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Virginia Executes Woman with IQ of 72

245

Comments

  • #32
    Local-womanizer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,798 ✭✭✭Local-womanizer


    liah wrote: »
    I don't get this case at all.

    The woman plotted to kill them, but didn't actually.

    The men who did kill them, however, only got the life sentence.

    Meanwhile the woman who only plotted but outside of that, did nothing, gets killed? :confused:

    Can someone explain this a little better? Why are the murderers not on trial? Why was her case of plotting murder worth breaking 100 years of no capital punishment? Why was HER crime so heinous that it was brought back?

    I'm clearly missing something.

    She conspired with 2 men to have her husband and Stepson murdered for personal gain. She then sat for 45 minutes in the house while her husband slowly bled to death before calling the authorities. She also paid for the weapons and Ammo used in the shootings,as well as leaving the door to the house unlock for the gunmen.

    Also any medical evaluation said she was not mentally retarded.

    If it wasnt for her,no murders would have taken place.

    Why the gunmen received a life sentence? I can only guess because they co-operated with the authorities in the case.


  • #33
    Uriel.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,059 ✭✭✭Uriel.


    liah wrote: »
    I don't get this case at all.

    The woman plotted to kill them, but didn't actually.

    The men who did kill them, however, only got the life sentence.

    Meanwhile the woman who only plotted but outside of that, did nothing, gets killed? :confused:

    Can someone explain this a little better? Why are the murderers not on trial? Why was her case of plotting murder worth breaking 100 years of no capital punishment? Why was HER crime so heinous that it was brought back?

    I'm clearly missing something.

    Liah I imagine it's a case of the two hitmen turning state's evidence and testifying against her. In return the State Prosecutor obviously took the death sentence off the table for them and reduced it to life incarceration.

    IN the US, the girl who was executed was found guilty of a crime punishable by capital offence. The prosecuting state attorney pushed for the death penalty. I would very much say that behind the scenes the reason for pushing for capital punishment was because she had a US soldier killed in order to claim his life insurance (provided by the army as he was to be deployed). American's, as you know, take great pride in their armed forces and the prosecutor's office (possibly local politicians and the jury and maybe even a good proportion of the public) clearly felt aggrieved by what happened.


  • #34
    LarrytheLantern
    Closed Accounts Posts: 176 ✭✭LarrytheLantern


    she was tried and found guilty by a jury of her peers.
    they were presented with the FACTS. we were not.
    we can only speculate and guess as to what those facts were/are.

    i have no problem with this verdict.

    Justice has been served.


  • #35
    Uriel.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,059 ✭✭✭Uriel.


    LarrytheLantern wrote: »
    she was tried and found guilty by a jury of her peers.
    they were presented with the FACTS. we were not.
    we can only speculate and guess as to what those facts were/are.

    i have no problem with this verdict.

    Justice has been served.

    I don;t think anyone in this thread has disputed facts. I think the debate circles around the punishment rather than the trial or book of evidence.


  • #36
    thebaz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,227 ✭✭✭✭thebaz


    ScumLord wrote: »

    Americans don't really believe injections or any other method of execution they use is really all that humane. It's well known the most humane way to kill any animal is through inert gas which causes no suffering. But Americans that support the execution don't want murderers and the like to have a comfortable death. They like the thought of the person suffering but don't actually want to have to see too much suffering.

    do you get a choice how you die - I'd select firing squad - no feckin around with poison or fires - what do they use in Switzerland, at that place where you can die early ?


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  • #37
    PeakOutput
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,638 ✭✭✭PeakOutput


    i have no problem with a debate on teh death penalty personally i have nothing really against it although if one innocent person is put too death it is too much

    BUT

    arguing that she should be given clemency because of her iq is an absolute joke. unless she is mentally disabled which she clearly isnt she knows the difference between right and wrong and was found guilty in a court of law and sentenced accordingly.

    arranging and paying two people to come into your home, opening the door for them and then not ringing the police for 45mins after the fact is murder and it sounds like she deserved what she got


  • #38
    Luka Tight Pedal
    Posts: 81,308 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Luka Tight Pedal


    PaddyBomb wrote: »
    Because any person I seen using the word "awesome" looked mentally retarded.

    lol :rolleyes:


    I have to agree with MM - I feel she shouldn't have been executed because the death penalty is wrong, not because of her IQ.


  • #39
    PeakOutput
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,638 ✭✭✭PeakOutput


    thebaz wrote: »
    do you get a choice how you die - I'd select firing squad - no feckin around with poison or fires - what do they use in Switzerland, at that place where you can die early ?

    no method is instant. after being shot in the chest or even beheaded you are still very much alive for at least a few seconds after it happens

    as far as i know lethal injection is started with a sedative so you are asleep or so out of it you cant feel or comprehend anything. it definitely seems like the most painless way choice if you ever had to make that decision


  • #40
    Uriel.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,059 ✭✭✭Uriel.


    thebaz wrote: »
    do you get a choice how you die - I'd select firing squad - no feckin around with poison or fires - what do they use in Switzerland, at that place where you can die early ?

    some state's you can choose but it is a minority now. Someone was recently killed by Firing Squad but in that state the law has changed and you can no longer select that option. But the guy in question had selected it before the law changed.


  • #41
    Uriel.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,059 ✭✭✭Uriel.


    PeakOutput wrote: »
    no method is instant. after being shot in the chest or even beheaded you are still very much alive for at least a few seconds after it happens

    as far as i know lethal injection is started with a sedative so you are asleep or so out of it you cant feel or comprehend anything. it definitely seems like the most painless way choice if you ever had to make that decision

    You would think so but absolutely not. There is a history of extremely difficult and painful (and awareness) deaths using the lethal injection method.

    It's far far far from the ideal/humane/painless solution you might think


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  • #42
    Uriel.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,059 ✭✭✭Uriel.


    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=66469859#post66469859


  • #43
    ScumLord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,787 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    thebaz wrote: »
    do you get a choice how you die - I'd select firing squad - no feckin around with poison or fires - what do they use in Switzerland, at that place where you can die early ?
    I think many terminal ill patients will often be killed by the amount of morphine their using to overcome the pain they're in.

    There was a story on here recently enough where some guy in America was able to choose to a firing squad but I think that loop hole is closed now.


  • #44
    Mrmoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭Mrmoe


    I don't see what her IQ has do with this? Why is it relevant? She understood what she was doing, it was cold and calculated murder. People would not be arguing over her IQ if she was locked up in prison for life and is merely an attempt to attack the death penalty.


  • #45
    -Trek-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,139 ✭✭✭-Trek-


    LarrytheLantern wrote: »
    she was tried and found guilty by a jury of her peers.
    they were presented with the FACTS. we were not.
    we can only speculate and guess as to what those facts were/are.

    i have no problem with this verdict.

    Justice has been served.

    What kind of justice do you refer to? bible justice maybe? an eye for an eye?
    PeakOutput wrote: »
    as far as i know lethal injection is started with a sedative so you are asleep or so out of it you cant feel or comprehend anything. it definitely seems like the most painless way choice if you ever had to make that decision
    That is what they want you to believe, but unfortunately anybody who has had the treatment isn't here to tell if that is actually true.

    Death penalty stinks, its not justice its state sanctioned murder / revenge killing. Really wish the Americans ideas of justice and punishment would get with the times.


  • #46
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,810 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    I think my IQ is about 72 today, twice i read the thread title as "virgin executes woman" I blame arthurs day.
    Apparently the most painless way to execute someone is in a decompression chamber, don't think anywhere does it though.


  • #47
    Uriel.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,059 ✭✭✭Uriel.


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    I think my IQ is about 72 today, twice i read the thread title as "virgin executes woman" I blame arthurs day.
    Apparently the most painless way to execute someone is in a decompression chamber, don't think anywhere does it though.

    Asphyxiation? was previously done in some States in America but not any more.


  • #48
    PeakOutput
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,638 ✭✭✭PeakOutput


    Trekmad wrote: »

    That is what they want you to believe, but unfortunately anybody who has had the treatment isn't here to tell if that is actually true.

    they dont need to be here to tell us how it feels,science is pretty accurate about these things. the previous poster suggested that it was painfull because intravenous drug users suffer more due to a lack of good veins, im not an intravenous drug user so barring human error i fail to see how this method can be so painful
    Death penalty stinks, its not justice its state sanctioned murder / revenge killing. Really wish the Americans ideas of justice and punishment would get with the times.

    its not revenge although im sure the family of the victims feel like it is revenge. it is the state trying to protect its citizens from the future actions of a murderer.

    once you deliberately and illegally take another human beings life you have no right to the protection of your life anymore and the state has every right to treat you as they see fit for the protection of the rest of society. weather this be life in prison or execution i dont care but the moment you went threw with murder is the moment you give up every other right imo


  • #49
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Personally I think death by snu snu is the most humane way.


    Giggidy!


  • #50
    Uriel.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,059 ✭✭✭Uriel.


    PeakOutput wrote: »
    they dont need to be here to tell us how it feels,science is pretty accurate about these things. the previous poster suggested that it was painfull because intravenous drug users suffer more due to a lack of good veins, im not an intravenous drug user so barring human error i fail to see how this method can be so painful



    its not revenge although im sure the family of the victims feel like it is revenge. it is the state trying to protect its citizens from the future actions of a murderer.

    once you deliberately and illegally take another human beings life you have no right to the protection of your life anymore and the state has every right to treat you as they see fit for the protection of the rest of society. weather this be life in prison or execution i dont care but the moment you went threw with murder is the moment you give up every other right imo

    The lethal injection is not administered by medical practitioners, for one. And it really doesn't matter that YOU are not an IV drug user. A large % of people who ultimately suffer the faith of death by lethal injection have been or are IV Drug users. My previous post and link catalogs some of the excruciating executions that have gone wrong as a result.


  • #51
    Flojo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,172 ✭✭✭Flojo


    PeakOutput wrote: »
    its not revenge although im sure the family of the victims feel like it is revenge. it is the state trying to protect its citizens from the future actions of a murderer.

    once you deliberately and illegally take another human beings life you have no right to the protection of your life anymore and the state has every right to treat you as they see fit for the protection of the rest of society. weather this be life in prison or execution i dont care but the moment you went threw with murder is the moment you give up every other right imo

    Exactly and why should tax payers have to pay for them being cold calculated murderers, rid the planet of the scum... also over crowding in prisons if a major issue!
    I just wish the justice system could be more accurate in who they execute to prevent innocent people being sent to death row, ie only choose it for people once they have the facts set in stone along with a confession maybe!


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  • #52
    Carlos_Ray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 685 ✭✭✭Carlos_Ray


    38 males executed in USA so far this year. How many made the news or got people talking? One female is executed and suddenly everybody is expressing their disgust.

    Plus I don't see how the fact that she is more intelligent than the average woman is relevant to the issue....


  • #53
    Columbia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,494 ✭✭✭Columbia


    She was found criminally responsible for the crimes, which means that she has enough faculties to tell the difference between right and wrong, as well as to plot the deaths of two innocent people.

    Just because someone has a low IQ doesn't mean they can do no wrong.


  • #54
    SV
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,533 ✭✭✭SV


    Carlos_Ray wrote: »
    Plus I don't see how the fact that she is more intelligent than the average woman is relevant to the issue....

    IBL




    in before liah


  • #55
    Flojo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,172 ✭✭✭Flojo


    SV wrote: »
    IBL




    in before liah


    Lets all burn our bras! :pac:


  • #56
    LarrytheLantern
    Closed Accounts Posts: 176 ✭✭LarrytheLantern


    her sex ought NOT to be the issue, nor should her IQ level (unless she were deemed totally mentally retarded, which she were not).
    also the facts of the case are not in doubt, so it seems the only thing folk are arguing about is, should she have been executed or not?

    personally i do not like the death penalty, but there are certain crimes (ie crimes against children, &/or where unspeakable cruelty has been used), which if proven beyond all doubt (and it would need to be 100% imo) should attract the death penalty.

    where we are dealing with these type of crimes, then i would not lose a minutes sleep if the perpetrators were hung, poisoned, electrocuted or stoned, although personally i would favour hanging as it's the cheapest and we are in a recession.


  • #57
    Nulty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,843 ✭✭✭Nulty


    Uriel. wrote: »
    Lethal injection is (often) not a nice way to go.

    Crazy that the two hitmen weren't given the death penalty as well. I guess they provided the the evidence that convicted her.

    I've heard that about the LI before too. There are 3 injections. One paralyses you, the other knocks you out and the combination of the third kills you. I think there were reports that its impossible to tell if the knock out one has worked because the paralysing one means there is no indication from the 'victim'. With out the knock out one the person feels intense pain as they die. Don't quote me on this, this is all off the top of my non-medical head.

    Conspiracy to commit murder was always far more serious in the States than the actual act of murder.


  • #58
    Nulty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,843 ✭✭✭Nulty


    LarrytheLantern wrote: »
    her sex ought NOT to be the issue, nor should her IQ level (unless she were deemed totally mentally retarded, which she were not).
    also the facts of the case are not in doubt, so it seems the only thing folk are arguing about is, should she have been executed or not?

    personally i do not like the death penalty, but there are certain crimes (ie crimes against children, &/or where unspeakable cruelty has been used), which if proven beyond all doubt (and it would need to be 100% imo) should attract the death penalty.

    where we are dealing with these type of crimes, then i would not lose a minutes sleep if the perpetrators were hung, poisoned, electrocuted or stoned, although personally i would favour hanging as it's the cheapest and we are in a recession.

    Her IQ does have everything to do with it. Just because she is not a cabbage doesn't mean that she is capable of defending herself from manipulation. She should have been put in the zoo or something.

    IMO


  • #59
    -Trek-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,139 ✭✭✭-Trek-


    PeakOutput wrote: »
    its not revenge although im sure the family of the victims feel like it is revenge. it is the state trying to protect its citizens from the future actions of a murderer.

    once you deliberately and illegally take another human beings life you have no right to the protection of your life anymore and the state has every right to treat you as they see fit for the protection of the rest of society. weather this be life in prison or execution i dont care but the moment you went threw with murder is the moment you give up every other right imo
    I was never defending the crime, but I definitely do not in believe that putting people down like common dogs is protecting citizens from future murders as you put it. There are others means of administrating justice/punishment that would be more effective, for example life with hard labour where the convicted can have plenty of time to think of their crime.
    But aside from all that how effective is the Death penalty? its not like its curtailing the murder rate! so obviously it doesn't work as a deterrent and IMO merely acts as satisfaction for the public's primitive cry for blood to be shed.
    Flojo wrote: »
    Exactly and why should tax payers have to pay for them being cold calculated murderers, rid the planet of the scum... also over crowding in prisons if a major issue!
    I just wish the justice system could be more accurate in who they execute to prevent innocent people being sent to death row, ie only choose it for people once they have the facts set in stone along with a confession maybe!
    Don't even know how to respond to that comment :rolleyes:


  • #60
    goose2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,798 ✭✭✭goose2005


    RMD wrote: »
    The US think they've a high horse on the moral matter of the death sentence simply because they do it in a "humane" way. There is no humane way in execution, it's barbaric. Stoning is horrible, but just because the US use lethal injection doesn't make them any form of authority on the matter.
    What they mainly object to is the fact that they stone people for things like adultery and renouncing Islam.

    Flojo wrote: »
    She actually did! "Lewis admitted organising the slaying of her husband Julian and his son Charles to claim their life insurance premiums."
    Sounds clever enough to me. Couldn't she just have, you know, got the IQ test questions wrong on purpose?


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  • #61
    Flojo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,172 ✭✭✭Flojo


    Trekmad wrote: »
    Don't even know how to respond to that comment

    Oh wow I have a different opinion to you... shock horror! :rolleyes:

    goose2005 wrote: »
    Sounds clever enough to me. Couldn't she just have, you know, got the IQ test questions wrong on purpose?

    Yeah exactly she could have done that easily... even her lawyer stated that she does not have learning difficulties... she's just close to the mark!


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