just pulled the trigger on slate VCC

DamagedTrax

this thing is amazing.

still a public beta so a few bugs to iron out but it sounds spot on.

ive never used a trident or API desk so i can only say the VCC versions sound lovely, warm and punchy but the 4k and neve are as close as it gets to the real thing.

ive ran a drum track processed thru the ssl in windmill and the same tracks ran thru the VCC channels and VCC mix buss and i actually had to phase reverse to really hear the differance and even then its marginal, certainly not what i expected :cool:

gonna do the same with the VCC neve and a few tracks recorded on a neve VR later (although i can only compare tone and warmth here as the 2 desks are totally differant models.)

also ran the VCC 4k on a reverb return (UAD emt 140) with a decent input drive. the reverb really opened right up and just sat better in the mix which is pretty outstanding considering how well the UAD 140 works just on its own.

Man, I want this...Looks impressive..

goatboy1000

Great stuff. Fantastic price too.
Have you tried the waves stuff? How well do you think they compare?

Neurojazz

Soooo cheap - will be looking into this

DamagedTrax

goatboy1000 wrote: »

Great stuff. Fantastic price too.
Have you tried the waves stuff? How well do you think they compare?

there's nothing to compare.

slate vcc is a console channel and mix buss emulation. waves have nothing similiar. they have emulations of hardware and some do emulate the effects of transistors etc in that hardware but vcc is purely dedicated to emulating the audio path - input saturation and drive, phase distortion, cross talk etc.

goatboy1000

Ah I see.
Being the lazy sod that I am, I never even checked the website properly to find out any info except the price.
I'll definitely give it a go, have an album to mix soon.
Thanks for pointing it out!

PaulBrewer

Any comparison to the URS chan ?

DamagedTrax

again no comparison. URS channel is a channel strip with EQ and comp emulations aswell is input saturation.

vcc has no compressors or eq per say. its just a pure audio signal from various desks. it emulates the input drive and saturation that a desk imparts from after the preamp and thru to the faders with eq and compressors set to zero.

aswell as the channel plugin theres also a stereo mix buss which also emulates saturation but also emulates crosstalk between channels and phase distortion.

obviously the overall affect is subtle and listening to say a kickdrum in isolation would definitly have you questioning whether it was actually doing anything at all. its only when you combine everything and mix into stereo groups and finally into a stereo master that you really hear the differances (which when done properly are certainly not subtle).

an idea would be to use the vcc neve emulation on a channel and then add the URS channel strip and select a neve compressor and eq.

PaulBrewer

DamagedTrax wrote: »

again no comparison. URS channel is a channel strip with EQ and comp emulations aswell is input saturation.

vcc has no compressors or eq per say. its just a pure audio signal from various desks. it emulates the input drive and saturation that a desk imparts from after the preamp and thru to the faders with eq and compressors set to zero.

aswell as the channel plugin theres also a stereo mix buss which also emulates saturation but also emulates crosstalk between channels and phase distortion.

obviously the overall affect is subtle and listening to say a kickdrum in isolation would definitly have you questioning whether it was actually doing anything at all. its only when you combine everything and mix into stereo groups and finally into a stereo master that you really hear the differances (which when done properly are certainly not subtle).

an idea would be to use the vcc neve emulation on a channel and then add the URS channel strip and select a neve compressor and eq.

So if one didn't use the Eq and Comp ?

I'm thinking if someone did own the URS is the VCC a necessary purchase.

DamagedTrax

since the input saturation on the URS strip is actually the compressor input saturation (even though it is not visibly part of the compressor section), if you decide not to use comp or eq models then all you have left is the input saturation on the compressor model that you're using, which is totally differant to what VCC models.

URS channel doesnt emulate the actual audio thru the channel, it only emulates the compressor and eqs that you shoose to place in it and it doesnt offer a differant channel or buss plugin for that very reason. in VCC the channel plugin needs to be used along with the mix buss plugin as it is the feed from the channel that drives the buss and it is the stereo sum of all the channels that lets the buss plugin emulate crosstalk.

its very clever, if a little confusing.

fitz

Just tried out the airwindows equivalent, channel2. Impressive free option for mac users!

trackmixstudio

I will check this out.
Slate seems to be on a roll these days with Trigger, then the Dragon comp then FG-X then VCC. I use trigger but didn't like FG-X when I demoed it.
I do a similar thing to the VCC using inserts in logic.
I use my ISA828 (8 channel) as inserts on the stereo drum, bass, guitar and vocal busses by sending out line levels to it and then back through its converters.
On the master bus I use an insert for DRS pre/eq and Drawmer 1968 compressor.
I have the bus levels matched so there is the same level with inserts on or off.
The difference is huge. If I bypass the inserts the whole energy of the mix drops and the stereo image collapses a bit.
This method allows total recall apart from the DRS eq and Drawmer comp settings whose settings get saved as a text file in the project folder.
When you set up an insert in Logic you "ping" the chain and it works out the delay and automatically compensates for it.
The VCC bus plugin probably simulates what my ISA /DRS is doing for real.
The only problem with my way and the VCC is that they are not summing but just acting on the stereo (already summed) bus. The next step would be to create a plugin that lets you group channels that get summed by a virtual bus. I haven't tried it but I believe Harrison mixbus does this but it runs as a separate program alongside the main DAW which puts me off it. http://www.harrisonconsoles.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=108&Itemid=42

On individual channels I use URS saturation which I LOVE.
First plugin on every track is 30IPS tape sim then sometimes British or American tranny. Only about 30% on the saturation slider. You can barely notice it when you solo a track but if you turn them all off there is a big difference. URS saturation is much better than CSP at this job. I just leave CSP on digital in but use saturation in front of it.

Hybrid mixing (combination of DAW and hardware) is the future and I am happy with how my method is working out for me.
If I have time this week I will bounce a mix with inserts on and off to demonstrate.

seannash

How do you guys rate the massey tape head saturation or even the logic saturation on the tape delay plug.

trackmixstudio

DamagedTrax wrote: »

in VCC the channel plugin needs to be used along with the mix buss plugin as it is the feed from the channel that drives the buss and it is the stereo sum of all the channels that lets the buss plugin emulate crosstalk.

its very clever, if a little confusing.

I don't think that is actually the case at all with VCC. The channel plugins are an insert on individual channels and the bus plugin acts on the (already) digitally summed signal so can only simulate crosstalk on the summed signal but not on the individual channels that are fed to the bus. The bus plugins are unaware of the channel plugins.

DamagedTrax

i agree that a final summing plugin would be an idea but the problem is that it would need to be multi-mono and the crosstalk on VCC onle works in a stereo instance so multi-mono would eliminate said crosstalk.

DamagedTrax

trackmixstudio wrote: »

I don't think that is actually the case at all with VCC. The channel plugins are an insert on individual channels and the bus plugin acts on the (already) digitally summed signal so can only simulate crosstalk on the summed signal but not on the individual channels that are fed to the bus. The bus plugins are unaware of the channel plugins.

you maybe right. i thought i read that grouping the channels and mix buss gets them "talking".

SonasRec

I've used VCC for the first time tonight.

Neve channel across most of the main tracks & buss across the mix. Results pretty subtle. I noticed increased bass presence, highs were tamed, added a little glue. I level matched the before and after mixes......... switching between the two, the VCC mix def sounds more analog.

DamagedTrax

SonasRec wrote: »

I've used VCC for the first time tonight.

Neve channel across most of the main tracks & buss across the mix. Results pretty subtle. I noticed increased bass presence, highs were tamed, added a little glue. I level matched the before and after mixes......... switching between the two, the VCC mix def sounds more analog.

basically its done what it claims to do.

theres a lot of people out there saying its too subtle but im not sure i understand what they were expecting!

DamagedTrax

trackmixstudio wrote: »

I don't think that is actually the case at all with VCC. The channel plugins are an insert on individual channels and the bus plugin acts on the (already) digitally summed signal so can only simulate crosstalk on the summed signal but not on the individual channels that are fed to the bus. The bus plugins are unaware of the channel plugins.

from slate support

you need to use VCC has a whole system with the channel going into the mixbuss as they are a package deal if you are trying to replicate desk response.

i guess thats not saying one is dependent on the other but for final outcome it seems they're better used together.

digitaldeath

DamagedTrax wrote: »

from slate support



i guess thats not saying one is dependent on the other but for final outcome it seems they're better used together.

How much of a hog would it be on your system placing this plugin across all tracks?

DamagedTrax

digitaldeath wrote: »

How much of a hog would it be on your system placing this plugin across all tracks?

ive just ran a 96 track session with the vcc ssl on everytrack + 12 aux channels with vcc ssl mixbuss and with only those plugins active my cpu is at about 15%

thats on an i7 920 @ 3ghz in reaper.

so its actually very light on cpu and there are still cpu optimisations to be finished before it gets out of beta.

digitaldeath

DamagedTrax wrote: »

ive just ran a 96 track session with the vcc ssl on everytrack + 12 aux channels with vcc ssl mixbuss and with only those plugins active my cpu is at about 15%

thats on an i7 920 @ 3ghz in reaper.

so its actually very light on cpu and there are still cpu optimisations to be finished before it gets out of beta.

Nice! I'm assuming that there was audio or MIDI on all of these tracks with no stutter and not just a Dverb kind test? I'd also be interested in hearing a mix with and without Slate VCC (no other plugs to be used).

DamagedTrax

no it was a proper real world mix.

in deverb tests im getting to over 300 before i get bored of it but its not exactly a real test.

digitaldeath

DamagedTrax wrote: »

no it was a proper real world mix.

in deverb tests im getting to over 300 before i get bored of it but its not exactly a real test.

Sweet and chance you could post a clip with and without VCC?

DamagedTrax

digitaldeath wrote: »

Sweet and chance you could post a clip with and without VCC?

ill post a clip with when its finished but i mix into it so i wont be posting a clip without. it'd take me all day to balance the mix again.

PaulBrewer

There's an update there now.

madtheory

seannash wrote: »

How do you guys rate the massey tape head saturation or even the logic saturation on the tape delay plug.

It's great. Modeled on an Echoplex, apparently! I use it a lot, but not all the time.

But tape does 3rd harmonic distortion (basically, brightness), transformers, transistors, valves etc. give 2nd harmonic (basically, warmth). So, again, VCC is unique.

Neurojazz

Just got the demo today... failed in Ableton... ticket submitted... meh... was really looking forward to playing with this today.

ya, im after clearing the credit card there today to get the beta while its still cheaper..

PaulBrewer

This seems a lot of fuss over something that is 'subtle' ..... or am I missing something ?

DamagedTrax

the neve and trident are anything but subtle. api and ssl are quite subtle but thats what people seem to want.

IMO after an ITB mix has gotten to a very high standard, its the subtilties that make it really start to open up and start sounding more "posh" (for want of a better word)...