to Radio na Gaeltachta and watch TV on the Internet in Irish, from time to time, but I do not see much of them.

    There was only a year ago when I discovered I could do that. Not look at the sobalchláracha from Polish, at all, but look at Ros always, because the only language!

    My way to the course of Irish in the very long and very difficult and very exciting at the same time.

    Started my interest in culture when I was in secondary school and I came to book on Irish mythology.

    My name is Danuta as a pagan name. It was very interesting to me to find out that there were Celtic goddess named Danú and eacaineacht was being celebrated this summer. Cuckoo celebrate my name day on 24th of June, which greatly surprised me.

    It is my opinion that more than coincidence was strange. I started on books about Ireland, and authors read Éireannacha. Much later I moved the House of Splendid Isolation by Edna O'Brien Bhéarla into Polish and published.

    The author of Ireland Irish showed me. I was reading a book in English and, unexpectedly, I became expressions of a very strange language I had not seen previously. It was a short story and the last sentence in each story, from this secret language.

    I did not know what language I was only measurements that were Irish, as Ireland was the author. I wrote down the sentences that I promised myself that I could understand them, sooner or later. I moved my residence several hours later but I did like those expressions. They were staying for 13 years, but now I understand them. The Gaelic proverbs are.

    I am the coordinator of International Projects in progress for two years at the school where I work. We do cooperate with schools from Ireland and three other foreign schools.

    Now I teach Irish, Gaelic songs and dances for my students, and they enjoy it very much, and I also own. We're learning about the culture and being promoted, between school and city.

    A Czyzewska Danuta (51) a secondary school teacher in Zyrardów in Poland. She Teagscann English and Physics. In language that she wrote this section.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,305 ✭✭✭Chuchoter


    spurious wrote: »
    The thing is, it's not actually a difficult language to learn. There is a limited number of irregular verbs and the general sentence structure is simple enough.

    The approach taken to teaching it in schools is horrific though.

    Irish, as written by a Polish woman after four years self-study.

    Its horrific in that they actually never teach you sentence structure, thats why the Polish lady is good, she knows the grammar.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,847 ✭✭✭bleg


    Jesus how lazy are some people..
    We wont need it so why learn it?
    Be proud of your language and learn it because your not American or English or Aussie..
    Its good to be different
    It would be terrible if they made it optional.

    How can you be proud of your language? It evolves over time.

    Being proud of your language is retarded and no more relevant than being proud of you baby toenail.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,345 ✭✭✭doolox


    Both Irish and English should be split into 2 subjects, Language and Literature.
    Those pupils of an artistic bent could take their beloved poetry.
    Those pupils of a more practical bent could take the Language option, putting more emphasis on grammar, structure and the spoken word.
    It might be possible to have an Irish Culture subject,combining history, dance, art and literature in one subject to make the imparting of Irish culture more bearable for the English speaking majority in this country.

    A huge change needs to be made in the teaching of Irish and the existing teaching body needs to be completely revamped. A lot of people have similar negative exposure to the language ranging from ridicule to corporal punishment for the government to ignore it.

    Modern educational practice now recognizes different levels of learning ability and different ways of learning which must be taken into account.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 27,498 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Its horrific in that they actually never teach you sentence structure, thats why the Polish lady is good, she knows the grammar.

    A big problem is primary teachers with poor Irish, or worse still, a poor attitude to Irish - the kids will pick that up very quickly and the damage is done early on.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 165 ✭✭AlexderFranke


    At greater primary schools, they ought to pay attention that at least one teacher is really skilled in Irish. In small schools, they could let Irish teachers from outside the own school teach the children Irish if their own primary teacher has too poor Irish.

    Maidir le bunscoileanna níos mó, ba chóir leo aire a thabhairt go bhrfuil Gaeilge fíor-réasúnta ag aon mhúinteoir ansiúd. Ag beag-bhunscoileanna, b´fhearr an Ghaeilge a bheith múinte leis na bpáistí ag múinteoir oilte ó lasmuigh den scoil féin má tá Gaeilge sách-bhocht ag a múinteoir bunscoile féin.

    Alex


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    Its a staggering indictment of the way Irish is taught in schools that your average student who starts learning it by the time they're in 1st class all the way to the leaving cert can only string a few sentences together in most cases, I can understand more French than Irish and I only did that for 2 years!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭c_man


    jayteecork wrote: »
    I remember the only Irish I knew was **** like "D'erigh me ar maidin, leim me amach as mo leaba agus glan me mo fiacla. Dith me mo bricfeasta"
    My entire leaving cert exam was a variant of above.

    Heh, sounds familiar. All past tense, all the time :pac:

    I hated Irish with a passion in school. I despised the time and effort that went into it, and that I could have been deprived of a place in college due to it (scrapped some sort of C).

    Now I wish I had some, enough to converse with at least.

    The teaching is horrendous. Something needs to be done about the course outline too. Forcing students to do poetry when they can barely string a sentence together makes no bloody sense.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,378 ✭✭✭Cherrycola


    krudler wrote: »
    Its a staggering indictment of the way Irish is taught in schools that your average student who starts learning it by the time they're in 1st class all the way to the leaving cert can only string a few sentences together in most cases, I can understand more French than Irish and I only did that for 2 years!


    Completely agree, and this is the best argument for making it optional in schools. The majority of the country have spent 12 years learning Irish and no one can speak more than a few words! Surely they can see that its the manner in which its taught thats the problem, and not 99% of the students?

    Its a disgrace that so much time is spent in school teaching a language badly! Rhyming off verbs, reading crap poetry and short stories, how old is this syllabus?! The time would be better spent having all the students sitting around in a circle conversing in Irish about how they spent their weekend.

    Why not let students put more effort into subjects they can excel at for LC?

    And dont even get me started on the Religion exam!!!:rolleyes:


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