just pulled the trigger on slate VCC

DamagedTrax · 01-10-2010 9:52am #1

this thing is amazing.

still a public beta so a few bugs to iron out but it sounds spot on.

ive never used a trident or API desk so i can only say the VCC versions sound lovely, warm and punchy but the 4k and neve are as close as it gets to the real thing.

ive ran a drum track processed thru the ssl in windmill and the same tracks ran thru the VCC channels and VCC mix buss and i actually had to phase reverse to really hear the differance and even then its marginal, certainly not what i expected :cool:

gonna do the same with the VCC neve and a few tracks recorded on a neve VR later (although i can only compare tone and warmth here as the 2 desks are totally differant models.)

also ran the VCC 4k on a reverb return (UAD emt 140) with a decent input drive. the reverb really opened right up and just sat better in the mix which is pretty outstanding considering how well the UAD 140 works just on its own.

01-10-2010 11:33am

Man, I want this...Looks impressive..

goatboy1000 · 01-10-2010 8:57pm

Great stuff. Fantastic price too.
Have you tried the waves stuff? How well do you think they compare?

Neurojazz · 02-10-2010 11:01am

Soooo cheap

- will be looking into this

DamagedTrax · 02-10-2010 2:23pm

goatboy1000 wrote: »

Great stuff. Fantastic price too.
Have you tried the waves stuff? How well do you think they compare?

there's nothing to compare.

slate vcc is a console channel and mix buss emulation. waves have nothing similiar. they have emulations of hardware and some do emulate the effects of transistors etc in that hardware but vcc is purely dedicated to emulating the audio path - input saturation and drive, phase distortion, cross talk etc.

goatboy1000 · 02-10-2010 2:33pm

Ah I see.
Being the lazy sod that I am, I never even checked the website properly to find out any info except the price.
I'll definitely give it a go, have an album to mix soon.
Thanks for pointing it out!

PaulBrewer · 02-10-2010 7:01pm

Any comparison to the URS chan ?

DamagedTrax · 02-10-2010 8:55pm

again no comparison. URS channel is a channel strip with EQ and comp emulations aswell is input saturation.

vcc has no compressors or eq per say. its just a pure audio signal from various desks. it emulates the input drive and saturation that a desk imparts from after the preamp and thru to the faders with eq and compressors set to zero.

aswell as the channel plugin theres also a stereo mix buss which also emulates saturation but also emulates crosstalk between channels and phase distortion.

obviously the overall affect is subtle and listening to say a kickdrum in isolation would definitly have you questioning whether it was actually doing anything at all. its only when you combine everything and mix into stereo groups and finally into a stereo master that you really hear the differances (which when done properly are certainly not subtle).

an idea would be to use the vcc neve emulation on a channel and then add the URS channel strip and select a neve compressor and eq.

PaulBrewer · 04-10-2010 8:35pm

DamagedTrax wrote: »

again no comparison. URS channel is a channel strip with EQ and comp emulations aswell is input saturation.

vcc has no compressors or eq per say. its just a pure audio signal from various desks. it emulates the input drive and saturation that a desk imparts from after the preamp and thru to the faders with eq and compressors set to zero.

aswell as the channel plugin theres also a stereo mix buss which also emulates saturation but also emulates crosstalk between channels and phase distortion.

obviously the overall affect is subtle and listening to say a kickdrum in isolation would definitly have you questioning whether it was actually doing anything at all. its only when you combine everything and mix into stereo groups and finally into a stereo master that you really hear the differances (which when done properly are certainly not subtle).

an idea would be to use the vcc neve emulation on a channel and then add the URS channel strip and select a neve compressor and eq.

So if one didn't use the Eq and Comp ?

I'm thinking if someone did own the URS is the VCC a necessary purchase.

DamagedTrax · 04-10-2010 9:06pm

since the input saturation on the URS strip is actually the compressor input saturation (even though it is not visibly part of the compressor section), if you decide not to use comp or eq models then all you have left is the input saturation on the compressor model that you're using, which is totally differant to what VCC models.

URS channel doesnt emulate the actual audio thru the channel, it only emulates the compressor and eqs that you shoose to place in it and it doesnt offer a differant channel or buss plugin for that very reason. in VCC the channel plugin needs to be used along with the mix buss plugin as it is the feed from the channel that drives the buss and it is the stereo sum of all the channels that lets the buss plugin emulate crosstalk.

its very clever, if a little confusing.

fitz · 04-10-2010 9:32pm

Just tried out the airwindows equivalent, channel2. Impressive free option for mac users!

trackmixstudio · 04-10-2010 9:53pm

I will check this out.
Slate seems to be on a roll these days with Trigger, then the Dragon comp then FG-X then VCC. I use trigger but didn't like FG-X when I demoed it.
I do a similar thing to the VCC using inserts in logic.
I use my ISA828 (8 channel) as inserts on the stereo drum, bass, guitar and vocal busses by sending out line levels to it and then back through its converters.
On the master bus I use an insert for DRS pre/eq and Drawmer 1968 compressor.
I have the bus levels matched so there is the same level with inserts on or off.
The difference is huge. If I bypass the inserts the whole energy of the mix drops and the stereo image collapses a bit.
This method allows total recall apart from the DRS eq and Drawmer comp settings whose settings get saved as a text file in the project folder.
When you set up an insert in Logic you "ping" the chain and it works out the delay and automatically compensates for it.
The VCC bus plugin probably simulates what my ISA /DRS is doing for real.
The only problem with my way and the VCC is that they are not summing but just acting on the stereo (already summed) bus. The next step would be to create a plugin that lets you group channels that get summed by a virtual bus. I haven't tried it but I believe Harrison mixbus does this but it runs as a separate program alongside the main DAW which puts me off it. http://www.harrisonconsoles.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=108&Itemid=42

On individual channels I use URS saturation which I LOVE.
First plugin on every track is 30IPS tape sim then sometimes British or American tranny. Only about 30% on the saturation slider. You can barely notice it when you solo a track but if you turn them all off there is a big difference. URS saturation is much better than CSP at this job. I just leave CSP on digital in but use saturation in front of it.

Hybrid mixing (combination of DAW and hardware) is the future and I am happy with how my method is working out for me.
If I have time this week I will bounce a mix with inserts on and off to demonstrate.

seannash · 04-10-2010 10:00pm

How do you guys rate the massey tape head saturation or even the logic saturation on the tape delay plug.

trackmixstudio · 04-10-2010 10:13pm

DamagedTrax wrote: »

in VCC the channel plugin needs to be used along with the mix buss plugin as it is the feed from the channel that drives the buss and it is the stereo sum of all the channels that lets the buss plugin emulate crosstalk.

its very clever, if a little confusing.

I don't think that is actually the case at all with VCC. The channel plugins are an insert on individual channels and the bus plugin acts on the (already) digitally summed signal so can only simulate crosstalk on the summed signal but not on the individual channels that are fed to the bus. The bus plugins are unaware of the channel plugins.

DamagedTrax · 04-10-2010 10:43pm

i agree that a final summing plugin would be an idea but the problem is that it would need to be multi-mono and the crosstalk on VCC onle works in a stereo instance so multi-mono would eliminate said crosstalk.

DamagedTrax · 04-10-2010 10:46pm

trackmixstudio wrote: »

I don't think that is actually the case at all with VCC. The channel plugins are an insert on individual channels and the bus plugin acts on the (already) digitally summed signal so can only simulate crosstalk on the summed signal but not on the individual channels that are fed to the bus. The bus plugins are unaware of the channel plugins.

you maybe right. i thought i read that grouping the channels and mix buss gets them "talking".

SonasRec · 04-10-2010 10:52pm

I've used VCC for the first time tonight.

Neve channel across most of the main tracks & buss across the mix. Results pretty subtle. I noticed increased bass presence, highs were tamed, added a little glue. I level matched the before and after mixes......... switching between the two, the VCC mix def sounds more analog.

DamagedTrax · 04-10-2010 11:06pm

SonasRec wrote: »

I've used VCC for the first time tonight.

Neve channel across most of the main tracks & buss across the mix. Results pretty subtle. I noticed increased bass presence, highs were tamed, added a little glue. I level matched the before and after mixes......... switching between the two, the VCC mix def sounds more analog.

basically its done what it claims to do.

theres a lot of people out there saying its too subtle but im not sure i understand what they were expecting!

DamagedTrax · 05-10-2010 12:26am

trackmixstudio wrote: »

I don't think that is actually the case at all with VCC. The channel plugins are an insert on individual channels and the bus plugin acts on the (already) digitally summed signal so can only simulate crosstalk on the summed signal but not on the individual channels that are fed to the bus. The bus plugins are unaware of the channel plugins.

from slate support

you need to use VCC has a whole system with the channel going into the mixbuss as they are a package deal if you are trying to replicate desk response.

i guess thats not saying one is dependent on the other but for final outcome it seems they're better used together.

digitaldeath · 06-10-2010 1:44pm

DamagedTrax wrote: »

from slate support

i guess thats not saying one is dependent on the other but for final outcome it seems they're better used together.

How much of a hog would it be on your system placing this plugin across all tracks?

DamagedTrax · 06-10-2010 1:54pm

digitaldeath wrote: »

How much of a hog would it be on your system placing this plugin across all tracks?

ive just ran a 96 track session with the vcc ssl on everytrack + 12 aux channels with vcc ssl mixbuss and with only those plugins active my cpu is at about 15%

thats on an i7 920 @ 3ghz in reaper.

so its actually very light on cpu and there are still cpu optimisations to be finished before it gets out of beta.

digitaldeath · 06-10-2010 4:32pm

DamagedTrax wrote: »

ive just ran a 96 track session with the vcc ssl on everytrack + 12 aux channels with vcc ssl mixbuss and with only those plugins active my cpu is at about 15%

thats on an i7 920 @ 3ghz in reaper.

so its actually very light on cpu and there are still cpu optimisations to be finished before it gets out of beta.

Nice! I'm assuming that there was audio or MIDI on all of these tracks with no stutter and not just a Dverb kind test? I'd also be interested in hearing a mix with and without Slate VCC (no other plugs to be used).

DamagedTrax · 06-10-2010 5:32pm

no it was a proper real world mix.

in deverb tests im getting to over 300 before i get bored of it but its not exactly a real test.

digitaldeath · 06-10-2010 5:45pm

DamagedTrax wrote: »

no it was a proper real world mix.

in deverb tests im getting to over 300 before i get bored of it but its not exactly a real test.

Sweet and chance you could post a clip with and without VCC?

DamagedTrax · 06-10-2010 6:05pm

digitaldeath wrote: »

Sweet and chance you could post a clip with and without VCC?

ill post a clip with when its finished but i mix into it so i wont be posting a clip without. it'd take me all day to balance the mix again.

PaulBrewer · 09-10-2010 6:15pm

There's an update there now.

madtheory · 10-10-2010 10:24am

seannash wrote: »

How do you guys rate the massey tape head saturation or even the logic saturation on the tape delay plug.

It's great. Modeled on an Echoplex, apparently! I use it a lot, but not all the time.

But tape does 3rd harmonic distortion (basically, brightness), transformers, transistors, valves etc. give 2nd harmonic (basically, warmth). So, again, VCC is unique.

Neurojazz · 20-10-2010 8:52am

Just got the demo today... failed in Ableton... ticket submitted... meh... was really looking forward to playing with this today.

20-10-2010 4:10pm

ya, im after clearing the credit card there today to get the beta while its still cheaper..

PaulBrewer · 20-10-2010 8:37pm

This seems a lot of fuss over something that is 'subtle' ..... or am I missing something ?

DamagedTrax · 20-10-2010 9:42pm

the neve and trident are anything but subtle. api and ssl are quite subtle but thats what people seem to want.

IMO after an ITB mix has gotten to a very high standard, its the subtilties that make it really start to open up and start sounding more "posh" (for want of a better word)...

PaulBrewer · 21-10-2010 12:37am

But surely that will leave it well down the list of things to buy for most people ?

DamagedTrax · 21-10-2010 12:56am

maybe it is a little nerdy and specialised but then again so are most engineers that are serious about their results.. so there's his market right there.

21-10-2010 9:36pm

I got it today there anyway..haven't had a chance to play with it yet..and ya paul, for me anyway..this is just the finishing touch..it kinda gets two birds stoned at once..subtle distortion/harmonics on each channel and the soft eq alterations..and just gets **** to gel..it wont really change my workflow at all, but ya..just the icing kinda..

SonasRec · 21-10-2010 10:57pm

PaulBrewer wrote: »

This seems a lot of fuss over something that is 'subtle' ..... or am I missing something ?

Mixed an album over the last few days and used VCC on every track . Very happy with the results. Glued the instruments together & softened the high end.

Was thinking about the 'subtle' thing. If i posted an ITB mix and a summed mix, would the difference be that huge?? I would have thought it would be fairly subtle.

Every upgrade I've made to mics, pre's & converters has upped the game a little.......If i have a mix that i'm 99% happy with, & VCC gives an extra little something, I'm happy to use it.

PaulBrewer · 22-10-2010 10:51am

Cool !

PaulBrewer · 22-10-2010 8:22pm

Can anyone post something with and without ?

Neurojazz · 22-10-2010 10:11pm

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Can anyone post something with and without ?

I'd love to

- but it's failed to install for Ableton

- waiting on support for a fix.

DamagedTrax · 22-10-2010 10:46pm

ill redo an old mix on sunday with it and post both then.

goatboy1000 · 23-10-2010 9:06am

I just got the demo and have mad drop-outs and clicks and pops. I tried to put it on every track and put the bus plugin on the busses but it won't play, I just get cpu overload errors.
I'm on an 8 core mac pro with PTHD8. It's a very normal mix, not very big by any stretch of the imagination and all my other plugins are TDM.
Anyone else have any problems like this?
Sounds lovely when it does play though...

SonasRec · 23-10-2010 9:40am

Not sure what the cpu overload messages are about, but just in case you don't know, the demo version cuts audio for a second every 10 or 15 seconds.

goatboy1000 · 23-10-2010 10:52am

Aah, that explains the dropouts so.
I can't figure out the cpu problem though...

DamagedTrax · 23-10-2010 5:31pm

goatboy1000 wrote: »

Aah, that explains the dropouts so.
I can't figure out the cpu problem though...

quite a few cpu problems here aswell, especially on the 4k model. trident and api are fine but the neve gets a touch messy when i start adding mix busses.

but its still only beta remember and slate has said that they need to optimise code before final release.

SonasRec · 28-10-2010 7:14pm

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Can anyone post something with and without ?

I've posted 2 examples here:

http://soundcloud.com/sonas-recording

See what you think.

PaulBrewer · 30-10-2010 8:50am

That's interesting Sonas - is that the only difference between the mixes ?

I see on mix 1 the waveform is much different on the VCC one .

Nice contrast of material too !

queenstonmusic · 30-10-2010 3:41pm

Hi SonicsRec. Your Mix 2 with VCC sounds quite good. Could you tell me what settings of the VCC you were using?

SonasRec · 30-10-2010 6:56pm

The only difference between the two is VCC. I've used the neve setting on every channel and the neve on the mix buss. No input adjust and no drive used.

I chose the two different mixes because they were so different.

Yeah Paul, I'm not mad about the look of those waveforms. Suppose it's the distortion and harmonics generated.

Any opinions? does it make a difference, good or bad?

PaulBrewer · 30-10-2010 7:25pm

No criticism implied !

The VCC versions both sounded superior to my lugs (though both mixes were grand beforehand !) .... listening on my laptop too.

17-11-2010 11:23pm

Ha..
I just got an email from slate digital today, saying that, as id splashed out for the beta, and they had said that for that id def get the full version, and due to piracy they're changing the protection to ilok2..they're gonna send anyone that bought the beta a new ilok..for absolutely nothing..

this is customer service people..

SonasRec · 18-11-2010 12:51am

Just got my email. Nice touch. Piracy must really be killing them.

hubiedubie · 03-03-2011 10:28am

I was about to pull the trigger on this for a current project but it' no longer available. I'll have to go with URS Classic Console Strip Pro. Any idea if it's any good?

just pulled the trigger on slate VCC

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