Government wants a 50% increase in interantional students coming to study in Ireland

KerranJast · 22-09-2010 03:13PM

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

I agree that the free fees was brought in to allow more access to lower income families and students who may normally have never had the means to go to college, and that is what it did, it has been very successful in getting more and more people to college.

More and more middle class people. There was a report done recently that showed that there's only been a slight increase in the numbers of disadvantaged kids going to 3rd level since fees came in.

The main reason? Middle class parents are able to use the money saved from not having to pay fees to fund private 2nd level fees and/or college accommodation.

The Waltzing Consumer · 22-09-2010 03:14PM

Wertz wrote: »

I take it you've heard of consumption taxes...

Overall, people from working classes pay a higher % of their annual income than those in high earning/high tax bracket employment, mainly because of a high VAT rate and secondary/stealth/double taxation. Higher bracket earners may pay more physical money, but it may not make up the same % of their earnings by the time you take everything into account.

I see what you are saying, even though I disagree with you. It is a bit of a tangent from college places though. I just don't see why people want the majority of people, who have paid the most tax, pay for college fees too. You talk about double taxation, do you think it is fair for a high tax paying family to pay fees for college, even though their taxes have already paid for it?

The Waltzing Consumer · 22-09-2010 03:20PM

KerranJast wrote: »

More and more middle class people. There was a report done recently that showed that there's only been a slight increase in the numbers of disadvantaged kids going to 3rd level since fees came in.

The main reason? Middle class parents are able to use the money saved from not having to pay fees to fund private 2nd level fees and/or college accommodation.

Why is there only a slight increase? It is not because of free fees. It may be the way the CAO works but that is a different issue. The free fees is available to everyone, whether they get the place seems to be a matter for the CAO right?

I don't really see how some parent who is paying rent for their kid at college has any impact on how well a disadvantage kid does in his leaving cert and the CAO procedures? Can you explain that to me? Usually renting college accomadation happens after the leaving cert which determines your college place.

Euro_Kraut · 22-09-2010 03:22PM

Jesus, if the Govt said tomorrow that they liked puppies some people would be complaining about it.

We have nothing to fear from more highly intelligent foreigners coming to our University and raising standards.

Additionally a lot of these new students will be coming to learning English in language schools. There is big money to be made here and its not like we are displacing Irish students.

Even broken clocks tell the right-time twice a day. The Govt might have got this one right.

goose2005 · 22-09-2010 03:25PM

starbelgrade wrote: »

But as we all know, Fianna Fail will not change this any time soon, as they know who votes for them at the polls.. and it's not the working classes.

Yes it is. Why do you think they put a huge increase on the dole every year, especially election years? (It was only about €100 ten years ago)

amacachi · 22-09-2010 03:35PM

Wertz wrote: »

I take it you've heard of consumption taxes...

Overall, people from working classes pay a higher % of their annual income than those in high earning/high tax bracket employment, mainly because of a high VAT rate and secondary/stealth/double taxation. Higher bracket earners may pay more physical money, but it may not make up the same % of their earnings by the time you take everything into account.

Unless the "higher" earners are hoarding their cash then they'll be faced with the same percentage consumption taxes as well as the income taxes to begin with, which in my mind works out higher than those who pay no income tax and should be mainly spending money on food with no VAT on it.

KINGVictor · 22-09-2010 10:03PM

medicman2009 wrote: »

Not a rant, I do my frequent ranting in R&R I'm afraid. Could you not see my point in my OP? Obviously not, so I'll spell it out for you. The Irish government have stated they are going to offer up more student places to international students. Yet they expect us to believe that this won't be to the detriment of potential Irish student places?

Typical short term view of course, ''Ah sure, we'll get a few pound from them.'' Now there is a stronger likelihood that if we educate our Irish kids and give them the tools they need, then they'll hopefully remain in their homeland. No guarantee of course, but it’s logical to assume more likely.

So in the long term, the country will undoubtedly benefit by preventing an Irish 'brain drain'. But then I suppose, we have a Government that never can see the bigger picture or long term view. Hence the sh1te this country is now in.

I dont agree with you. On the contrary, the Irish government does a lot to facilitate its student population access to education. Unlike most OECD countries, disadvantaged Irish students are given grants to attend college in other to help them cope with the financial implications of attending third level institutions. Public discourse including this forum indicate that this system is repeatedly abused and this grants are in actual fact utilised for other purposes.

A typical Irish student pays under a €1000 for fees in my college while international students pay about €10,000 for the same facilities (on campus) and tuition.

It is right to say that education should be subsidised for nationals but it is also correct that this institutions cannot survive from government funding alone , hence the need to admit foreign students ( although it is noteworthy that this will not be the primary or sole reason, as the colleges/universities need a diversified and vibrant body of students).

I watched the RTE news yesterday and a correspondent interviewed a Chinese student that intended coming to UCD , her family had to budget about €50000 for the year - for fees , accomodation and living expences. We have to remember that she had a choice of going to other competitor countries that presumably have better educational reputations and standards. Universities/colleges in the US, Uk, Australia etc spend considerable amount of capital in attracting foreign students both for funding and for portfolio reasons, I honestly dont see any reason why Ireland should be different , especially with the knowledge-based economy rhetoric.

bobblepuzzle · 22-09-2010 10:16PM

International Students pay their own fees... so what don't you get OP?? Its about the almighty $dollar$ euro! Always has been, always will be...

Overheal · 22-09-2010 10:26PM

medicman2009 wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0922/students_strategy.html

Oh really, Irish Government?

Fcuk You.

The amount of paperwork I had to file for a student visa each year of college turned out to be ridiculous. Right down to having to show them my bank accounts, and proof of residence when you're a student is not as straightforward as it first sounds. I won't blame them for the job market crash, but it is what it is.

They could have kept me but noooo. I buy your goods and services, pay your VAT, pay the college fees and still get treated like a stranger when I go in for visa. I had enough of it.

Snowie · 22-09-2010 10:41PM

MmM the government have to lower another 3 billion of this years budget,
International students have to pay for there fees its only logical to attract them as they pay money... and the governement dont.... makes sence....

southsiderosie · 22-09-2010 11:02PM

Archeron wrote: »

Wonder how the foreign students will feel about this when they hear the statistics that we have the highest murder rate of young men in Europe, and the second biggest problem with knife killings.

Though, in fairness they are probably just coming over for the weather.

Um, if they are attracting students from the US, I'd say Ireland is an improvement, crime-wise anyway.

medicman2009 wrote: »

Not a rant, I do my frequent ranting in R&R I'm afraid. Could you not see my point in my OP? Obviously not, so I'll spell it out for you. The Irish government have stated they are going to offer up more student places to international students. Yet they expect us to believe that this won't be to the detriment of potential Irish student places?

Typical short term view of course, ''Ah sure, we'll get a few pound from them.'' Now there is a stronger likelihood that if we educate our Irish kids and give them the tools they need, then they'll hopefully remain in their homeland. No guarantee of course, but it’s logical to assume more likely.

So in the long term, the country will undoubtedly benefit by preventing an Irish 'brain drain'. But then I suppose, we have a Government that never can see the bigger picture or long term view. Hence the sh1te this country is now in.

I don't understand what you are so worked up about. Fee paying students subsidize non-fee paying students in every university system in the world. Since the Irish government doesn't charge fees (which is absurd), they have to look outside to subsidize the students within the system. OR YOU CAN PAY FEES.

In addition, the Irish government is paying for people to go to university who then turn around and work in the UK, Canada or Australia. I.e., they are subsidizing the workforce training of other countries. At least this way they aren't subsidizing other nation's human capital development.

Overheal wrote: »

Oh really, Irish Government?

Fcuk You.

The amount of paperwork I had to file for a student visa each year of college turned out to be ridiculous. Right down to having to show them my bank accounts, and proof of residence when you're a student is not as straightforward as it first sounds. I won't blame them for the job market crash, but it is what it is.

They could have kept me but noooo. I buy your goods and services, pay your VAT, pay the college fees and still get treated like a stranger when I go in for visa. I had enough of it.

AMEN. :mad::mad::mad:

DonJose · 22-09-2010 11:03PM

Archeron wrote: »

we have the highest murder rate of young men in Europe, and the second biggest problem with knife killings.

In Soviet Russia we kill with fork!!!

Government wants a 50% increase in interantional students coming to study in Ireland

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