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"Maynooth Students' Union Snubs Hanafin Visit"

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13

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    #62
    funky penguin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,352 ✭✭✭funky penguin


    Glad to hear things went well. Look forward to seeing it on the news tonight.


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    #63
    CnaG
    Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭CnaG


    Will it be on the 6 o'clock news on rte do you think? Is there someway someone could record and upload it? I don't think I'll be around a telly at 6...


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    #64
    banquo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,487 ✭✭✭banquo


    Check tv3 too.


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    #65
    LeixlipRed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,081 ✭✭✭LeixlipRed


    I heard that people involved in the SU were actively trying to discourage certain protestors from "making a scene" as such today. I wasn't there but I am curious to here their side of the story.


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    #66
    Alt_Grrr
    Registered Users Posts: 665 ✭✭✭Alt_Grrr


    LeixlipRed wrote: »
    I heard that people involved in the SU were actively trying to discourage certain protestors from "making a scene" as such today. I wasn't there but I am curious to here their side of the story.

    It was members of the SWP and FEE looking to high-jack the protest.


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    #67
    LeixlipRed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,081 ✭✭✭LeixlipRed


    High-jack it? By protesting with extra gusto is it? Who's protest was it to hijack by the way? And if you're not supportive of FEE then why the hell were you protesting?


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    #68
    LeixlipRed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,081 ✭✭✭LeixlipRed


    Also I'd like to comment on the silent protest idea. What a load of rubbish. To me that sounds like influence from on high, ok lads, you can have your protest but remember not to make a scene. I'd like to here Aengus's views on this considering I remember previous protests were he was quite vocal in getting his point across. Why the sudden change of approach?


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    #69
    Alt_Grrr
    Registered Users Posts: 665 ✭✭✭Alt_Grrr


    LeixlipRed wrote: »
    High-jack it? By protesting with extra gusto is it? Who's protest was it to hijack by the way? And if you're not supportive of FEE then why the hell were you protesting?

    I'm not an Anarchist nor do I agree with the element present in FEE that pushes for Civil Disobedience/criminal activity.
    Also this Protest was organised by the SU, a group that keeps itself separate from FEE.
    LeixlipRed wrote: »
    Also I'd like to comment on the silent protest idea. What a load of rubbish. To me that sounds like influence from on high, ok lads, you can have your protest but remember not to make a scene. I'd like to here Aengus's views on this considering I remember previous protests were he was quite vocal in getting his point across. Why the sudden change of approach?

    To be fair to Aengus, he now has to be a grown up.
    And you have to play the game. If it wasn't an orderly protest, then it would have been moved on somewhere else out of way.

    To be fair to Hanafin, she came over, introduced herself to him and listened to Aengus' four points for the protest. And he made them well. Even though someone from the SWP insisted on yelling at her as he was speaking.

    That is a better outcome then any amount of yelling would have achieved. And we even had one of the new honorary doctorates come and lend his support.


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    #70
    Alt_Grrr
    Registered Users Posts: 665 ✭✭✭Alt_Grrr


    LeixlipRed wrote: »
    Who's protest was it to hijack by the way? ?

    The Student Unions, SWP nor FEE didn't attempt to organise there own demonstration.


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    #71
    LeixlipRed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,081 ✭✭✭LeixlipRed


    Hold on a second, the SWP is not an anarchist organisation, nor does it promote violence. What the hell are you going on about?? Wanting a non-silent protest is neither civilly disobedient nor criminal. And you can shout slogans,etc, while being orderly. Just like we did during the national strike when we all shared the picket together. Your post makes my head hurt to be honest.


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    #72
    Alt_Grrr
    Registered Users Posts: 665 ✭✭✭Alt_Grrr


    LeixlipRed wrote: »
    Hold on a second, the SWP is not an anarchist organisation, nor does it promote violence. What the hell are you going on about?? Wanting a non-silent protest is neither civilly disobedient nor criminal. And you can shout slogans,etc, while being orderly. Just like we did during the national strike when we all shared the picket together. Your post makes my head hurt to be honest.

    NO, not SWP. (Forget about them for 1 second)
    You asked if I didn't support FEE, why was I at the protest?

    and my comments are with regard to FEE (The on-campus organisation)


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    #73
    CnaG
    Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭CnaG


    The SU keeps itself seperate from FEE? True, they aren't affiliated, but they work together. And it's a mistake to think of them as seperate entities. There's a crossover between the SU and FEE (just as there is a crossover between FEE and the SWP) in that the members of FEE are students, and so members of the SU, and so as entitled to be there as any of the protestors.

    As I understand it, it *was* the SWP who were shouting in the main.


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    #74
    LeixlipRed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,081 ✭✭✭LeixlipRed


    I misread the first part, apologies. The SWP organised it's own protest, I received a facebook invitation over a week ago. Everyone arrives, they start chanting, SU heads start getting sweaty. It's a joke, they have a right to chant whatever the hell they want. And a silent protest (unless the numbers partaking are massive) is cringeworthy tbh. The bottom line here, like all politicians, the elected reps have had to tone down their militancy upon stepping up to the plate.


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    #75
    LeixlipRed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,081 ✭✭✭LeixlipRed


    CnaG wrote: »
    As I understand it, it *was* the SWP who were shouting in the main.

    As is their right and fair play to them for not towing the line. I'd love to hear the rationale for a silent protest. Maybe the lads were expecting 2 million students to turn out and we'd all lie down on the ground and hum Kumbaya with our inside voices :rolleyes:


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    #76
    CnaG
    Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭CnaG


    I think the rationale was that a wall of silent students would be more dignified and come across more grown-up than being obnoxious would. Silence would also have been unexpected. As someone observed earlier, protesting quietly actually let Aengus make the points for the students to the minister. If everyone had been bellowing, I don't think Mary Hannifan would have come over.

    You can question the effectiveness of a silent protest - it was all a charade of course, but in fairness, isn't nearly every protest a charade? Even the noisy ones. This one at least didn't get anyone removed off campus or locked up.


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    #77
    Alt_Grrr
    Registered Users Posts: 665 ✭✭✭Alt_Grrr


    LeixlipRed wrote: »
    As is their right and fair play to them for not towing the line. I'd love to hear the rationale for a silent protest. Maybe the lads were expecting 2 million students to turn out and we'd all lie down on the ground and hum Kumbaya with our inside voices :rolleyes:

    There was a very small turn out for the SWP, 5 by my count.
    There was a smaller turn out for FEE.

    and the Silent Protest was at best 50+ -ish.

    The chanting was fairly short lived. to be honest.


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    #78
    CnaG
    Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭CnaG


    Alt_Grrr wrote: »
    There was a smaller turn out for FEE.

    A lot of them were working. It still being the holidays.


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    #79
    LeixlipRed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,081 ✭✭✭LeixlipRed


    More dignified or just a completely pointless gesture? Like Mary Hanafin even made a mental note of the points Aengus made to her. A hostile reception would be a better indication to those in power of the nature of public feeling towards those currently incumbent in the Dail. Anyway, it's all pointless anyway, those FF/FG/Labour wasters will ignore it all no matter what.


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    #80
    irish_goat
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 5,778 Mod ✭✭✭✭irish_goat


    LeixlipRed wrote: »
    Anyway, it's all pointless anyway, those FF/FG/Labour wasters will ignore it all no matter what.

    Why bother protesting then...?


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    #81
    Alt_Grrr
    Registered Users Posts: 665 ✭✭✭Alt_Grrr


    I would tend to disagree.
    Hanafin at least heard the concerns of the group gathered,
    Rather then heard personal attacks on her and her party.

    The slient protest also got some minor publicity and journalists seemed more interested in the protest then the proceedings.
    And its up to the public to make sure that these concerns are heard when election time comes.

    Personally I'm not going to paint all parties with the same brush, but there still is some hope of improving the conditions for students. its just important to continue to voice your concerns.

    and besides, the human brain better processes information transmitted at normal volume, rather then yelled. (I swear some lecturers here seem to think the opposite)


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    #82
    J.D.R
    Registered Users Posts: 2,200 ✭✭✭J.D.R


    LeixlipRed wrote: »
    More dignified or just a completely pointless gesture? Like Mary Hanafin even made a mental note of the points Aengus made to her. A hostile reception would be a better indication to those in power of the nature of public feeling towards those currently incumbent in the Dail. Anyway, it's all pointless anyway, those FF/FG/Labour wasters will ignore it all no matter what.

    So, you're saying, if the protesters had have been shouting at her instead of presenting their argument in a clear, reasonable, and polite way, she would have been more likely to listen?

    Also, which do you think looked better to TV3 and RTE, a representative of the SU speaking to Mary Hannifan one to one, or a group of students shouting at her as she bypassed them completely to get to her car?

    Just a side question, who are FEE and SWP?


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    #83
    CnaG
    Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭CnaG


    You know, it's very easy to call something pointless. Everything and nothing is pointless, when you think about it. I don't want to get into this conversation too much (I'm sure the SU can defend themself here) but personally I think the SU made a good point today. I think the SWP could have picked their time and place to make a show of themselves better. But from what I hear, the 'snub' was as effective as a protest of 30 people on campus could hope to be.

    If there's one thing I think the SU should probably do, it's sit down with the various parties involved and have a kind of debriefing about the protest. They should talk it out with to try make sure tensions aren't unneccesarily created as a result of the differing ideologies of its participants. And during the semester, a Union Council should be called to discuss protests/actions before they take place so there is at least some sort of working consensus between everyone who attends.

    (Offers self as a fairly impartial facilitator)


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    #84
    Alt_Grrr
    Registered Users Posts: 665 ✭✭✭Alt_Grrr


    J.D.R wrote: »
    So, you're saying, if the protestpors had have been shouting at her instead of presenting their argument un a clear, reasonable, and polite way, she would have been more likely to listen?

    Just a side question, who are FEE and SWP?

    FEE is Free Education for Everyone
    a small and loose knit campaign group on campus

    SWP is the Socialist Workers Party
    a rather larger, national party


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    #85
    CnaG
    Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭CnaG


    The SWP are the Socialist Workers Party (a national party, perhaps better known as People Before Profit and the Right To Work Campaign). A lot of people on the left dislike them, for whatever reason. I think it's because they tend to turn up at protests and mass leaflet, almost like they're pretending they organised the whole thing.

    FEE are Free Education for Everyone. They're a network of students across the universities which were really in their prime the year before last. The removal of fees from the political agenda for the time being in 2009 kind of pulled the rug from under their feet nationally, but Maynooth FEE was quite strong up until the end of last year. FEE organised the protest against Bertie Ahern getting the honorary doctorate, with assistance from Labour Youth. Their members also campaigned to try get Maynooth to rejoin USI last year.

    I could go on, but hopefully that's enough info?


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    #86
    Alt_Grrr
    Registered Users Posts: 665 ✭✭✭Alt_Grrr


    J.D.R wrote: »
    Also, which do you think looked better to TV3 and RTE, a representative of the SU speaking to Mary Hannifan one to one, or a group of students shouting at her as she bypassed them completely to get to her car?

    Well she talked to the protesters on the way in, while a rather worried John Hughes looked on.

    Afterwards she left by the back door...
    TV3 was waiting for her to leave.


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    #87
    LeixlipRed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,081 ✭✭✭LeixlipRed


    irish_goat wrote: »
    Why bother protesting then...?

    There are alternatives to those 3 parties. That's my whole point.


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    #88
    LeixlipRed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,081 ✭✭✭LeixlipRed


    J.D.R wrote: »
    So, you're saying, if the protesters had have been shouting at her instead of presenting their argument in a clear, reasonable, and polite way, she would have been more likely to listen?

    Also, which do you think looked better to TV3 and RTE, a representative of the SU speaking to Mary Hannifan one to one, or a group of students shouting at her as she bypassed them completely to get to her car?

    Just a side question, who are FEE and SWP?

    If you read my post you'll clearly see I point out that she is unlikely to listen either way. And who cares what the national media think? They're not paid to think or interpret events, they're paid to report the news objectively.


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    #89
    J.D.R
    Registered Users Posts: 2,200 ✭✭✭J.D.R


    LeixlipRed wrote: »
    If you read my post you'll clearly see I point out that she is unlikely to listen either way. And who cares what the national media think? They're not paid to think or interpret events, they're paid to report the news objectively.

    Which is a better headline

    "Government minister heckled by protesters"
    or
    "TD talks with protesters over problems with 3rd level education"


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    #90
    LeixlipRed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,081 ✭✭✭LeixlipRed


    The first for me. This government is wanted out of office by the majority of the people in this country. We certainly aren't going to talk them down :)


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    #91
    TouchingVirus
    Registered Users Posts: 8,584 ✭✭✭TouchingVirus


    Alt_Grrr wrote: »
    Well she talked to the protesters on the way in, while a rather worried John Hughes looked on.

    Afterwards she left by the back door...
    TV3 was waiting for her to leave.

    Shoulda seen the faces when Prof Gabler took one of your placards and there were photos taken. I'd well imagine there were a few "WTF" thoughts from some people ;)


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