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College Student releases ****-list power-point

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    #92
    liah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,750 ✭✭✭liah


    prinz wrote: »
    There's two issues. Legally there's no real come-back. She didn't technically break any laws that I am aware of. Morally and technically speaking yes she is at fault for the 'leak'.

    It would be like a doctor discussing a patient with his/her spouse, the spouse goes and tells 5 others and so on. Basically you are saying it's not the fault of the doctor. Actually it is. The doc may never have intended for the info to become widely known, but divulging the info at all to the spouse is the primary breach of trust. Intent doesn't really come into it in a case like this.

    Not quite the same thing.

    The doctor is only held liable for his words because in his profession there exists a pre-existing confidentiality contract.

    This list is a completely personal, non-professional thing. This is exactly like any male telling their mate about the chick they pulled last night and then the mate he told telling the chick. Exactly the same. And I guarantee you no one currently crying for this woman to be punished would consider a mate bragging about a chick he banged as "defamation." Yeah, it'd suck for the chick, but it just happens.

    Or what about a photo? What if you showed an embarrassing photo of yourself to a few friends, for whatever reason, and they decided to turn it into an internet sensation? It's hardly your fault for thinking you can trust your friends. It's their fault for breeching your trust.

    The only difference between this scenario and those ones is that it's written down. That's the only difference.

    She expressed a personal opinion based on personal experiences with certain men and told her friends about it. Her friends then decided to release it to the entire world via the internet. Not her.

    She's weird for writing it down, but she's definitely not responsible for spreading it to the internet.

    If you want your argument to stand it only makes sense if your argument is also that nobody should ever mention anything potentially offensive about another person to another human being, ever. And human nature doesn't work like that, we're social animals, we share with people we trust.


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    #93
    PeterIanStaker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭PeterIanStaker


    All I can say is - When's the movie of this with Megan Fox in it coming out?


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    #94
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    liah wrote: »
    If you want your argument to stand it only makes sense if your argument is also that nobody should ever mention anything potentially offensive about another person to another human being, ever. And human nature doesn't work like that, we're social animals, we share with people we trust.

    Yes we do.... and life experience tells us what kind of things we should share and what kind of things we should not share, and teaches us that those we think we can trust aren't always that trustworthy. Life experience also teaches us that if we break someone's confidence in us they won't be too happy about it... regardless of how that trust is broken or to how many people.

    I don't have a single friend who would discuss personal info of a gf or even a ONS with his friends, with regard to sexual preferences or acts peformed or anything of the kind. That's between you and the other person. It's a pathetic frat boy thing to do anyway.


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    #95
    Seosaimh77
    Registered Users Posts: 371 ✭✭Seosaimh77


    Gummy Panda wrote: »
    In Ireland, the burden would be on her to prove her statements are not false and that she isn't trying to lower a person in the eyes of society.
    No she wouldn't. Most of it is a description of a personal experience of what she likes/dislikes. No problem with any of that.

    The only remotely objective comments she made were regarding size - that is easily proved if all the lads get their, eh, lads out.:D


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    #96
    Logical Fallacy
    Registered Users Posts: 5,933 ✭✭✭Logical Fallacy


    Gummy Panda wrote: »
    She is still responsible.

    In Ireland, the burden would be on her to prove her statements are not false and that she isn't trying to lower a person in the eyes of society.

    Why , because she said someone was a **** lay?

    Come on.


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    #97
    sponsoredwalk
    Registered Users Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭sponsoredwalk


    prinz wrote: »
    There's two issues. Legally there's no real come-back. She didn't technically break any laws that I am aware of. Morally and technically speaking yes she is at fault for the 'leak'.

    It would be like a doctor discussing a patient with his/her spouse, the spouse goes and tells 5 others and so on. Basically you are saying it's not the fault of the doctor. Actually it is. The doc may never have intended for the info to become widely known, but divulging the info at all to the spouse is the primary breach of trust. Intent doesn't really come into it in a case like this.

    Haha :D Who knew it was immoral to have personal thoughts and to
    share them with friends :rolleyes:


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    #98
    liah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,750 ✭✭✭liah


    prinz wrote: »
    Yes we do.... and life experience tells us what kind of things we should share and what kind of things we should not share, and teaches us that those we think we can trust aren't always that trustworthy. Life experience also teaches us that if we break someone's confidence in us they won't be too happy about it... regardless of how that trust is broken or to how many people.

    I don't have a single friend who would discuss personal info of a gf or even a ONS with his friends, with regard to sexual preferences or acts peformed or anything of the kind. That's between you and the other person. It's a pathetic frat boy thing to do anyway.

    You're discussing morals, though. You don't know the life experiences she's had nor do you know the particular set of morals she subscribes to. She seems to have a very open view on sex and obviously has no problem discussing it with her friends in general if she was able to construct it in that form. Just because you feel it's wrong to discuss sexual experiences with your friends does not mean that your point of view is right or wrong, or that hers is right or wrong. Just means you obviously see things differently.

    You don't have a single friend like that because people surround themselves with people who have similar viewpoints to themselves. Doesn't mean those people don't exist. I'm sure there's loads of people out there who have no problem discussing experiences.

    Legally, though, she has done nothing wrong. If her sharing information with her friends is defamation then it seriously blurs some lines. Where does it stop? How do you define exactly what you can share and what you can't? It's not realistic.

    Her friends breeched her trust by spreading it. She was responsible for writing it down, yes, but she was NOT responsible for them (the men) finding out about it and therefore shouldn't have any legal repercussions. Again, where do you draw the line on defamation, then?


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    #99
    sponsoredwalk
    Registered Users Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭sponsoredwalk


    Sex being a fiendishly private moral issue, who's talking religion eh? :p


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    #100
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    liah wrote: »
    You're discussing morals, though. You don't know the life experiences she's had nor do you know the particular set of morals she subscribes to. She seems to have a very open view on sex and obviously has no problem discussing it with her friends in general if she was able to construct it in that form. Just because you feel it's wrong to discuss sexual experiences with your friends does not mean that your point of view is right or wrong, or that hers is right or wrong. Just means you obviously see things differently.

    Is it morally wrong to murder someone? Or do we accept that other people have an open view on it? I presume you take the same stance when guys secretly tape girls and send the movie to 3 friends 'in confidence' do you?
    liah wrote: »
    Her friends breeched her trust by spreading it. She was responsible for writing it down, yes, but she was NOT responsible for them finding out about it....

    She wrote up her little thesis, prepared it and distributed it. It spread out of her control and further than she may have intended yes, but that doesn't excuse her initial 'project' to discuss intimate details with others.


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    #101
    melekalikimaka
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 10,686 Mod ✭✭✭✭melekalikimaka


    fair play... ifound it hilarious... i'd buy the book... hardback, not even softback


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    #102
    t4k30
    Closed Accounts Posts: 116 ✭✭t4k30


    This has been happening in UCD for years ! Jesus people are always grading each other, the fact some one wrote down a grading system, doesnt make it any worse. Stop over reacting !


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    #103
    Logical Fallacy
    Registered Users Posts: 5,933 ✭✭✭Logical Fallacy


    prinz wrote: »
    Is it morally wrong to murder someone?

    Depends on the circumstances. And plenty of people would have no moral issue with murdering someone, this is why murder occurs.


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    #104
    sponsoredwalk
    Registered Users Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭sponsoredwalk


    prinz wrote: »
    Is it morally wrong to murder someone? Or do we accept that other people have an open view on it? I presume you take the same stance when guys secretly tape girls and send the movie to 3 friends 'in confidence' do you?

    So far we've had a woman who sleeps around equated with being a
    skanky whore who leads men to commit suicide and a murderer,
    anything else you prudish people want to insinuate?


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    #105
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,111 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Oh and lads, they're clearly lying, size does matter.:pac:

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #106
    Seosaimh77
    Registered Users Posts: 371 ✭✭Seosaimh77


    liah wrote: »
    Legally, though, she has done nothing wrong.

    Her friends breeched her trust by spreading it. She was responsible for writing it down, yes, but she was NOT responsible for them (the men) finding out about it and therefore shouldn't have any legal repercussions. Again, where do you draw the line on defamation, then?
    I agree that she didn't do anything wrong because I dont think that there is anything defamatory in her remarks. She is allowed to express herself about her personal experiences.

    But, if she had said anything defamatory, she would be responsible, even if her friends were the ones who put it on the internet. eg, if I tell my friends that MR X is a murderer, and that rumour gets out, it would be my fault as I started the rumour - I made the first defamatory statement. My friends may be liable too (depending on the circumstances) but I would definitely be liable.

    But as I said, I dont think there is anything defamatory about what she did say so it's fine


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    #107
    sponsoredwalk
    Registered Users Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭sponsoredwalk


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Oh and lads, they're clearly lying, size does matter.:pac:

    What other social taboo's are going to be brokan? Oh my fragile little mind :(


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    #108
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,111 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    sponsoredwalk wrote: »
    What other social taboo's are going to be brokan? Oh my fragile little mind :(
    In no particular order or gender... Yes I would prefer if you had a smaller arse, more interesting friends, bigger dick, smaller gut, more money, wore less makeup, didnt snore, didnt just lay there in bed, had less ear hair, oh and I fancy your mate and think of him/her when we're shagging. :D

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #109
    baltimore sun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 483 ✭✭baltimore sun


    she took off points if there were from Canada....:D:D


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    #110
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    Logical Fallacy wrote: »
    Depends on the circumstances. And plenty of people would have no moral issue with murdering someone, this is why murder occurs.

    Thank you for reinforcing my point, that yes morals do have a part in a discussion on someone else's actions, which counters the idea that because people have different morals they all balance out and morality itself becomes irrelevant.
    sponsoredwalk wrote: »
    So far we've had a woman who sleeps around equated with being a skanky whore who leads men to commit suicide and a murderer, anything else you prudish people want to insinuate?

    Sleeping around is her business. Making personal info public without other's consent is nothing to do with prudishness. It's basic ignorance and immaturity on her part. THAT is what people are holding her to account for. I couldn't care less if she slept with 1 or 1000, she erred in making this stupid powerpoint presentation and sharing it with others.


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    #111
    Haarlz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 48 ✭Haarlz


    I wish someone did that around here..It would be a nice warning ha:)


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    #112
    sponsoredwalk
    Registered Users Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭sponsoredwalk


    prinz wrote: »
    Thank you for reinforcing my point, that yes morals do have a part in a discussion on someone else's actions, which counters the idea that because people have different morals they all balance out and morality itself becomes irrelevant.

    :confused::confused::confused:

    The concept of morality is irrelevant as well because of what this girl did :eek:


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    #113
    liah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,750 ✭✭✭liah


    Prinz, this isn't a moral issue-- your own personal views on sex (between consenting adults; comparing it to murder is the most retarded thing I've heard yet in this thread and totally discredits any point you've made thus far imo) don't come into it.

    For me this is far more about freedom of speech than any SUBJECTIVE moral viewpoint such as sex.

    Where is the line between defamation and sharing with mates you thought you could trust? That's what pisses me off. Fine, chastise her for making what you subjectively feel to be something amoral and sharing it with her friends, but don't go pretending that just because you disagree with her feelings that it's suddenly the law. It's not.

    She wrote honestly, not all the reviews were bad, and she only wrote from personal experience. She shared it only with her friends. I ask you where on earth you plan to draw the line on what can or cannot be shared while taking your own SUBJECTIVE moral viewpoint completely out of the equation.

    Do not further insult yourself by comparing it to murder or violence again, please, it does nothing for either side of the argument.

    Also please don't compare it to people being filmed in sex acts against their will, what she wrote about was clearly between two consenting adults.


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    #114
    WindSock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    I wish someone did that around here..It would be a nice warning ha


    I had a sexual encounter with this poster. It was bloody awful, she just lay there like a corpse. Not that I don't mind corpses, but corpses at least manage to stay quiet while I am getting on with the munging. This wan wouldn't shut up about her new diet and the X Factor. Not a great experience over all 3/10 and an extremely hairy minge to boot (which I did by her kinky request)


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    #115
    Haarlz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 48 ✭Haarlz


    WindSock wrote: »
    I had a sexual encounter with this poster. It was bloody awful, she just lay there like a corpse. Not that I don't mind corpses, but corpses at least manage to stay quiet while I am getting on with the munging. This wan wouldn't shut up about her new diet and the X Factor. Not a great experience over all 3/10 and an extremely hairy minge to boot.

    Mmmmm thats nice


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    #116
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    liah wrote: »
    Prinz, this isn't a moral issue-- your own personal views on sex (between consenting adults; comparing it to murder is the most retarded thing I've heard yet in this thread and totally discredits any point you've made thus far imo) don't come into it.

    Get a grip and read what I wrote.
    liah wrote: »
    Fine, chastise her for making what you subjectively feel to be something amoral and sharing it with her friends, but don't go pretending that just because you disagree with her feelings that it's suddenly the law. It's not.

    Could you enlighten me as to where I did that? :confused: Was it when I wrote this perhaps...
    prinz wrote:
    There's two issues. Legally there's no real come-back. She didn't technically break any laws that I am aware of. Morally and technically speaking yes she is at fault for the 'leak'
    liah wrote: »
    Do not further insult yourself ..

    Wise words, live by them.
    liah wrote: »
    Also please don't compare it to people being filmed in sex acts against their will, what she wrote about was clearly between two consenting adults.

    So the guys gave their consent to be featured in this presentation did they? Just like someone being filmed didn't give consent to be recorded on film...


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    #117
    sponsoredwalk
    Registered Users Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭sponsoredwalk


    liah wrote: »
    Prinz, this isn't a moral issue-- your own personal views on sex (between consenting adults; comparing it to murder is the most retarded thing I've heard yet in this thread and totally discredits any point you've made thus far imo) don't come into it.

    For me this is far more about freedom of speech than any SUBJECTIVE moral viewpoint such as sex.

    Where is the line between defamation and sharing with mates you thought you could trust? That's what pisses me off. Fine, chastise her for making what you subjectively feel to be something amoral and sharing it with her friends, but don't go pretending that just because you disagree with her feelings that it's suddenly some absolute moral law. It's not.

    She wrote honestly, not all the reviews were bad, and she only wrote from personal experience. She shared it only with her friends. I ask you where on earth you plan to draw the line on what can or cannot be shared while taking your own SUBJECTIVE moral viewpoint completely out of the equation.

    Do not further insult yourself by comparing it to murder or violence again, please, it does nothing for either side of the argument.

    Also please don't compare it to people being filmed in sex acts against their will, what she wrote about was clearly between two consenting adults.

    I think that's what you mean because he'll just use the excuse he already said the girl didn't break the law & I feel he'll cop out from responding to the actual point you're making.


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    #118
    sponsoredwalk
    Registered Users Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭sponsoredwalk


    prinz wrote: »
    So the guys gave their consent to be featured in this presentation did they? Just like someone being filmed didn't give consent to be recorded on film...


    No, but the girl didn't set out to make this thing public either, did she?
    She sent it to her friends, i.e. she kept it personal and her friends
    breached her trust. It is not her fault this went public. If she had openly
    published this then I think you'd have an argument but under the present
    circumstances you haven't.


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    #119
    sponsoredwalk
    Registered Users Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭sponsoredwalk


    I told you what he'd do, he'd avoid the point you were making! :D Classic!


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    #120
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    sponsoredwalk wrote: »
    No, but the girl didn't set out to make this thing public either, did she? She sent it to her friends, i.e. she kept it personal and her friends breached her trust. It is not her fault this went public. If she had openly published this then I think you'd have an argument but under the present circumstances you haven't.

    It doesn't matter who she sent it to. The fact is she sent it to other people. After that what they do with it is irrelevant. The information came from her.
    sponsoredwalk wrote: »
    I told you what he'd do, he'd avoid the point you were making! :D Classic!

    I'm sorry I am not pyschic. I may need your help translating in future.


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    #121
    Logical Fallacy
    Registered Users Posts: 5,933 ✭✭✭Logical Fallacy


    prinz wrote: »
    Thank you for reinforcing my point, that yes morals do have a part in a discussion on someone else's actions, which counters the idea that because people have different morals they all balance out and morality itself becomes irrelevant.

    I'm not reinforcing your point, I am merely answering a question that you asked, you are interpreting my answer as a reinforcement of your point.

    Personally i don't think morals come into it, but that's just me. Keeping a record or sharing it with someone is not an invasion of someones privacy. Social code means whatever we say or do with another can be passed on....I imagine the blokes in question turned around to at least one friend and indicated a sexual encounter with her, it just that they may have done so verbally instead of in text.

    The issue here lies with the friend that broke trust and sent it onwards, that's about it. Anyone who says anything else is largely arguing a dead point.


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