Knockanally Golf Club in Kildare

Jimdagym · 08-09-2010 11:34AM #1

http://www.golfmanagementnews.com/news/2010/070910.html

ANGLO IRISH BANK TAKE POSSESSION OF KNOCKANALLY GOLF CLUB IN KILDARE
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Allied Irish Banks (AIB) has taken possession of Knockanally GC, in Co Kildare, Ireland. The bank has appointed a receiver over the club, which is set on 125 acres outside Naas. The move came just days after the company’s creditors met to appoint a liquidator.

Tom Kavanagh, founding partner of insolvency specialists Kavanagh Fennell, has been installed as receiver over Ferndale Leisure, the holding company behind Knockanally. The club continues to trade, and the receiver is currently working with the club’s committee to make arrangements for its future.

A spokesman for AIB said the bank did not comment on individual clients.

Ferndale has been in financial difficulty for some time, and recently appointed a liquidator. This prompted AIB to foreclose on the company, as it held a charge over the course. The club is owned by businessman Noel Lyons, who held most of the company’s ‘A’ shares. However, members had an option to buy shares in the club.

In its most recent accounts, for 2008, the company said that trading at a loss was “not sustainable”, and the board was determined to reach break even or better. “The present recession will make it extremely difficult to achieve this objective, and reducing costs will be essential if the objective is to be met,” said its company filings.

This is just the latest in a series of high-profile Irish golf courses to be seized by lenders. In July, Irish Nationwide Building Society appointed a receiver over the €60m Moyvalley hotel and golf resort, also in Co Kildare, as well as a related course in Co Westmeath, the New Forest GC. The €100m Heritage Golf Hotel and Spa in Co Laois, has also gone into receivership.

f22 · 08-09-2010 11:39AM

Strange it mentions Anglo in the title and AIB in the copy?

Jimdagym · 08-09-2010 11:51AM

f22 wrote: »

Strange it mentions Anglo in the title and AIB in the copy?

Never copped that. Good spot.

fonda · 08-09-2010 11:56AM

Playing it on Saturday, wonder what condition its in?

Jimdagym · 08-09-2010 11:58AM

fonda wrote: »

Playing it on Saturday, wonder what condition its in?

Make sure and report back on Saturday after your round.

ziggy · 08-09-2010 12:11PM

This post has been deleted.

fonda · 08-09-2010 12:26PM

Jimdagym wrote: »

Make sure and report back on Saturday after your round.

Yeah will do, played it last year and really enjoyed it, was in great nic as far as I remember.

Glencarraig · 08-09-2010 08:25PM

They probably took control of this to give Seanie somewhere to play, he was probably blackballed in Greystones when was made bankrupt !!

bridestream · 08-09-2010 08:48PM

Lets get the facts right regarding Knockanally!

1. It went into liquidation at the behest of the shareholders i.e. its members.
2. Mr John Mcstay was appointed liquidator.
3. Next day Allied Irish Bank (not Anglo Irish) appointed a Receiver.
4. Mr Noel Lyons, the founder of the course 25 years ago, no longer owned
the course. He sold approx 510 of the 600 shares available in the operating
company Ferndale Leisure plc.
4. There are presently in excess of 400 members and the joint Gents and
Ladies committees are in negotiations with the Receiver & Liquidator and
are trying to put a plan in place to keep Knockanally operating as a golf
course.
5. Reasons it got into financial difficulty were
(a) 5 of the town houses development remain unsold;
(b) membership dropped from 540 in 2009 to 408 this year - recession!
6. The course is presently in good condition - I take the point regarding
some of the T boxes which need work done on them.
Fingers crossed we (Knockanally) - yes, I am a member - can continue as a golf course.

Unglika Norse · 08-09-2010 09:30PM

bridestream wrote: »

Lets get the facts right regarding Knockanally!

1. It went into liquidation at the behest of the shareholders i.e. its members.
2. Mr John Mcstay was appointed liquidator.
3. Next day Allied Irish Bank (not Anglo Irish) appointed a Receiver.
4. Mr Noel Lyons, the founder of the course 25 years ago, no longer owned
the course. He sold approx 510 of the 600 shares available in the operating
company Ferndale Leisure plc.
4. There are presently in excess of 400 members and the joint Gents and
Ladies committees are in negotiations with the Receiver & Liquidator and
are trying to put a plan in place to keep Knockanally operating as a golf
course.
5. Reasons it got into financial difficulty were
(a) 5 of the town houses development remain unsold;
(b) membership dropped from 540 in 2009 to 408 this year - recession!
6. The course is presently in good condition - I take the point regarding
some of the T boxes which need work done on them.
Fingers crossed we - yes, I am a member - can continue as a golf course.

Great Now that it is a members club I hope they mange to pull it off and keep it open, and the sooner the courses that are not members clubs and are being run by the banks close the better a chance you will have.

fonda · 09-09-2010 09:23AM

bridestream wrote: »

Lets get the facts right regarding Knockanally!

1. It went into liquidation at the behest of the shareholders i.e. its members.
2. Mr John Mcstay was appointed liquidator.
3. Next day Allied Irish Bank (not Anglo Irish) appointed a Receiver.
4. Mr Noel Lyons, the founder of the course 25 years ago, no longer owned
the course. He sold approx 510 of the 600 shares available in the operating
company Ferndale Leisure plc.
4. There are presently in excess of 400 members and the joint Gents and
Ladies committees are in negotiations with the Receiver & Liquidator and
are trying to put a plan in place to keep Knockanally operating as a golf
course.
5. Reasons it got into financial difficulty were
(a) 5 of the town houses development remain unsold;
(b) membership dropped from 540 in 2009 to 408 this year - recession!
6. The course is presently in good condition - I take the point regarding
some of the T boxes which need work done on them.
Fingers crossed we (Knockanally) - yes, I am a member - can continue as a golf course.

Hopefully ya's can survive, as I said above played it last year and it was in great nick, very reasonably priced at the time too. Have recommended it to friends and in other boards posts in the past.

conno16 · 09-09-2010 10:00AM

never heard of this place

again effective marketing is the key to survival I feel
do they do green fees?

ozymandias10 · 09-09-2010 12:48PM

bridestream wrote: »

Lets get the facts right regarding Knockanally!

1. It went into liquidation at the behest of the shareholders i.e. its members.
2. Mr John Mcstay was appointed liquidator.
3. Next day Allied Irish Bank (not Anglo Irish) appointed a Receiver.
4. Mr Noel Lyons, the founder of the course 25 years ago, no longer owned
the course. He sold approx 510 of the 600 shares available in the operating
company Ferndale Leisure plc.
4. There are presently in excess of 400 members and the joint Gents and
Ladies committees are in negotiations with the Receiver & Liquidator and
are trying to put a plan in place to keep Knockanally operating as a golf
course.
5. Reasons it got into financial difficulty were
(a) 5 of the town houses development remain unsold;
(b) membership dropped from 540 in 2009 to 408 this year - recession!
6. The course is presently in good condition - I take the point regarding
some of the T boxes which need work done on them.
Fingers crossed we (Knockanally) - yes, I am a member - can continue as a golf course.

Good news at least..keep the faith and ye will have a nice members club and in years to come ye might look back and think this was actually a positive thing

f22 · 09-09-2010 01:03PM

conno16 wrote: »

never heard of this place

again effective marketing is the key to survival I feel
do they do green fees?

Perhaps you don't fit their effective marketing profile. If that changes perhaps they will have run ads during RTE's The Den to target you directly.

conno16 · 09-09-2010 01:50PM

f22 - have you received some text messages or postal flyers about the course?
are they on teetimes.ie?
Do they stick a sneaky add in the back of the times every now and then..

this whole mentality of build it and they will come is embarrassing and further highlights the fact that most golf courses are clueless from a business perspective

the build it and they will come mentality might work in certain countries
unfortunately ireland seems to have applied this logic extensively during the 2000's and as a result most people live within 20 mins of a golf course today

i look forward to your enlightened response as ever

Yours truly,
connor

slumped · 09-09-2010 02:04PM

conno16 wrote: »

f22 - have you received some text messages or postal flyers about the course?
are they on teetimes.ie?
Do they stick a sneaky add in the back of the times every now and then..

this whole mentality of build it and they will come is embarrassing and further highlights the fact that most golf courses are clueless from a business perspective

the build it and they will come mentality might work in certain countries
unfortunately ireland seems to have applied this logic extensively during the 2000's and as a result most people live within 20 mins of a golf course today

i look forward to your enlightened response as ever

Yours truly,
connor

At long last, some sense from Conno! (and we now know your name is Connor!)

Absolutley spot on. Clubs think just because we are here, then we will be grand.

Knockanally, however, do market themselves well - to their core markets.

Societies ( i am secretary of one and get regular emails)
Online - (i get emails for opens etc.)
In local papers - (I live in Kildare and often see ads in press for them)

You don't need full page ads in nationals to have a effective campaign.

S

f22 · 09-09-2010 02:08PM

have you received some text messages or postal flyers about the course?
They don't have my mobile number so pretty difficult to contact me. In terms of postal flyers, unless they would deliver to the whole of Dublin and Kildare counties at senseless cost I never would receive anything.

are they on teetimes.ie?
No idea, I never use the site

Do they stick a sneaky add in the back of the times every now and then.
Read the news online so can't comment

this whole mentality of build it and they will come is embarrassing and further highlights the fact that most golf courses are clueless from a business perspective
I actually agree with you

the build it and they will come mentality might work in certain countries
unfortunately ireland seems to have applied this logic extensively during the 2000's and as a result most people live within 20 mins of a golf course today
Location is one of the major deciding factors in joing a club for most people

i look forward to your enlightened response as ever
Glad I can help you through your day

conno16 · 09-09-2010 08:18PM

ok this issue seems to have been put to bed.

agreed location is key
no reason why a club cant advertise though - use a bit of imagination to keep costs down and get the optimum return

sounds like if ur not a society organiser the onus is on the typical bloke to source out a course..
this is most different to forms of entertainment / leisure that i am familiar with

niall147 · 09-09-2010 09:02PM

Knockanally is one of the unsung heros of golf in Leinster- unpretentious, good honest test of golf, usually in excellent condition and reasonable cost. It predates the celtic tiger clubs and fingers crossed it will survive. Hopefully the members can buy it out It would be an awful loss.
niall

WHIP IT! · 09-09-2010 09:46PM

niall147 wrote: »

Knockanally is one of the unsung heros of golf in Leinster- unpretentious, good honest test of golf, usually in excellent condition and reasonable cost. It predates the celtic tiger clubs and fingers crossed it will survive. Hopefully the members can buy it out It would be an awful loss.
niall

+1, great course and a nice atmosphere any time I was there. In fact, it's been too long since my last visit.

conno16 · 09-09-2010 09:59PM

did you forget about it or something?

give them ur mobile number so you can get messages when they have comps on etc

dunmurry springs have taken an aggressive approach to this and it has payed off

koheim · 10-09-2010 02:52PM

I am also a member, only joined 2 year ago, but I do not think the club has a very bright future.
The thing going for it is mainly a very good and loyal members base and a course with a decent layout, but since it opened in the mid eighties not much has been upgraded. The overall drainage is very poor and most of the greens are in desperate need of an upgrade (only the 10th and 18th has had work done to it since the start).
Clubhouse is also an issue, the old mansion house is grand, but in a very poor state..

Hovewer, the land can't really be used for anything else than golf, so I am sure there will be played golf here in years to come. The big question now is at what cost? New sustainable subscriptions is to be decided and I have heard talks in the 1500 Euro region. If this is the case I doubt there will many members left next years. But I guess this is very much up to AIB..

So what are the options for me if Knockanally doesn't work out? Living in Celbridge, Knockanally is only 20 minutes away so that is very handy. I am not interested in paying much more than 1000 Euro a year, so currently looking at:
- Rathcore (best value, and best course around)
- Edenderry (great value, know some members and friendly enviroment)
- Moyvalley (a white elephant, but one of my favourite courses)
- Co. Meath
- Kilcock
any others?

Ko_

Tin_Cup · 10-09-2010 03:56PM

Would love to know how long some of these courses (in receivership etc) will remain open ? Surely its only a matter of time before some of them close? I'm a member of one at the and am unlikely to be shelling out any membership fees to a club with no future next year.

Gonna move this post to a new topic. Didnt mean to stray

Unglika Norse · 10-09-2010 09:48PM

koheim wrote: »

I am also a member, only joined 2 year ago, but I do not think the club has a very bright future.
The thing going for it is mainly a very good and loyal members base and a course with a decent layout, but since it opened in the mid eighties not much has been upgraded. The overall drainage is very poor and most of the greens are in desperate need of an upgrade (only the 10th and 18th has had work done to it since the start).
Clubhouse is also an issue, the old mansion house is grand, but in a very poor state..

Hovewer, the land can't really be used for anything else than golf, so I am sure there will be played golf here in years to come. The big question now is at what cost? New sustainable subscriptions is to be decided and I have heard talks in the 1500 Euro region. If this is the case I doubt there will many members left next years. But I guess this is very much up to AIB..

So what are the options for me if Knockanally doesn't work out? Living in Celbridge, Knockanally is only 20 minutes away so that is very handy. I am not interested in paying much more than 1000 Euro a year, so currently looking at:
- Rathcore (best value, and best course around)
- Edenderry (great value, know some members and friendly enviroment)
- Moyvalley (a white elephant, but one of my favourite courses)
- Co. Meath
- Kilcock
any others?

Ko_

Well for one I wouldn't join either rathcore ( overated imo) or moyvalley ( great course but probably unsustainable) as they are propriotory courses so you have no say in the running of the course, and are subject to the fees which are outside of your control. Edenderry Co.Meath & Kilcock are members clubs, but If it was me I'd stay with Knockanally and do a deal to pay the sub over 12 months. As you say they already have a very good loyal membership base and in essence that what clubs are about, and if they can do a deal that is what will see them through,

bridestream · 11-09-2010 10:51AM

Re Knockanally and its future.
There is an EGM of the members next Tuesday 14th Sept at 8pm.
It is being held at The Hamlet, Johnstown Bridge.
We can expect a report which will include the approx cost to keep the club operational.
Important as many of the 400 membership as possible attend.

conno16 · 11-09-2010 11:07AM

best of luck with that.

Unglika Norse · 12-09-2010 02:54AM

conno16 wrote: »

best of luck with that.

A rarity this but to quote conno best of luck, Now just make sure everyone gets off of their arse to make it work. You are at this moment in time masters of your own destiny if you can cut a deal with the bank.

bridestream · 12-09-2010 06:16PM

Thanks for replies and kind words.
However Knockanally needs investment - about 500,000 in the stately old house - it is a listed bulding plus another 1.5 mil for course improvements such as new T boxes and greens and badly needed improved drainage.
Knockanally was ok compared to the competition up to about 10/12 years ago. It has since been passed out by most courses in the catchment area such as Killeen, Craddockstown, Castlewarden, Beech Park, Naas & Co Meath (Trim) and newcomers Rathcore, Carton & Millicent.
Fact is golfers expectations and standards to-day will not accept 3rd rate courses when there are so many top rate ones such as those I've listed available.
Incidentally, with respect to the comments comparing privately owned courses to member owned, remember Knockanally has been member owned and operated for over 10 years and look where we are now!
Meanwhile I'll keep you posted as to the outcome.

sheelbee · 14-09-2010 11:18AM

bridestream wrote: »

Thanks for replies and kind words.
However Knockanally needs investment - about 500,000 in the stately old house - it is a listed bulding plus another 1.5 mil for course improvements such as new T boxes and greens and badly needed improved drainage.
Knockanally was ok compared to the competition up to about 10/12 years ago. It has since been passed out by most courses in the catchment area such as Killeen, Craddockstown, Castlewarden, Beech Park, Naas & Co Meath (Trim) and newcomers Rathcore, Carton & Millicent.
Fact is golfers expectations and standards to-day will not accept 3rd rate courses when there are so many top rate ones such as those I've listed available.
Incidentally, with respect to the comments comparing privately owned courses to member owned, remember Knockanally has been member owned and operated for over 10 years and look where we are now!
Meanwhile I'll keep you posted as to the outcome.

The best of luck today I hope you can come to some arrangement with the banks. On a related track, from experience money invested in a club house is a wasted resource (see all the white elephants). Golfers go to play golf not to admire the club house: Invest in the course, scrutinse your machinery and if purchasing new equipment "look beyond the obvious" there is great value to be had out there if you look. Keep us posted.

bridestream · 15-09-2010 12:07PM

At Tuesday's EGM a new Management Committee was voted in and it will negotiate with the AIB appointed Receiver how to protect Knockanally's future as a golf course.
To prevent the Receiver/Bank putting the course into 'mothballs', as allegedly stated by the Receiver, the membership has to come up with 500 Euro each, payable in two instalments, 1st Oct and 1st Jan, to cover Receiver calculated expenses, for the 6 months ending 31st March 2011.
If this extra funding excercise is successful, negotiations will begin with Receiver/Bank to come up with a formula to keep the course open on a permanent basis.
However, indications from the Receiver/Bank is, they will not agree to a lease!
It's all to play for, I guess!
I wonder how many more courses are having similar financial difficulties just now?

Trampas · 15-09-2010 12:39PM

All the best with it. I say you will find it hard for all members to pay an extra €500.

I presume you will be running some fund raising events

Knockanally Golf Club in Kildare

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